Matchday discussion

Mason could have won the last 4 games and he was still nowhere good enough for the big rebuild needed.

 

Yep, no problem with that assessment. Can see that POV entirely,. I disagree but as you rightly say, its important to have different views on website.
As I say, for me ATM the key is Moneyball
A young manager like Carrick for example who was keen to work in that framework is one way forward.
They have to be good coaches, who can get the squad together. Basically be happy to work with what they're given. Sure have some say on transfers, but not the decisive say. If they're given a Spence Gil or Danjuma that they dont fancy, just give them a fair go.
Sure if you're a big name manager I can understand you will back your own views, if you come into a system that promises/allows that you can do that
But no more of that, lay it on the line, club purchases are what you're getting, do your best with all of them

 

Sorry but I don’t agree that the manager should get on with what he is given.He must have input or why do the job at all.The one thing we must stop is Levy dumping his cheap buys on the club.I can see the way a good club operates on transfers with Brighton.They obviously use technology but don’t tell me their manager was not consulted.I do agree that Spence and Gill were treated badly by Conte but that is because Levy did not consult

 

I would look at the purchase price of the players Brighton buy.
They can take a risk...... but I think if they were to be consistently top6 they would need to spend bigger...... which theyight find difficult.

could we buy a £10m forward to replace Harry for example..... and take a risk
having said that...... we don't have a good history of buying well even when we spend big

Lots of work to do this summer

 

Brighton paid17 mill forEstupinan 11 for encisco6 forBuenanotti and 8 for Gilmour.This was less than we paid forPorro and I k now who I prefer.They also soldCucurella Bissouma andTrossard for118 million. Good businessdont you think.good players don’t always
Have to cost a fortune but good due diligence can help

 

As I've already said, I don't mind the manager having an input, along with other members of the transfer commitee. But he shouldn't have the decisive say.
If you're going Moneyball, you have to trust the data and the expert analysis
We need a coach style manager rather than an old style manager.
And that coach should work with what he's given, whether he agrees with the decision or not.
If a manager wont accept that, they shouldnt be appointed. You either trust the process or you don't
Thats the way I see it, maybe Im wrong, probably am, but I honestly love the Moneyball model.

 

Does any body think Pep Klopp or arteta dont have final say on transfers

 

I dont know about Klopp, as I believe Liverpool have a strong data driven approach
Arsenal and Man City arent Moneyball teams, so not relevant to my argument. Indeed famously City are one of the archetypal Money Bags clubs, who kept throwing money at the situation, till they got it right. Now they can take a more measured approach, but apparently are paying Haaland 900k a week, so still spend big on occasions
The two most full on Money ball teams I know are Brighton and Brentford. Who has the final say there, I dont know. Be interesting if anyone knows the full story
But to me Moneyball means the data and its expert analysis are the paramount input in recruitment

 

...... as I said...... cheaper players of the required quality that fit into the managers plan.

If you 'always' rely on data you get a Spence (who may be..... but was never going to be given the chance)

 

Thats why if we go Moneyball, its vital to ensure the Spences get a chance because the manager has bought into the process, and not elevating his opinions above the data experts

 

Yeah I’m not sure what these advanced statistics you’re talking about… expected goals? that stat has some merit but its also misleading

Football is a team sport… a player’s performance relies heavily on his teammates… baseball is very much 1 v 1… a game of moments not a continuum

There’s nothing wrong with being analytical but football by nature isn’t a statistically driven sport… suggesting so doesn’t makes zero sense

ENIC have been forcing cheap buys on their managers for 20 years… why encourage more of it? Because a couple of smaller clubs have had some success?

A good DOF or recruitment director is paramount

 

I’m not sure if anyone is familiar with him but Ange Postecoglou would be my number one target if at all possible.

He is exactly the type of manager we need and has proven time and time again his ability to make players into a team.

If we can then shift players like Dier etc, I am certain he will drive us back up the league very quickly

 

I mention that because you can’t believe anything in the press about our manager situation. I really don’t believe Slot was our first choice in the same way I refuse to believe we have asked Real Madrid to swap Kane for Hazard (who’s work ethic would not fit with any manger looking to fix us)

 

The Conte, clearly Moneyball data driven approach can work in football, Brighton and Brentford have shown it to be the case
Apparently Levy is considering that approach too, and I'm all for it if true.

 

IMO you are both right…Isn’t it a little bit like playing football manager though? I’m all for using stats to make decisions but ultimately the stats don’t take into consideration the attitude of the player, the quality of the players teammates, the quality of the opposition, the league the players are in etc.

The main thing is to use the stats to give coaches the choice of who they want within their systems.

It’s been said on here that coaches make no difference to players but despite the style of football, Conte & JM proved that to be incorrect. The main challenge for the coaches was the ceilings that the players have due to their attitude and aptitude for buying into formations and instructions.

 

Thfc, the stats in advanced data driven models would precisely take into account variables such as attitudes, team mates, league quality.
Thats the whole point of data driven analysis, to quantify as much as possible. With the inexorable rise of AI, such analysis and modelling is getting ever more sophisticated.
Galileo wrote that the language of the universe is written in mathematics, AI pushes our translation capabilities ever further.
Of course, its impossible at the moment to fully quantify variables such as attitude, but much can be done with data to get a better grip on such variables
What is the player's card count, what type of tackles does he commit, has he fallen out with coaches, team mates, etc etc

 

Based on that logic we simply need to recall Lo Celso and Gil based on the data for them this season

 

And what of all the cases where it doesn’t? you think Brighton and Brentford are the only two who use analytics?

You just need to use common sense… and you shouldn’t be going all in on it if you don’t even know what statistics they’re looking at

 

There are far too many nuanced concepts to delineate… and the game… like life… is not linear

Or are you going to tell me the meaning of life is 42?

 

Not at all, perhaps you misunderstand the process. The data would include all of Lo Celso and Gil careers. The logical conclusion would be they're better off playing in Spain than England
Incidentally, both will be recalled anyway, AFAIK. I think Gil might still make it here, but hard to see Lo Celso doing so.