Time for Change

Discussion in 'Featured' started by Felon82, September 22, 2019.

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  1. Spurporter Active Member

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    That is valid point. We do not know Poch abilities. He is facing arguably the most difficult time in his tenure at Spurs and his coaching career. He must be given a chance to right the ship, play youth, get competition going internally for playing time and other things that are at his disposal. He, obviously has not started new project yet. He must prove he's another Alex or Arsen. I still root for him.


     
  2. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Well-Known Member

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    Dear me - looks like we're getting some posts from lads that are totally at odds with the majority. Absolutely nothing wrong with a differing point of view but let's have reasonable thought put forward instead of just screaming that we're mad and "ya gotta support yer team or p*ss off and follow someone else". Hardly a debate is it. My position is abundantly clear - I'm with the majority: at the moment totally disenchanted with the team I've followed for 61, sometimes good but more frequently average to poor, years and I do take issue with some grammar-challenged people posting thinly disguised abuse that lacks any form of constructive argument. Like Spurs, you can surely do better - can't you ??
     
    Last edited: September 23, 2019
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  3. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    It’s good to see some counter arguments coming although based on deluded thinking.What does surprise me is I had a comment refused because I said that I wanted some of what Spurporter was on but a foul mouthed rant from Keith Allen is allowed.I criticise Tottenham when I think it is justified but there is no way I would dream of supporting any other team its called being honest with yourself.
     
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  4. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Some people have the luxury of choosing who to support, but I don't feel I can just resign from Spurs without at the same time resigning from my family, my childhood, my whole life to date, in fact. The Spurs I first saw in the '60s were famously supported by the most critical fans in the country, presumably because they'd been spoiled by the 'push and run' and 'double' teams, and expected good football and success, unlike many of the modern fans, who've had so little to cheer about for so long that they wet themselves over a losing CL final appearance, as if the great days were back again. Critics of the current setup are invariably branded disloyal, as if they prefer failure to success, but I see loyalty as 'blind' by definition, the loyalists in fact refusing to face facts, unlike the realists, of whom I'm proudly one. As Felon has said so often, it's about wanting better for Spurs than is currently on offer, and not being satisfied with mediocrity and decline, which seem to be gathering pace, with Pochettino's 'magic' having apparently worn off. Unpalatable maybe, but true.
     
  5. Spurporter Active Member

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    I understand fully, yet you should have seen over the years a quite large crowd of supporters that you call "cheerful", or "brainless" depending on your mood in particular day. They have existed and they will exist. Just, please, refrain from attacking them. It doesn't serve any good purpose. Thank you.
     
  6. Spurporter Active Member

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    We are not better than Liverpool NOW. We're worse than Newcastle or Leicester based on the losses we incurred. We aren't better than Arcenal and were worse than ManCity. But we do not have many lesser players than Liverpool. Van Dyke and Mane are the two outstanding players Spurs cannot match, whilst Kane is ahead of Firminho. Our MF is better. Foyth is not as good as AA. Yet. But Rose is better than Robertson.

    Pool are, as thin, as Spurs are, they do not have team B, like City does. They were lucky with injuries for now and I do not wish it on anyone, just saying. When I was insisting Spurs will finish above LFC, I did not plan for injuries, I was expecting Pool having a hangover after last season and long and exhausting tournament in the summer, Copa America, where their foreigners represented their countries. It was a reasonable expectation. I was wrong, they held up well, whilst Spurs have not showed up yet. It's a long season, it just started, so let's wait for the spring. No reason to declare me insane neither then or now, however.

    Spurs players are not playing well at the moment, they are inconsistent performers. But their value is not yet down, like you think. They do not play as good as they can. Why do they play poorly no one knows, it is the manager's job to figure out. That investigative job just started, it's far from finish and we will get back to it once it is done. You think they cannot play better, I don't and that is disagreement that will be resolved.

    Time is needed for that. You change coach when there is evidence that he is unable to turn things around and make performance better. You got no evidence, just strain of bad results. Bad results hurt your feelings, so like a cry baby you want the club you support to stop hurting YOU. Change the coach, you say, change the owner, DO SOMETHING!!!

    When you say you want betterment for the club, you want actually a different thing. You want to prevent your own disappointment. It is not how support supposed to be. It is not about you.
     
    Last edited: September 23, 2019
  7. Thomas Guest

    Felon, Cheshunboy, Gordon Mic, you are seriously deranged but I am glad to be in good company! Trying to reason with Spurporter is like getting caught in a riptide and getting dragged further and further away from the truth.

