Identifying Spurs issues

After our draw with Bournemouth, I was amazed at how many people suddenly started saying Spurs are not good enough and our season is suddenly plunging it crisis.
Another draw yesterday and I even saw some saying Poch needs to go before it's too late. Firstly, that is madness. We have waited a long time, far too long in my opinion, for Spurs to have a bright looking future. There will be mistakes along the way, remember Poch is still a young manager learning his trade, but I'm convinced we do have the right man for the job in the long term. Our brief flirtation with the title last season has raised expectations and raised them perhaps too high, too soon.
We have the nucleus of a good squad, but, and here comes a big but, there are definitely issues that need to be addressed If we are to push on and consistently challenge for the title and silverware.

The first issue is strength in depth. Or lack of it. Poch believes in youth and I admire that. I want to see youngsters getting their chance and becoming Spurs favourites. But with that you also have to have experience and proven quality. The bench yesterday was sparse and it was hard to see who could really change the game for us. It wasn't until 83 minutes that a substitution was made and then it was one of our better players on the day who had looked like scoring that was withdrawn.
Winks does look like a player who will do well for Spurs but is he a game changer right now? He's not and if he is going to change games he might need more than 7 minutes to do so.

Poch has often been guilty of leaving substitutions to the last minute but yesterday I think it was more to do with the fact that we didn't have a bench with anyone who could change the game on it.
Whilst I appreciate that young Edwards is young, from what I have seen of him, he isn't going to be scared of the Premier league and because he is unknown to the opposition, I believe he can change games. I am not saying he should suddenly be in the starting 11 but why not have him on the bench.
Some players just have that spark and he has it. At least he would offer something entirely different to what we already have at our disposal.

We spent a lot, far too much, on Sissoko in the summer and maybe that money would have been better spent on 2 more players who add that game changing talent to the squad. You have got have to look at the subs bench for Liverpool, City, Arsenal and even Chelsea to see where Spurs squad could well suffer. Particularly in a season where we have Champions league football too.

So, I think in it's fair to say a bit of shopping in January may be needed. We need big game players. And we need them available from the bench as well as from the start.

The old saying that Poch had no plan B is nothing new. He was accused of this at Southampton as well. He tends not to change the formation and one up top just doesn't suit Spurs. Yesterday both Son and Janssen were up top but Son was either out wide or far too deep to influence the game. Poch did little to try and change this and it is the one area that I really do question him at times.
He seems stubborn when it comes to formations and he needs to stop being stubborn and act to change games. It's clear from the last three games that we do need that extra push, that extra ignition to take 3 points rather than 1.

I don't agree that we are not good enough. We are if the right decisions are made and if Poch learns to mix things up a bit
We are if we start playing at pace again. Currently we have slipped into a very slow, laboured style of football that we started to see at the end of last season. The slower we play, the more the opposition will just sit and watch us pass the ball around but get nowhere. It's a dull tactic, it's not working so Poch has to do his job and change things.

The potential is there but it's time for some ballsy rather than Spursy action to be taken- add game changers to the squad, which Sadly for us means relying on Ming to spend and mix up the tactics. And play at pace!!!!!

We sit 3 points off the top. Our goal difference is only 5 behind the leaders so we are near enough to challenge. What we now need to see is that extra impetus o go to the next level.

We can do it. We are good enough but need to do better right now. As ever, come on you Spurs.

 

I agree totally with the general tone of this, but...:

Edwards couldn't be on the bench yesterday as he is injured.

I understand reservations about Sissoko - I share them myself. But surely it is way too soon to be definitely writing him off and declaring the money de facto wasted. It may be with more hope than expectation, and I know that Poch won't be able to transform every single player, but let's at least wait and see. Surely Poch must have a plan for him and believe he can refine him in line with that. I doubt he would sanction such a significant outlay and really want him (he did, apparently, he wasn't just a stop-gap or fall-back) without seeing him as a piece of the jigsaw - after some work I would imagine. Anyway, let's give him time. I think Poch has earned that, at least.

 

How much 'potential' and 'still learning' must we endure before we actually deliver some end product???

Every season we've got legions of fans desperate to see the good in failure, whether it be League, cups, transfer windows etc

We have a deep seeded Failure culture at the club where any old dross is ok as long as its not as bad as the 90s.

