Matchday discussion

just on the ‘free header’.....

was it Dier on his knees when the ball was headed in?
I haven’t looked at it closely but did Henderson impede him? or was it one of our own?
......was Dier meant to be tracking Firmino?

having said that Kane and Bergwijn should have scored

 

I was surprised rodon wasn't added for that aerial presence later on also I must add. Having said that Liverpool are not really a big side and we have Davies dier Toby sissoko kane all 6ft plus and firminho the obvious danger. Disappointed

 

Cannot fault the work rate of bergwjin but he needs to improve upon his end product and that's not even before thinking about his 2 missed chances. He's young and can hopefully improve. Moura though a whole different story. He needs to go along with lamela and we need that third extra attacker before we can contemplate turning Liverpool over. Tactics were near on perfect just too many good counter attacks broke down despite being nearly executed but for poor touches and loose passes. Get the 2nd goal we probably pick em off for a third. Not a million miles away this side and once we add them two or three bits of quality the football can improve with it

 

That’s not what I said is it? I would have preferred a 5-0 win but it didn’t happen.

I’ve also not said that I expect to win every game?

Just to clarify, what I am saying is that if we are going to approach games where we only have possession for 21 minutes and we are consistently going to either misplace passes or play long balls that go straight to the opposition then we really need to win games like yesterday not celebrate the fact that we should have won or nearly did.

That game was terrible to watch and yes we should have scored a coupe of times earlier but we didn’t and we were punished as a result.

 

Sorry, my post that you responded to made it read like I was arguing with your point of view, which I wasn’t.

if you think that the way we played was enjoyable to watch, that’s fine. I thought it was awful but effective until we conceded. The point I am making when you are watching awful but effective football, it’s ok if you are picking up points and not having stoppage time concentration lapses. It’s not when you get punished. Also, I don’t think it’s fair to pick out possibly our worst ever performance and compare to this defeat.

I agree completely that the tired players should be replaced however the goal was not due to tiredness it was due to the only player with the ability to head the ball being left unmarked on the back post in the 91st minute.

Did someone knock over Dier, maybe, were they all tired, maybe but there was a clear run at goal which was unchallenged and that was the reason he scored. That to me is not the fault of JM, it’s the fault of the players in the system not defending until the very end and it cost us.

Would I have been happy with a point, yes but would I have enjoyed watching that game, no. It was not a great example of how we can play due to the quality of the defending for the full 95 minutes. Man City was a good example of the style/performance vs result.

let’s just hope they drop points and we pick ourselves up and move forward

 

Why is it ‘free header’?

Did anyone challenge Firmino that I missed?

There are 10 out field players and it was the 91st minute...unless I missed it, someone should have challenged/been in front of the run (even if Dier was fouled)

 

You can’t go to Anfield, play against one of the best home attacking sides in Europe, with 9 of the UCL team starting, concede close to 80% possession and hope to come away with a good outcome.

The game is about fine margins at this level and by failing to hang on to the ball for any period of the match, in the end, even right at the end, you’re going to come up short, and we duly did.

That first half was such a painful watch, then taking Lo Celso off so early, booking or not, and putting Moura on, was like painting yourself into a corner - your options from there were severely limited. Perhaps adding Rodon for the last 10 might have been a better option that putting Dele on. I’m a fan, but for me we came a poor second.

 

No idea why it was called a 'free header'

 

Dier was marking firminho edge of box , firminho makes the run and as Dier goes to follow him Henderson blocks off the run, giving Firminho a free header.
Dier went down very easily from this shoulder charge for such a big bloke , it was clever play from Pool and they got away with it and in turn the 3 points.

 

Such a good point that has been missed...Dier on occasion can play ok but we really need a decent CB to play alongside Toby.

He is a reasonably big CB and he should be prepared for nudges and shoved in his own box

 

I'd say we need 2 ready to start CBs as Toby is way past his best and the likes of Sanchez/Dier/Rodon aren't ever going to grow into peak Toby/Jan combo

 

It was an unchallenged header in our box so
I would say it’s a free header?

not sure what you meant by “just on the ‘free header’.....”

