Matchday discussion

Dear Felon, How to forget Mourinho in this analysis? Ok the squad is not very good but how to leave almost all the match on the ground a defense which was exceeded with each attack of the wolves? How to leave Dele 95 minutes when it is so bad? How can you not dare to bring in Parrott earlier when you lose 3-2 with about 20 minutes to play? How do we make Winks - a championship player - our captain when everything he does offensively does nothing (out no goal/no assis man...) ? And how to leave your defense with so little filter in the midfield? Shame on you, Mourinho! Under Pocchetino we weren't great, but here, we become ridiculous!

 

Agree with Alli, Parrot & Winks comments entirely but unless there's much credible other options what else can be done?
This is Pochettinos mess, JM currently is being crucified if he plays defensive and then he's crucified when we go forward because of how poor the defence is.
All 3 of Wolves goals were from defenders ball watching instead of marking or reading the game that's not on Jose that's on ability and on pitch organisation or the sheer lack of to be precise.
When are these incompetent half hearted players gonna take some responsibility ?
Or these parasitic owners ?
It seems they all get a pass every game for zero commitment, errors everywhere, zero leadership, limited movement, slow passing.... The list is endless , unless JM is gonna put a kit on and run the Defence and Midfield its a bit hard to just pin the blame on him for this lack of basics within a professional sports team.

 

Sorry felon I don’t often disagree with you but if the goals came from ball watching is not that what a coach stops players doing by his coaching methods.i agree with you that the quality is missing but there is no way is he using the players to their best abilities.You and I were both critical of Pochetino over the last 2 years but that does not mean his replacement is going to get a free pass if his ideas are just as confusing .Surely you can see some fault in his continuing excuses and total lack of judgement of a player.I can’t remember when Moura last had a half decent game but is ever present .Also what has he done to improve ndombele or sessengon and by telling everybody that Parrot is not ready yet.What has that done to the boys confidence even if he is correct keep it in house

 

If we are talking defenders, Poch had almost completely squeezed Toby out he was on verge of leaving, Aurier contributed nothing under him also, Tanganga wasn't getting a look in and we were flipping from 3 to 4 to 5 at the back with anyone's guess who'd be playing where and what we had was an error prone slow defence.
Has JM improved on this? Id say Aurrier is a better player under JM, I'd rather have Toby than not and Tanganga looks 10 times better than Foyth.
So I'd judge him more on that if we're talking about what the manager is doing.
The problem is that we have no protection in front of them and they're either slowing or simply not good/intelligent enough players.
You can't make certain players top 4 level, some might get carried there but they soon get exposed especially when the better players aren't performing or aren't available.
This squad is littered with average players many with talent that would just about get them in the relegation sides but with a work rate/end product and attitude that would only get them on the bench.
What have N'Dombele and Sess done to improve their selves? 1 can't last 20 minutes without breaking down the other looks scared and doesn't even have a specific position he's any good at.
I'm all for Parrot getting a chance but is this where we are at pinning our hopes on an 18yr old boy in the hopes he drags our team out of this mess?

When it comes to the defence what would you do differently than what Poch & now JM have/are doing?
They're all the same players except JM has less options than Pochettino had and the 2 stalwarts legs have gone.

 

Just look at the 2 line ups today player for player Wolves are/were superior that's what people need to understand the current squad isn't good enough it's been neglected and weakened over time with poorer replacements, ageing players, players sold and not replaced, serial underperformers clung to.....

The whole thing needs a major overhaul, Son & Kane carry the whole circus

 

Sorry felon we will have to agree to disagree.Aurier has improved under Mourino as an attacker but is still a total liability as a defender and is out of position usually when we concede.i would rather have Toby in than Sanchez but don’t tell me Mourino has improved him because he has not.most teams have a settled back four and don’t change every game.I know we don’t have world class defenders but please decide on a system and stick to it that’s what coaching is.Who would have thought we would miss Sissoko so much in midfield.Our midfield does not do the defensive duties it should but with the liabilities at full back they have their work cut out.I really want Mourino to succeed but at the moment I don’t think he can change his ways and come to terms with the current day football.But having said that would I trust levy to do anything positive for the playing side of the club NO

 

Mourinho has 7 defenders to work with 2 full backs, 1 a liability 1 bang average. 5 CBs Toby Jan Sanchez Tanganga Foyth, 2 are struggling due to age, Sanchez has gone massively backwards, Foyth has always been sh;te and finally Tanganga who has about 5 games under his belt.

Pochettino had all of these plus Rose plus KWP plus Trippier so had more choice which offers more flexibility, different tactics etc yet was still a complete shambles way before his sacking.

So tell me what you'd do different that Mourinho could do with such limited options?

With the personnel at hand how would you set up to be better defending?