We only had a pitiful title challenge and qualified for CL by default last season and it looks to me like normal service is beginning to resume again.

Are we progressing really? When will this ownership actually deliver? Whatever 'goal' we have come May you can guarantee that if its us or someone else to the line we will ultimately choke and itl all be glossed over with some BS like we had the best possession stats over all and were building for next season. (Change the record)

Again were all asking for a bit of star quality a sprinkle of magic dust something Spurs have traditionally always had, but where is it now?

I look at this Spurs side and although there is talent and solidity all i see is a 'functional' side, were gonna be tough to beat but were not gonna tear any1 a new 1 and if u dig in your almost guaranteed a draw with us.

All i see progress wise is that were not gonna get an AvBesque spanking off anyone (yet) but what are we doing to kick on?

Any player available that would make an immediate difference/impact we seem to forever dilly around and go for the not as good/ready option.

We have been carried by a Kane purple patch which has covered over a lot of our deficiencies and now hes not available or in form we are totally toothless.

Many of us have called for Pace and a bit of guile going forward and instead of getting the type of players we desperately need we watch the slow sideways brigade regurgitate predictable bland football, then we have a talked up but ultimately tragic academy of which none seem to be good enough to influence a 1st team game so we have a never ending rolling wait for someone/something to maybe sometime reach potential but ultimately never will due to too many factors between the 1st team, bench, reserves, academy.

Were the Growth that never delivers.

 

Felon you must be the life and soul of a party- seeing all those half empty glasses around you

As to we will never really
"Tear any one a new one"

Can I mention a certain team who were unbeaten and are everyone's pick for the crown!

 

A whopping 2-0? Stop the press!

What about the incredible 0-0 with Bournemouth?

1 good result and everyone gets giddy before we revert to type imediately and everyone clings to that 1 result to gloss over the ultimate failings.

Youve just proved my point.

 

When we beat them, nobody else had even come close and regardless of the score , we did tear them 1. We completely outplayed them and were very comfortable winners and even you must agree if we played like that in every game we would run away with the title ?

 

Im in total agreement IF we played like that consistently yes we'd be a serious outfit, but lets be honest how many performances do we put together like that?

A good day at the office does not make up for the follow up dross where we cant buy a win against relative poorer opposition.

Poch's plan A has its positives when it works and we are all in tune, but more often than not its functional but toothless and with out more flexibility, tactical nouse, and ultimately quality/conviction were not going to do anything different from about the last 8/9 seasons.

Which is barely anything just better than the 90s

 

We will finish in the top 4 and I don't see us being anything like the last 8 to 9 years. Yes, we ran out of steam last year but it as massive progress on the last few years.
We need to make adjustments and changes need to be made but it's far too early to write off our season.
No title is won after 10 games. Things could be worse and also could be better.

Let's not hit the doom button just yet.

 

I agree with Felon 100% we have gone back to the slow predictable possession AVB style with no cutting edge and when we get pressed we haven't got a clue how to get round it hence the 3 draws in a row, where is the variation in play? the set pieces where you can win games from that alone? the free-kicks, crosses and corners have been utterly shocking! the taking on of full backs to actually cross the ball into the box? it's all plan A and not a lot else, why not chuck 2 up front in the last 15 minutes sometimes to try to actually win the game? there's more questions that answers at the mo, it seems now everyone has sussed us out, press us and we are fooked without an answer! it's going to keep happening now so Poch better have a plan B or we are going to keep drawing, it's not being negative it's being realistic to what is happening! i still think we need a Modric in midfield as a central figure to run the midfield and create things, put that quick pass through to the forward making a run and to keep it ticking over, Sissoko was a terrible signing that we didn't need and for that money as well? would rather a creative hardworking midfielder that can influence a game and make things happen for us up top, we are a good team but there is something missing, the balance is not quite right yet, also how is our one striker Kane or Janssen going to score unless he gets the service??? could go on but bored now! it's up to Poch to sort it out Coys!

 

Its not so much the Doom button its just frustration.
We turn up against City then we have a stroll about like that's enough.
You look at the Manager when the inevitable is happening and he just carries on with whats not working like hes oblivious to it.
You look at the Bench and its stocked full of nobodies that we're all eternally waiting for to come good but reality is they don't progress enough and end up getting sold before being replaced by another 'hopeful' on a 5year loop.
The windows come up and what we NEED is totally ignored.
Then May comes around and whatever it is were 'fighting' for we loose out then go to the nearest default mode of bemoaning the draws that cost us and talking up the best parts we can cling to before reverting to the 'were building for next season' mantra.
What i want to know is when is this Ownership ever going to sort this ground hog day out & deliver?