    Pochettino is no Alex and not even Wenger. He has done great well to elevate Spurs from a Top 6 to Top 4 team. Levy has done well as well. Spurs were a mediocre team in the 1990's. Things started to improve in the mid 2000's. I give credit when it's due. However, I have serious doubts whether Pochettino himself wants to stay at Tottenham or like CE, he's waiting for someone to bail him out.

    What better evidence that he's not able to turn things around after 6 years and no trophy and a rot that started in the second half of last season.

    I believe Felon, Cheshunboy, Gordon Mic and many other lunatics out there support Spurs wholeheartedly even though we hold negative views about some of the players, coach or owners. Loving and supporting a club doesn't mean agreeing with everything. It means loving and supporting them DESPITE not agreeing with everything. It's like you not agreeing everything your spouse does, loving him/her. Imagine my spouse doing something I don't like and I pretend to like and agree with it. My spouse would call me phony. We are mature enough to know that. We don't have to bypass our mental faculty and blindly agree with everything that happens to be called a true supporter.

    If we are lunatics, we are happy lunatics, not depressed wimps for Tottenham! Anyone else wants to join the club?
     
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  8. Thomas Guest

    https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...auricio-pochettino-says-big-spending-16665876

    Lowest to highest
    1. Norwich
    2. Southhampton
    3. Sheffield United
    4. Burnley
    5. Crystal Palace
    6. Tottenham
    7. Liverpool
    8. Chelsea

    Pochettino was quoted

    “It’s in their history – in the last 10 years – all the money they were spending to arrive here.

    “For us, we are far away from that. It’s not fair to compare and say Liverpool is going to be an inspiration for us. No! It’s the opposite.”

    I am not sure about the past ten years but during the past 5 years Liverpool spent 6 million euros more than us and look at the team they've built.
     
  9. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

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    Some general information:
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    Thanks
     
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  10. dnoll5

    dnoll5 Member

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    Simple point:

    If VAR gets things right, we have three points against Newcastle and a likely three against Leicester as only the ruling sparked them. Take one away against City (add two for City as well) and we are sitting at 13. CALM DOWN. It's been bad by recent standards, but still good enough for third.

    Read that again, GOOD ENOUGH FOR THIRD.... and people want everyone's head. Get out.
     
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  11. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    An excellent and factual point.

    Where does this sit with the go support a Sugar daddy side that buy trophies argument?

    Rose better than Robertson is a level of delusion I can't even begin to rationalize.

    Facts are Liverpool under Klopp have overtaken Pochettino and spurs through pro activity in the markets and much better innovative management over a 5 year period , spending equally just on better quality and where needed.

    As I've said repeatedly there's no plan regarding our transfer buisness , there's no pro activity it is the epitome of aimless dithering with not a single thought given to what the team needs for balance/improvement/cohesion.

    And Pochettino is more than complicit in this negligence while Ming continues to suffocate any progression.

    Problem is it's now gone too far , been exhausted and flogged to death. Pochettinos stubbornness and disinterest in recruitment has made him an architect of his own downfall and he is now reaping what he has sewn.

    He signed his contract and with it went his soul.
     
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  12. Thomas Guest

    Ifs and buts....First, you have to get VAR to work they way you want it to work. Then your ifs and buts matter.
     
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  13. Spurporter Active Member

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    Klopp is better manager than Poch. If you compare the two, they play similar football, but Klopp is a better scout of Euro talent (players playing in Europe could be from South America or Africa) being much more familiar through his experience with it. Poch is not a scout or so he says, he needs someone to find gems, like Alli, for him. So he operates much harder, as he has to evaluate the talent on his training ground. He is good at that , but that produces number of signings that need to be sold after he rejects them. Therefore, Klopp is much more productive as he rejects less players that club signs. Spurs cannot get anyone who would be similar to Klopp, as Tottenham still viewed by many on the continent as obscured English club that is no good for career. It will take years for THFC to change such a view. Stadium is a step in right direction. Making top 4 in that regard is by far more important than to win domestic cups. We won many in the past and were known as a cup winning team, but that don't get you any respect outside England in the times when football is getting global. I think given all that Poch is the best choice at this time. Not because he is the best, but because no better will be available any time soon. If Levy thought differently, Poch would not have gotten his long contract.
     
