Palace point good enough for Pochettino as fans furious

Totally agree with that Matt the only thing we have at present is time. This season is almost a dead rubber so let him have his new spine and judge him more then...

 

This a copy and paste job, but the next 2 transfers windows are going to be crucial for our success under Pochettino in the future. It's clear that the majority of our current 1st team players are incapable of performing under Poch's favoured system. Who has to come in and who has to leave for Pochettino to be successful at WHL?




How many pieces of the attacking jigsaw need changing?

One step forward, one step back, we haven't quite got it right yet have we.


The youngsters in the squad have been disappointed with the displays of the more senior players for Tottenham this season, believing they have not been giving it their all. This is exactly what Tim Sherwood saw and pointed out, time has proved he was right.

While the youth have bought into the Mauricio Pochettino philosophy, some more senior players had decided his tactics aren't working and were not giving it their all. It was a mistake from Pochettino listening to the players and making Younes Kaboul captain with Emmanuel Adebayor a vice-captain. That gave them a status when in fact they have the wrong attitude.

Kaboul wants to win, make no mistake, but he loses it and tries to do it all himself rather than concentrating on perfecting his own performance and driving others to improve theirs. When he goes wandering to the right wing the team is no longer performing as a team but a collection of individuals. We give the impression of being a team of individuals and not a team far too often to me.

Tottenham need players with a winning mentality as I've said many a time before, players who want to improve every day, players who will give it their all and that is certainly not Adebayor. There is little point players having a meeting to discuss problems with players like Ade, he doesn't believe the players have a problem, for him it's down to the head coach. It has taken the intervention of Levy and Pochttino to lay down the law to him and others.

The young players have made the right impression and Pochettino wants to introduce more of them, the senior players will have to knuckle down, leave the club or rot. Trouble is it's not easy to get rid of them and they know it.

We saw the first results of the Levy and Pochettino intervention against Everton, a team that actually resembled a team. That gave us hope for the future, a future in which their would be ups and downs, a down against Chelsea and an up we expected against Crystal Palace. Alas it was not to be, our creative players yet again couldn't create.

The season for Spurs is now just beginning. The good news is that the season isn't over, as it had the danger of descending into a serious relegation battle without a change of mentality. I see the Guardian are now saying the flaw in our mentality is stark, the question now is will it change or was Everton a token gesture?

While the players know it's Pochettino's way or no way and we should be looking forward to the season once again, can we? We should be looking forward to the development of the side, but can we? For fans it depends upon how long-term a view you take, for players it's whether they want to.

If a player doesn't believe in a philosophy it is doubtful he is going to change his mind. He might have to work harder to play but without belief there is always going to be something missing from his game and thus nit the right player for the system. That presents a problem as you have to get rid of them, for us that's a question of how.

The system is not going to change, therefore the players have to. The attacking players have shown they don't have the creative ability to operate within it. Creation depends upon player movement. If players don't have the footballing intelligence to make the runs, that draw defenders away to create openings for someone else, then performances are not going to improve.

We seem to have a bunch of me me me players, they all want to be the star and none of them are. They don't play as a creative team but more one tries to use his individual skill and when that doesn't work they give the ball to someone else to try. Alternatively it's pass sideways in front of a packed defence while we look for non-existent openings, non-existent because we don't have the runners creating them.

The fact that we are only 5 points away from fourth, although with our goal difference it's actually 6 points, gives hope that the season can still bring a challenge for a top four slot, but that recedes with every home game.

Our creative front four are failing. We get very little from overlapping full-backs and seem to rely on two or three chances per game. A striker in form will survive on such meagre scrapings for a while before he loses form, but a striker out of form has no opportunity to regain it.

Apart from the inconsistent Chadli who pops up anywhere across the front line we have little goal threat. Kane is still learning his trade and should really be a back-up player. Why is Christian Eriksen always behind the ball, why does he never make a run into the box to receive the ball at home? We are stuck in we must keep possession mode, the opposition will get bored and give us an opening.

Until we resolve the attacking men in the team we will continue to struggle. Which do you retain, which do you sell? They all have flaws that affect our play and will affect the play of others. Which of them has the mental make-up of a winner and which of merely a player?