Sometimes i feel like the only fan that wants us to actually win things!
The list of 'Positive' excuses gets longer and longer but NEVER bares fruit.

 

Went to the game yesterday and was shocked by the performance of Eriksen. He couldn't deliver on corners freekicks and did he provide any chances for Janssen?
Janssen may come good but where will the service come from?
Kyle often received the ball in space moved forward and then checked instead of overlapping and crossing
Dele looks tired and lost of sparkle
Wanyama was immense but silly mistake.He and Dembele will be awesome
Came away thinking we could have played all weekend and not scored
The bench bereft of talent and after Liverpool game Onomah should bot have been on it
Nkoudou please persevere with him as he can go past players
Leverkusen- cant see us scoring
Arsenal -i am worried
Kane in after 6 weeks out is not superman
Jan window sign proven goalscorer

 

Pochettino really has very little to offer when his one-dimensional single tactical idea gets countered - it has always been that way from Espanyol to now.

Last year we got third mainly because Chelsea and United were so awful, not because of any brilliance from us. That is the sad truth, but truth all the same.

Two years at a big Club with a great Academy and this big reputation for developing youth, yet Onomah is the only one he has promoted until now. Same time as selling the promising young ones and the ones who have a spark of maverick creativity whilst buying players not that well suited to the need we have.

Lewis and Levy have had us for 16 years and quashed every bit of real progress we have had, and lumbered us with limited replacement managers. Time for big changes once the stadium is built in my opinion.

 

Well I suppose it depends on what you mean by " not good enough " or what your expectations were in the first place .. So what do you mean by not good enough , not good enough for what , to win a Lg title or to compete for one , or to be a top 4 team or again , to compete for top 4 ... As you said yourself expectations have changed massively for most in the last 12 months and it must be remembered it has also changed for the players and management ... How they deal with this expectation and pressure will have a bearing on their performances , you can already see frustration on some faces when things ain't going to plan , there was none of that last season ..

When I say we,re not good enough , I mean not good enough to win the title and I mean in certain areas of the team , not all over the pitch .. Think you'd have to be fairly blind or ignorant , not to recognize how strong we are in certain areas , that back 7 are as good as any side in the league i.m.o and when Harry is back there haven't been too many better then him over the last few seasons either , hope he can get back to the player he was for the last few seasons when he comes back .. It's the 3 behind the striker where we fall short , at this moment in time I'm convinced any combination from the players we have in that position probably aren't as good as the rest of the team .. Saying that Sissoko ( who I'm not convinced by at all like most fans ) and NKD should be given time to prove themselves one way or another like everyone that comes into the side ... Hope all the Lamela fans remember this ...

I'm not sure by any means how this season will turn out just yet , I can't see us winning the title , I just can't see that yet but I never expected it in the first place so I'm not upset about that .. To be honest at the start of this year I wasn't sure what to expect with last year being such a strange year and for all our good performancs and there were plenty , we didn't end up with a superior points total then some of our other years but there was definitely something superior about how we were doing it ... I would definitely be pleased enough if we could keep them type of performancs up and consolidate our position in the top 4 ... Keep moving forward , keep building on the impressive foundations we have set down and even if it is slowly , to become a regular challenger for the title in the years to come .. That alone is something that's never happened in the Premiership era .. It's not going to be easy , especially with this new stadium being built and a full season of home games at Wembley on the horizon .. My frustrations this year so far is we are more like A.V.B.s Spurs then Pochs 15/16 version .. The big danger for me is , if the progress seems to stall or we we start slipping a bit then the top players that we have might start looking elsewhere and then we,re back to square one .... Interesting times ahead for sure , uncertain times in many ways , and patience will be needed for sure .. If we can just hang in there for this period of a few years and become a regular top 4 team by the time we move into our new home then the time for excuses from all of our owners and managers will be over ... That's the way I see it at the moment ... Good times ahead , eventually ..... C.O.Y.S .....