 

I mean seriously if there were any better personnel I could genuinely understand the frustrations but this has been unfolding for over a year/year n a half and the only difference is it's been weakened.

 

when did Foyth get a game at all under Mourino!.??I personally have always thought Wales used Davies in his best position which was one of three in a back five.I would play him there with Toby and Sanchez with sessengon and tanganga. At wing back and stick with it in training to get it right.stop saying that Mourino has not got anything to work with as he was brought in to improve the defensive shambles left by Poch but all he does is moan about lack of strikers.Even if Kane and Son were fit our style wouldn’t change .Do you think he ever thinks outside the box and would try to do something different like Sheffield United who have two attacking centre halves and don’t have super star strikers But still defend properly.I know that Sanchez and foyth have not set the world alight but they are both very young and both seem to get in there national teams on a regular basis so they must have some ability so must be able to improve with good coaching.This is my gripe with Mourino at the moment that he seem capable of improving our defensive work at all

 

far too many players who are not top6 capable.
dress it up with formations but JM cannot improve them enough.

If we are to remove the dross it will take a few transfer windows.
And of course we need to have clubs who want to buy them.

Having said that....JM really needs to pick a back 4 and stick with it.
He also needs to pick a DM and leave him there.

I can see JM sacrificing Kane and Alli to bring in funds.
And NDumb if we will ever see a fraction of what we paid for him.

 

I think Spurs could have kept Poch, have same results with him and save money paid to MP and JM (his pay is double of Poch) to fund the rebuild the squad is needed. Mou is no doubt more accomplished manager and the one, I am sure, that will be able to make Levy to spend on quality performers, but the money invested in change so far looks lake a waste. I only hope to be as wrong as P reed is.
Norwich is next. Let us hope for the FA cup. COYS!!!

 

Just to remind that JM was hired and Poch let go in the assumption that rebuild wasn't needed, squad is okay and just needs a new voice. JM has said that players are great. Departure of Toby was prevented, only CE left. The new players were purchased to balance previous and current losses, as a refreshment of the squad, not a part of rebuild. The core was intended to be kept. That means that with return of Sissoko, Kane and Son JM must be on his horse.

 

With every game feeling like a potential car crash, my fears, our fears, were confirmed by another predicable and disastrous performance.

Let’s start with the line up. Yet another magic set-up from the Special One. I know what my reaction was. We cannot play 3 at the back, period. The back four should have been Tanganga, Toby, Jan, Davies. Dier started well, but he along with the other defenders had a mare of a second half. Who was marking the space that Jimenez had for the winner, who ffs. Keeps Aurier out of the defence, keeps Davies out of being a wing back.

Midfield Aurier Dier, Winks, Lo Celso. Up front Dele and Bergwijn. As for playing Parrott for 3 minutes, really.

For Wednesday, no Moura, start Parrott, full stop. Sure we all know about the demise under Poch, the loss of all of the quality, but we are where we are, stop winging Mourinho and earn your £15m.

Not to be forgotten is that Wolves are better than us, individually and collectively and have several players that would walk straight into our side. We lost 3-1 last year.....perhaps we’ve actually got better.....you’ve got to laugh or you’d cry.

COYS

 

I find some of the comments to be quite odd on occasion.

Poch has gone, did we play better under him? Sometimes....JM is in, have we improved? Not that I’ve seen.

Do we struggle to defend but play open, attacking football like yesteryear? No.

Do we stick 9 men behind the ball and punt it like a pub team? Yes.

The players we have are either experienced PL players or internationals. I do not, for one minute, buy they are not capable of playing in a formation that suits them and at least giving a good account of themselves.

Please tell me the last time anyone was genuinely pleased with a performance...win, lose or draw? Not a result....a performance.

JM has come in with the primary job of sorting our defence out, either with formation or personnel. He has been able to do no better than Poch.

A couple of comments have been about how great a job he did to keep Toby....he didn’t keep Toby, London and £150k per week kept him. If a top side was genuinely interested, they would have got him for the right money IMO.

my question for you all is, do we stick or twist in the summer? Based on performances, I know my answer right now however I’m happy to give the rest of the season to see if we have any kind of improvement (without spending on a truck load of 30 year old ex favourites like William and Matic)

 

Sorry, one more thing...I know it’s paper talk but let’s review the players being with us:

Ben Foster (36)
Pierre Hoiberg
Chris Smalling
Willian
Matic

It’s sounds like we are trying to build a soccer aid team if any of them are true.

 

What is this man Mourino doing in his press conferences saying spurs were unlucky and he had no problem with the team apart from Wolves individual qualities and tactically spurs were good.Who is he trying to kid us or himself.I wanted him to take over from poch because I thought he would say it as it is and not give us the rubbish that pochetino was.I thought Man united were wrong to sack him but I am starting to see why they did .Yes we have been unlucky with injuries but so have Chelsea and man united which is the only reason we are not adrift of the top six yet.I think we are going to finish in our lowest position for a long time unless he changes very quickly

 

Forgot to comment on THFCspost about players we are supposedly looking at .If this is correct we are soon going to be a championship team.