In the next two windows Pochettino has to fill the squad with winning mentalities, Fazio has one, but a host of players don't. We can not afford the next two windows to be as bad as the last year or the club will be back to a mid-table club aspiring to be better again. While defence and midfield still require upgrading, the attacking element is proving ot be the biggest concern.

Paul Mitchell has a big responsibility, it is he who now recommends the players in the first place.

 

If only every manager had a Ramos in their coaching team, eh?

Because while hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20, those of you read my posts religiously (not mentioning any namess...Felon) will have seen that I did raise the very important question of rotation, BEFORE the match on the weekend...when I said:

'Back to matters on the field, though, and I think the game on the weekend provides this Spurs team with an EQUALLY significant examination as the game against Chelsea (if not more).'

'Spurs have struggled thus far, this season, to impose their will upon teams they have been expected to beat at WHL and the game on Saturday will throw up a number of questions this side has yet to answer.

1. 
   Listen, it's EASY to be motivated, concentrated and run around a million miles per hour against the likes of Everton/ Chelsea, every so often, when you feel that doing these things will give you the edge in what you perceive will be a tightly contested contested where small margins can be the big difference.
   
   But it is how the players apply themselves in the games where they themselves will believe that they are ALREADY the superior side, that will tell us more about just how well this set of players are adjusting to MP's methods.
   
   The match on the weekend will also be Spurs' 3rd game in the space of a week, which will also throw up questions about rotation.
   
   Do you rotate a team that seems to be finally getting to grips with what is being demanded by them?
   
   Or do you stick with the same side that has been doing well, at the risk of some of the players not being at 100% sharpness (especially on the back of a defeat)?
   
   The impressive Bentelab, for example, has ONLY just returned from a lengthy injury lay-off to play in 2 and a bit games in the space of a week. In those game the Algerian International must of covered a considerable amount of ground, and despite being a 'naturally' fit guy, might just be beginning to feel the pace.
   
   Is this the perfect opportunity to recall the likes of Capoue/ Dembele in place of one of the teams best performers in recent matches?
   
   After all, the Xmas period is nearly upon us and Mauricio WILL need to start his preparation in earnest, in terms of team selection/rotation, if Spurs are to come through that busy period fresh faced, bushy tailed and ready for the challenges that await in the new year.'
   
   Ring any bells, anybody????
   
   Well, it was failure to grasp the idea that the players were physically, emotionally and mentally fatigued that cost Spurs against Palace on the weekend.
   
   Poch got it wrong, but as long as he learns from this particular experience then the point on the weekend can be looked at as a positive, because lets be honest it could have been SO MUCH worse!
   
   So why were the lads so exhausted? How did The Ram use his extensive knowledge and deep understanding of the game to identify BEFORE the game that Spurs required a few changes going into what was ALWAYS going to be a tough, tough game against Palace on the weekend?
   
   The boys were knackered, it's as simple as that!
   
   Physically - The team had put in a TREMENDOUS amount of work in the games against Everton and Chelsea trying to adapt to the blue print laid out by Pochettino. Now, the one thing you could virtually guarantee on the weekend was that Palace (managed by Neil Warnock) were going to attempt to bridge any gap in technical skill by trying to 'outwork' Spurs.i.e. scrapping for 2nd balls and generally playing at an extremely high tempo.
   
   Asking the SAME players, who had put such a great effort in the previous few games 'to go again' against a side who were fresher (in every aspect of the game) was always going to be a risk that MP would have done well to avoid.
   
   Emotionally- Spurs have burnt up an ENORMOUS amount of energy over the past nine days and not all of it has been due to the physical demands of being a pro footballer.
   
   The roller-coaster of emotions felt during that time would have been equally as energy sapping.
   
   The relief of qualification in the Europa League. The euphoria of the 3 points/ performance against Everton played upon 'troubled grounds' (WHL). The demoralization of a 3-0 scoreline against Chelsea just 3 days later.The culmination of all of those emotions in such a short space of time without question played it's part in the tepid display we saw on the weekend.
   
   Although the lads would've been desperate to play well and perform, actually doing so would've taken MORE energy, mental toughness and desire than ANY of the previous 3 games (in nine days), as the players were emotionally drained going into a game where subconsciously, after the encouraging displays against Chelsea (opening 20 mins) and Everton, they would've been expecting to win.
   