 

That's not necessarily true , they just scraped past Swansea the week before and were piss poor against Celtic in Champs Lg so the signs were certainly there that they might not be all that ..

Another thing to take into consideration is city's style of play would have suited us in terms of us being able to press them high up the field while they were fannyiny about trying to play out from the back ... You don't get two many chances to do that against Brom , Bournemouth or Leicester ... That's ultimately why we need to be able to mix it up a bit more ...

 

Top four is a realistic target and were certainly on course for that. Win next week which I can see happening and we will be everyone's faves for the title I reckon coys.

 

Not exactly. Spurs are the also-rans that took advantage of last season chaotic development to create a false expectations. The team is ambitious, yet is young and most importantly very, very shallow. Levy (I was surprised there were no criticism towards our "beloved" Chairman) must buy players for Poch who has the empty bench and will continue to have problems as there is no way to rotate the youth in. Except for Nkoudu, there is no one there able to step in and compete with 50 million on average acquisitions of others.
This team currently is an illustration to what could have happen should Levy decided not to buy Sissoco. There is no one to cover for Lamela, who was ill, at RMF position. Sissoco's undisciplined behavior should not be something Spurs must be depended on, but at least he will be back. Levy has to buy attacking MFs that are better than Chadli (who should have never been sold, as we missed him badly against Foxes).
Any one who Poch has in his plans must be kept. Chadli was sold cheap and that the only mistake I can blame Poch for. There is nothing else he has done wrong, really. The man tries hard with limited resources afforded for him.
Spurs were lucky last season with little to no injuries. It will not be the case ever again. If Levy wants to enjoy revenues, whilst spending on the stadium, he must invest in players that would contribute now, not in the future. Spurs have lots of talent in the farm, yet that talent is not ready. 15 million will no longer cut it. That is the cost the bottom table clubs pay for players.
COYS!!!

 

pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass...............no end product
same old same old

we need to change our formation or our players. the 3 being the striker do not understand the role
It's just so predictable.
I'd play 4213......Lloris......Walker, Aldi, Verts, Rose....Wanyama, Dier....Dembele.....Alli, Janssen(Kane), Son

...will Harry Kane make a difference. ...err...yes...he won't hold it up as well as Janssen....or bring players into the game as well as Janssen......and he won't get the ball from a team member in a position to score (same as Janssen doesn't). Kane will score goals because he has that (needed) greedy element. he will create his own shooting opportunities. Our team play doesn't afford clear opportunities to our CF...so Janssen hasn't had good chances.
Soldado had the same problem. (and before the hard of understanding think I'm saying Janssen and Soldado are the same...I am not....I am saying the similarity is that neither got/gets the ball early enough in a position to score a goal)

some are saying we will finish top4......I can't see it at the moment

 

The problem for me is not so much that we are not tearing up the league, more like the fact that Poch likes a high press and high intensity ... I have seen little of that to be fair..
Man City this year yes, Bournemouth, West Brom and Leicester no .
We persevere with the two fittest FB's in the league who get forward at every opportunity, then they stop and pass back, ball goes sideways for a while, enough for the opposition to get in place .. frustrating .
Our forward three seem to hesitant to shoot, Lamela the most frustration..
Kane and now Janssen are working hard but are very rarely in the box for the crossing (or stopping and passing back ) FB's.
Basically unless we have some urgency in our game out season will at this early stage start to peter out.
Sissoko ... why !! Should have been Mane ..
Actually I caught the Crystal Palace v Liverpool game at the weekend and Liverpool seem to have the high press, high intensity we are lacking.

 

Pochettino's managerial career to date has been solid - nothing more, no trophies or titles, and yet he's been hyped as some sort of Mourinho/Wenger/SAF/Clough/Nicholson hybrid on the basis of an improved defence and the hope (verging on desperation!) of a generation of success-starved Spurs fans. Without the collapse of three at least of the usual Top Four last season, it's very unlikely that we'd have earned a CL place with 70 points (ONE more than the 69 that got Sherwood the sack), and we really don't seem to have progressed since Redknapp's golden period, unless you honestly prefer defensive solidity to the magic of Bale, Modric and VDV, in which case you shouldn't be a Spurs supporter.

 

....if we had our current defensive set-up.....with Bale, Modric and VdV in the team......we'd probably be top of the league.
...even with Crouchy as the striker!