 

My problem with bemoaning JM currently is that it's akin to berating Lewis Hamilton because he cant get a Fiesta to perform like a Ferrari.

We have 1 wing back so can't play a wing back system properly plus Aurrier is a terrible defender.
Then we have a 1 full back who's not a wing back because he lacks pace and any end product going forward , as a defender is also basically average.
You play the pair and you get a mixture of not very good at either defence or attack.

The other option is to play either or both Jan & Tanganga there both are not gonna bomb down the wings, Jan will struggle with pacey wingers and Tanganga is still very raw and a CB at heart.

Any of these combinations have their limits and their frailties.
If JM plays it safe with nothing going forward he's accused of parking the bus and being negative, if he tries to go forward he's lambasted for the defence being suspect.

This is before we get to the CB and DM conundrum, our 2 best CBs are now showing signs of age despite being technically very good they are in a league where teams are built around pressing and pace (except us) which is exposing them more and more.
The alternative is Sanchez who seems imo to get worse every game, he has pace but can't read a game, doesn't know how to mark and gets bullied when he's not making mistakes.

DM who's the actual specialist in this position because once again it's a makeshift/makedo with a combination of Dier/Sissoko both extremely limited players both not especially good at it.

How are people not seeing it for what it is and has been for ages????

Move up the field are Winks & N'Dombele who anyone would want in a dog fight with them? Winks the passenger whos not a DM not a CM not a Box to Box not a play maker just an academy poster boy who wouldn't get a game anywhere else let alone the captaincy.... Or our £64million cameo player who can't seem to get fit enough to turn up for a full 90minutes. Has shown glimpses of talent but that's it glimpses.

LoCelso is basically Lamela mkII commitment is there but as a CE replacement he's not gonna score the same amount of goals or get the same amount of assists, whether or not CE drifted in n out of games he still effected games more than ground coverage will ever do. Another one who doesn't really have a position that anyone can confidently say he is or does. We will however persist with him running around (for 54mil) because that's what spurs fans do and they'll tell others they don't understand how good he actually is 'potentialy world class' given another 6 years....
Gedson??? Anyone???? (No comment)

Then we have our current Mish mash crop of superstar for a game then championship level for another 10 array of attacking mids come forwards.
Alli the hip hop insta star with the tricks n flicks often just drifting through games. Moura scored a hatrick once and has lived off it ever since even gets to play target man at 5ft4" such is his prowess.
Lamela anyone seen him? Still in sick bay and settling in????
Bergwijn actually looks like he might have something to offer certainly hasn't looked like a rabbit in headlights and scores goals.

And that's it, trying to think if I've missed anyone thats potentially pushing this lot for a start but then I remembered we had no depth before and we've done nothing but sell players.

Actually no we have Lloris the liability, Sessegnon again no one knows what he is or does not even him, parrot a boy and skipp.

If anyone has any alternative ideas on how to shore that up without completely parking the bus or play expansive attacking football I'd like to hear it.

Until JM gets his own team put together I can't see how people can expect more. Especially without Son & Kane it's beyond unreasonable.

 

Hey Felon, everything that you have said, I agree with. I think that you are 100% correct with all of it.

The only thing I don’t get and I can’t understand why you can’t see it is have we improved, at all, under JM? I am not disagreeing with anything you have said about the squad or the injuries.

But (there is always a but) we have not looked any different/better than we have at any stage in the last 5 years.

I know about getting own style, new players but the job (that he is paid £15 million for) is to get the best out of what we have as a very bare minimum.

I like JM, think he is funny but he has not improved is in any way shape or form, in actual fact it’s quite the opposite.

Yes we have been on a decline and yes the players across the pitch have been slowing down but his job was to halt the decline and improve the performances using his technical knowledge and tactical experience.

he has failed pretty miserably. He probably will spend $150 million and change some players but based on what you have seen, do you think he will change the style of football and general attitude around the place?

 

Sorry Felon, just to add to this...

Look at Chelsea who are the club in the most similar position to us.

They have had heaps of injury to key players for long parts of the season, so can’t use that.

They can’t defend and also have a flappy keeper.

Performances are very inconsistent however have they improved under Lampard? The answer is yes.

Is Lampard the right man for them? Who knows and don’t care but has the squads attitude and performances been better than what his predecessor managed with exactly the same players and heaps of injuries. The answer again is yes.

Therefore does he deserve a crack over 12 months, I would say yes as much as I can’t stand him.

All of those things, we haven’t shown