   
   Mentally
   
   The pressure of being expected to win would of been another factor in the teams performance.
   Trying to raise your game to the required level, taking into account the SIGNIFICANT amount of energy (physical and emotional) used in the previous 7/8 days isn't an easy task.
   
   Regardless of the fact Spurs played some excellent football against Chelsea in the opening 20 mins, the FACT is the team still lost 3-0.
   
   It's a heavy defeat on paper, which would of heightened the expectancy/pressure level on those who featured considerably in the matches and still played against Palace.
   
   It also would of left a negative feeling which would of felt like a HUGE 'come down' after the high of the Everton game. Another draining contributor.
   
   Pochettino should of identified this. but perhaps, like I stated again BEFORE the game, the temptation of sticking with a team that had begun to show some consistency/ form would prove to enticing.
   
   Mauricio saw a side that were delivering a lot of what he wants from his teams and decided to stick with it!
   
   Of course there is NO crime in this but I feel the Argentine failed to REALLY consider the impact of the (emotional) rollercoaster the lads he had been on recently and it came back to haunt him. Maybe he just underestimated it.
   
   After all, it's hard to see these things on the training pitch.... It's something that lends itself to understanding the psychology of football/ sport.
   
   Funny thing is, I believe Poch DOES understand the psychology of the game, being an ex pro (of some standing too)
   
   What happens when you expend a vast amount of (emotional) energy over a short period of time? You generally become tired/lethargic.
   
   Listen, had the team BEATEN Chelsea then their energy levels would of been considerably higher, allowing them (more of a realistic opportunity) to perform again just three days later.
   
   Like I said previously, the game against Palace was ALWAYS going to arguably the MOST difficult game of the run, all things considered.
   
   You heard certain players, before the game, stating: ' If we play like we did against Everton we will win the game (vs CP).
   
   But the truth is, the Spurs players had to be BETTER than they were against Everton... and they weren't even as good as they were against the Toffees.
   
   Look, I could go on all day here, but I cannie be bothered!
   
   The positives of introducing fresh players into the side on the weekend outweighed the negatives as far I'm concerned.
   
   Stambouli, Dembele, Paulinho and Lennon would've all appreciated run out's, while players like Kane, Bentelab and Mason had all earned a breather.
   
   So although I understand why the manager made the decisions he did, I also believe Poch had options on Friday night, and the disappointing nature of the teams performance suggests he chose the wrong ones.
   
   It happens...We move on!
   
   ( But like I said, EVERY football manager could do with a Ramos on the coaching team )

 

Great post Ramos couldn't disagree with much of that! Poch got it wrong and has got quite a lot wrong this season. However we do seem to be getting a more settled regular 11 and hopefully he can learn from the
iimpact of three big tough games in a short space of time on the team and more importantly certain players is the younger ones!

 

Poch can't get it right, can he? If he plays nearly the same side from match to match, then he is accused of playing physically and emotionally tired players. If he changes the team to account for this, he's accused of not knowing his best side and playing them continously so they can establish an understanding of each others roles. My only quibble with Saturday's team was Lamela. He hadn't done enough in the previous 2 matches to earn a starting berth against Palace.
Until Pochettino can bring in his own players to play the style he wants, we will continue to be an in-and-out side. We won't be able to tell what level of performance to expect from match to match. Most of the boys either don't buy into his high press, high intensity strategy or are not capable of delivering it on a regular basis. Either way, it means he has to find players who can produce what he wants. January is going to be an interesting month at the Lane.

 

Ah you are back, hope you are well?

Listen Ramos, once again a well constructed post but once again packed with every excuse in the book for failure. Palace who undoubtedly have less funds a smaller squad etc had exactly the same amount of games as us in the same period, there is no excuse for being outworked and out played by them doing the basics better than us.

Now its because the players have had an 'emotional week'. - Priceless

If beating Everton then getting spanked at a canter by Chelsea is too emotional for them in the battle for mid table status i suggest theyr in the wrong career.