 

THFC is 100% correct...

The only mitigation for this weekly **** show is success... and even then it's thoroughly debatable

Anything less is a complete waste of everyone's time

 

Apologies....... I was just suggesting the it might have become a free header as Dier was impeded by Henderson.

All defenders mark particular players in these defensive situations.
So it seems odd that by intention no-one was marking an opposition forward. ( in this case Firmino).

 

Ahh sorry, I understand and think you are absolutely right. I think my worry with it is exactly as Felon stated which is Dier should not be going down (different if it was Son or Moura) then the lack of others trying to deal with the ball as ultimately there were 9 other players in the box and the main aim of defending is to clear the ball and stop the danger. I think given our defensive style, someone else should have attacked the ball, not leave it for Dier (or anyone else for that matter) to try and clear it (especially in 90th minute)

 

Mourinho was incorrect claiming "The best team lost!". The correct would be "The better manager lost". Mou bettered Klopp in this tie, but his team was not the best of two. Bergwijn needs a few years to reach the required level adequate to Kane and Son to make front 3. Neither Moura or Lamela can do. Kane should have scored, though. Pool won due to sucker punch, they didn't deserve it. The draw should have been a fair result.

 

any body who thinks we should have attacked Liverpool Willy nilly is deluded just watching them destroy Palace which we could not do and still 25min s left current score 0 -5 At least we made 3 good chances and on a better day would have scored 3

 

Do people believe that world class players only play world class when instructed too?
Do people believe we have a world class squad?
Do people think a manager instructs top players not to keep possession, not to be creative, not to make intelligent moves/passes?
Do people think that if a player dares do something creative or effective they're in danger of a telling off and dropping?

We have players like N'Dombele, LoCelso, Lamela, Moura, Alli, Winks who are so highly talked of by a large number of our fans.

If they're so good why can't they produce anything consistent on the pitch ?
Why do they look so bang average against other average players ?
Why are they talked up so much when their output translated into the pitch leaves so much to be desired?
And why is the Manager always scapegoated to protect them?

The fact of the matter is you can only play as expansive as what is to hand and as much of in denial as many are the team/squad is Kane & Son & a past it Toby with a sketchy Lloris.
I don't care if Alli scored a goal once, Moura got a hatrick, N'Dombele did a step over or Winks is 'Spurs though'.
The proof is in the performance and far too many of these players wouldn't stand out at Sheff Utd and wouldn't probably be included in that side due to lack of Character.

I'd like anyone to reply in defence of some of these aforementioned players and explain why it's the Manager and not their fault they can't perform consistently better against worse on paper sides?

 

You don't have to have a better players to win a game. You need those to win the league. The conversation was about LFC game. Spurs should have won it and to spoil their Anfield record. Spurs do not have players to win the league. That is why we are the Top 4 contender only. We can win UEL and one or both domestic cups.
JM has turned THFC around . We are now where we should be at. So he has succeeded already. To win the title Mou needs a few upgrades. Given he had won titles with lesser players he has now, the Pool and City are the reasons for such a need. The loss to Klopp demonstrated just that.

 

I couldn't agree more, but why doesn't Mourinho go full-Klopp, dancing like a dervish on the touchline, if the players are going against orders in dropping ever deeper to defend a lead (as in the Palace, West Ham and innumerable other games of my recollection), instead of going for the jugular as we all want them to? How can we end-up under the cosh to those sort of teams if our players are such world-beaters? We seem to specialise in weak characters, who shrivel under pressure Sanchez-style, instead of thriving on it, or start playing only when the pressure's off, as with the Ajax CL comeback from 3-0 down in 2019, and it seems that a rigid system as practised this season by Mourinho is the only way to get consistent team performances out of our rag-tag bunch. Whether it'll be good enough to get us over the winning line even in the league cup or EL (let alone the PL) is another matter.