    Last edited: September 23, 2019
  14. Thomas Guest

    The transfer plan is what baffles me most. We went bargain hunting for N'jie, Nkoudou and Jansen and barely after they joined, they ceased being in Pochettino's plans. Occasionally, they make their way back into his plans again due to injuries or because they cannot be sold. I think it's the same now with Wanyama and Rose whom Pochettino was willing to let go and now they are in his plans again.

    The lack of a creative alternative to Christian Eriksen was more acute than a second striker to Harry Kane. Now we are caught in no man's land. We can't let Eriksen leave because there's no viable alternative since Lo Celso needs time to settle in and we also don't want him to leave on a free. The same situation can be said of Vertonghen and Alderweireld. Who's capable of replacing them if they leave. Sanchez and Foyth? Sanchez had at least one good season at CB but Foyth? What's worst, we are trying to convert them in RBs.

    Just a couple of bad games and we are calling for Pochettino's head? Nope. As far as I'm concerned while Pochettino might not be responsible for everything that goes wrong, there's a growing sense that he's unhappy and frustrated with the club. I think he lacks the conviction that he can bring the club forward as evidence by his disclosure that he might have left Tottenham if we had won the Champions League. I construe that as "better get my ass out of here on a high. I don't think we are going to get lucky again.".

    After being on this project for 6 years and telling his players that trophies are coming, I wonder if he feels sick repeating the same which might be falling on deaf ears.

    There are two managers whom I appreciated during the last two decades. One of them is Pochettino, who made Spurs a Top 4 club, the other is Martin Jol who brought some excitement back after a decade of mediocrity.
     
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  15. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    I think arry deserves some credit here too , his side played the best football to watch by far.
    I also believe Jol & Arry had much tougher top 4 competition than Poch has had
     
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  16. Spurporter Active Member

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    This is how Fake News is made. You use some of the facts, and hide some and get a favorable combination.
    Posh was talking about spending, you are talking about net balance. We sold Bale, whilst them sold Suares and Cuttinho. Their sales allowed them to offset their purchases much better. If you look at Pool without what is that they sold, they spent incomparably more.
     
  17. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    What was wrong with Harry Rednapp???But although this is living in the past no manager has been fit to lace the great Bill Nicholson’s boots..To those to young to know he appointed Blanchflower as captain against all advice at the time and then scoured the country for talent that nobody else seemed to want and converted players into different positions which resulted in players not previously rated becoming internationals.My point is this was a man with vision and the drive to make it happen and his trust in Blanchflower to captain on the field when things needed changing was paramount.I feel sorry for the newer contributors on this site because all you have known is the race for top four.Believe me winning something can not be bettered by that
     
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  18. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    The fact is over the last 5 years we've spent net 95.3m and Pool net 100.1m.
    There's nothing fake about that
     
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  19. voiceofreason Active Member

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    Wow. I don’t check in for a day or so and the forum explodes
    Although I do agree we are having a hard time and some of the decisions are hard to understand, particularly Sanchez at right back but possibly even more so Wanyama coming on at all. What has Dier done to piss of Pochettino- a while ago, he was one of the first on the team sheet since he made up a spine that settled the team?hl
    Having said that,I do think it is too soon to jump ship yet. Regardless of how we did it, we did end up top 4 and cl final last year. So far this year we haven’t hit top gear but one Danny Rose brain fart against Arsenal and one “debatable” Var call against Leicester and those Two games would have been well played, with good results and we are 2nd!

    I am not saying all is rosy but we need a few more games and for the new players to be sorted out, before we hit the alarm bell

    I would say though that we should play most games now without CE, I don’t think it will benefit us, short or long term unless he changed his mind and signed a contract
     
  20. Thomas Guest

    For crying out loud, what is fake? Your statement about Bale and Suarez is fake. Bale was sold in 2013 and Suarez in 2014 and they don't figure in the statistics for the last five years.

    Is gross spend a better piece of statistic than net spend? If you sold a player like Coutinho for 100 million and replace him with a player costing you less than 100 million and hence use the extra money to fund acquisition of other players, doesn't the club get the credit? It's like you bought 3 new companies and subsequently sold them for a profit while the other two companies in your portfolio are sold at a loss, how do you measure your investment activity? Do you look at the profit without netting the losses? If a club is able to spend more because they are able to sell their players at a higher value, what's wrong with that? I will be perfectly happy. So I guess, net spend is a better reflecting of investing activities.
     
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