 

I don't buy into this having a best eleven, you cant manage a team through the league and the cups without a clever rotation policy and every team and squad member has to play their part to make the team work as a cohesive interchangeable unit. While there are some negatives in a first and second team environment the upside is that during the Europa group stages and early cup games we get to keep the squad match fit and gives the manager options when it comes to rotation.
Managing a team playing in Europe as well as the domestic cups is a massive challenge for Poch and keeping the whole squad rotated and motivated is indeed an art that may or may not be achievable for such a young and very green manager such as Poch. Did he get it right ? he dropped Soldado after the Spaniard finally scored one from open play for his favourite pet Lamela, his next effort at rotation was to drop Lennon for the Palace game essentially leaving us with two strikers and no width to supply them, and again for Lamela ? Its going to take time for Poch to know his team and how to rotate them effectively maybe he should look at the methods of SAF who was a master of rotation and often interchanged certain players not considered to be in his best eleven to great success and keeping them motivated and ready to run through a brick wall when called upon, so whats the secret of SAFs success ? HORSES... SAF is a horse man and knows that athletes are like race horses, when they are young horses like three year olds they are good sprinters and are good for short period and then need a spell, after a spell you bring them back with a few runs until they peak for a while then spell them again. five and six year olds are stronger and will be better over distance and will also need a spell after peaking, if you are lucky and get a few genuine thoroughbreds in the team you will win a few of the big races. Fazio has only had a few runs and is playing into some decent form, Davies the same, neither can be suffering from fatigue at this stage. Bentaleb has only come back from a spell and has probably played too many in a short time, Mason is also very young and could probably do with a spell before he loses form at this stage he shouldn't be nailed on for first team. Harry Kane has had a few early season runs and is now running into peak form and covering a lot of ground at pace. So there you go clever rotation and horses for courses. Unfortunately we have one or two nags that are probably ready for the knackery.

 

Well u can disagree all u like but u look at Chelsea and u see courtios ivanovic terry Cahill terry azpilicuta matic hazard fabregas and costa start when fit. Same with city six or seven starters every week. Liverpool last year more so! The great utd team how many games did schmeichel Neville stam Keane scholes Beckham miss. There is no recognizable spine to the team and that's y we lack cohesion. U need an order of merit and the ones outside then know the benchmark to get in the 11. There will be two/three places up for grabs for sure and game time for others in cups and when injuries hit and CLEAR fatigue and CLEAR loss of form. This was redknapps only downfall that he always picked his best 11 and failed to recognize the fatigue/dip in form and played some with injuries that alienated a lot of fringe players. Any idiot can rotate a squad to keep em all happy even myself. But the skill is to put it all together as Ferguson and mourinho does with ease!

 

I accept that the density and intensity of the modern game means that managers must learn the art of rotation, but that only comes after a core playing style and starting 11 has been established. Poch is still in the process of building the 1st stage so he needs all the latitude we can afford him to complete the task. He may have found some of the qualities he's been looking for in the Everton match and also in the opening 20 minutes of the Chelsea clash. It is not surprising that he chose to continue with most of the same starting lineup against Palace. I'm sure he was as well aware of fatigue as we all were prior to the match. Nevertheless, he could still have chosen the same players to see how they would perform when not physically at 100%.
Pochettino signed a 5 yr contract and, in my opinion, is operating to a minimum 3 year plan. Towards the end of last season, he said in, at least, one interview that he had completed phase one of the plan agreed with the Saints board and that they had to decide whether to move on to a 2nd phase and what its aims would be. He seemed to imply that the Saints board's ambitions did not match his own and that a wholesale clearout was in the offing, which turned to be the case in the summer. I would be very surprised if he wasn't operating to a similar plan at Tottenham. If that is the case, then I suspect that the 1st part of this season is being used to access the players to see who will stay and who has to go. The next 2 transfer windows are going to be very important to this strategy and we can discern, already, which players are moving towards the exit door. In my mind, the following players WON'T be at WHL come next August if all goes according to plan; Friedel, Naughton, Chiriches, Kaboul, 1 of Davies or Rose, Assou-Ekoto, Paulinho, Dembele & Adebayor. Other possibles are Vertonghen, Capoue, Lennon & Townsend. Pochettino will want to make a real push up the table next season and he will expect to have all his players and playing system in place come the start of next season. Levy, Baldini and Mitchell are in for a busy few months if this vision is to become reality.

 

I would be very surprised if he wasn't operating to a similar plan at Tottenham. If that is the case, then I suspect that the 1st part of this season is being used to access the players to see who will stay and who has to go. The next 2 transfer windows are going to be very important to this strategy and we can discern, already, which players are moving towards the exit door. In my mind, the following players WON'T be at WHL come next August if all goes according to plan; Friedel, Naughton, Chiriches, Kaboul, 1 of Davies or Rose, Assou-Ekoto, Paulinho, Dembele & Adebayor. Other possibles are Vertonghen, Capoue, Lennon & Townsend. Pochettino will want to make a real push up the table next season and he will expect to have all his players and playing system in place come the start of next season. Levy, Baldini and Mitchell are in for a busy few months if this vision is to become reality.[/QUOTE]

The 'head coach' doesn't get to decide who comes and goes- the silent dictator does that which is the main reason were in the mess were in and why so many managers have failed under the regime.
Every window we dont buy the quality needed in the positions needed with the main focus on slotting into the managers system.
Its soley based around 'potential' and resale value rather than whats essential.
Every window Ming out prices moves for the deadwood/surplus and we end up with them clogging up the bench taking up valuable wages and air.
This all adds up to a squad full of inconsistant 'potential' , second rate players, sub standard players and deadwood exactly what we have now.
Who thinks this is going to change now? Its been going on for years!
Although i totally agree with you that players need to be shifted and id personally send 10 packing no worries the book balancer will be in the middle of it all trying to squeeze every last penny out of everything on the last day of the window and it will be the same as ever. The transfer policies need a major overhaul starting with Levy he is the single most biggest problem at Spurs and needs to go before we can ever move forward.
Those that expect anything different from this cretin are living in cloud cukoo land.

 

Agree that the team needs a decent spine of players with good engines in order to be able to create consistency, for me clever rotation id about a manager knowing his players and when they need a spell as well as necessary changes through injury, the player coming in has to be match fit and be able to slot straight in. I agree that any idiot can rotate a team but it takes a very smart one to do it effectively, all those players you have mentioned have played in a consistent first team when older and stronger but every one of them except keepers obviously have been rotated in their teams where necessary

 

Look, I wouldn't expect anyone on here to see the game as I do. In fact, very FEW people I have come across do. Many followers of football look at the sport only on the most superficial of levels. They do NOT understand the invariables, psychology or different facets that are involved in the game they love to watch.

Nor do they attempt to. They are just happy to watch the game and speak about it to the best of their ability, which is fine.

During the time that I have used this platform to express my views, I would've offered many of you a GREAT/ DEEPER insight into the mechanics of the game I have long studied, from a tactical, technical and psychological standpoint.

Some of you have chosen to challenge my opinions, knowledge and credibility over the years, which was perfectly understandable, and in truth necessary, as it allowed me to display/ exhibit more of what I call my 'extensive knowledge and a deep understanding of the game'.

It was fun doing 'battle' in those moments (while it lasted ) however I have grown tired of effectively having the same old conversations, with the same old people.

I am bored of seeing optimism underpinned by pessimism, love in it's most fickle form and a loss of faith driven by a fear to believe in that which you desire.

What do I gain from staying in such an environment? Especially when the belief/faith I have in my own club to succeed is so unwavering/unshakable.

So with that said, I announce that I am about embark on another indefinite period of leave to focus my energy on more serving practices/pastimes.

Will I be back? Well, whilst it is likely, I offer you no guarantees.

What I can guarantee though is that I will be supporting my club to the utmost of my abilities - through thick and thin, good times and the bad...until death do us part!

So beyond today (I will be at my desk until closing), do NOT expect to witness my presence on this particular forum for the foreseeable future.

And yet be assured that I will be following Spurs in anticipation of a Bright and Glorious future under the guidance of Mauricio Pochettino and The Leadership of The Chairman, Daniel Levy.

COME ONNN YOUUU SPURRRSSSSSS!!!

 

Hey Ramos,

Hopefully there is no bad blood between us, i actually enjoy a good debate with you.
Most of the time you offer a good polar opposite to my thoughts and it is a guilty pleasure of mine challenging yours.
I truelly hope that in time you are right and you come back singing it loud and proud- i personally cannot see it for the forseeable future especially under this current regime.
Knowing your persona on this forum and your strong beliefs i know me alone wouldnt make you feel harassed off it but if it has contributed please dnt take it personally.
Like i said i enjoy a good challenge with you, life would be boring if we all thought the same thing on everything. And at the end of the day pessimist optimist stats facts faith despair we all want to see the same thing -

Spurs to win the League, domestic cups and conquer europe consistantly!

COYS!!!!

 

Felon - We have certainly had some fun, my friend. And I am glad you have enjoyed our battles/ duels/ banter as much as I have!

Listen, nobody understands the nature of a forum better than The Ram. A forum, as I know it, is a place where opinions are expressed without caution (...within reason of course ) and mud is slung at will. LOL

I have long considered the best forums (such as this particular one) to be battle grounds unfit for the faint hearted. A placed where friendships are forged, and allies are won and lost all in the name of a common interest.

Although, I may have questioned your qualifications as a supporter, observer of the game, etc, I have NEVER questioned your qualifications as a person/being - as I have ALWAYS believed you to be someone of GREAT human qualities.

And whilst I did NOT need any confirmation of that notion, I have found it in your words today!

Hard feelings? Never!!!

Friends? Of course.

Listen, before we all start blubbering at the sight of Felon and I's 'softer sides( lets say) allow me to remind us all that The Ram is not about to kick the bucket!

I am simply taking a break from a hobby that I have grown tired of in recent weeks and months.... And like I have ALWAYS said, 'if you don't like/enjoy what you are doing then, perhaps, it's time to do something else'.

They say absence makes the heart grow fonder, so by that train of thought I should be back in no time!

Whilst I am away though maybe it would be beneficial for us all to consider Tottenham Hotspur FC as OUR Kingdom, all that reside inside of it's walls as our men and everyone else (rival clubs, media, etc) as enemies out to destroy the institution we have built.

Put in those terms, surely we have a duty to defend our lands- for this is our home, where the vast majority of us intend to see out the rest of our days!!!

Spurs to win the League, domestic cups and conquer europe consistantly!

...Now, there is a thought worth holding dear at the forefront of the mind!

COYS!!!!!

 

Ramos whats all this? someone pass the tissues. Well anyway cant chat its early here and im off to work so good luck and all the best its been a lot of fun reading your posts and yes no one see's the game quite the way you do but we are all very different. I imagine you living in a tower in Ramos land surrounded by pink fluffy clouds hope its nice there. COYS.

 

Lol...I would pass the tissues but think I may of used them all up watching re-runs of the X-Factor...Hey, Mel B in that beige dress is enough to bring a tear anyones eye!

As for the Tower, well, you are nearly right, my friend. But I must, vehemently, deny having knowledge of ANY pink surrounding... (The Ram DOES has a reputation to maintain, here, you know)

But with that said, it's been a pleasure which compelled me to continue to return...

Until we meet again, Notnats....Farewell.

 

When the going gets tough the tough get going.... Safe journey Ramos to its been emotional.!

 

Hey, Fran, if your gonna miss me you can just say so, you know? LOL

Listen, 'Tough' was your words NOT mine, my friend. I am simply bored, and making you aware of the fact before I go. This way we all know where I stand and there can be no confusion.

Look, if it's consolation for my impending absence you seek, find it in the idea that I intend on returning one day.

 

I will miss u Ramos as I often sift thru the comments to find your posts so there you go!!! As I do no Nat's and felon. I'm sure you will return one day and no doubt like your past sabbatical it will coincide when an upturn in results comes about!!!! Jokes ! Happy Xmas Ram and a happy new year ya filthy animal x x

 

So where do we get a deep understanding and extensive knowledge of the game now?
oh well I was starting to think that guy would never leave... joke Ramos.
Anyway I have a feeling he will still be lurking around somewhere pretending to be mysterious. It doesnt matter how long you dissapear for old mate, Kaboul will still be shite. Take care and maybe we will see you in tbe new year.