Progression? Let's see...

After last nights debacle, I have spent done time looking at how far Spurs have come since we reached the quarter finals of the Champions league the last time we were in the competition.

And it's proving tricky to say we have come a long way. Since ENIC took the reigns at White Hart Lane, we have even pretty much starved of success and every focus has been on the new stadium.
And whilst WHL is too small and we do need a bigger stadium, things on the pitch have fluctuated.

Under Ramos we won the League Cup and then started the next season as relegation fodder before Arry took over and a season later had us in the Champions league beating much better opposition than we have faced this time around.

Since then we have had AVB who was useless and now Poch.
Last season we had a chance to win the title but in the end we gained our entry back into the Champions league and were given a favourable group. We also had the chance to play at Wembley in front of 80,000 passionate fans.
All the hard work Poch and the players had put in was about to come to fruition. In the summer it was clear we needed extra depth and much better quality throughout the squad. Poch said he was happy but did add Janssen who may come good but the £30 million pound signing of Sissoko was a joke. He was part of a relegated Newcastle team who were woeful and he is an absolute waste of money.

Our performances on the league bar 2 have been poor although we remain unbeaten. How is anybody's guess but we have not played well.

In the Champions league we have been an embarrassment. And now it seems all of lady seasons work to get back in the top 4 has been wasted. If we fail to qualify next season it could hurt the club badly. Lloris and Kane may avoid new contracts further and we will be back at square bloody one!!

So, has this Spurs team really progressed?

I will leave it to you to discuss.

 

We have progressed but let’s not forget we were stagnating under ‘Arry. The CL performances haven’t been good enough, that’s obvious. I read a supposed ‘ITK’ a few weeks ago, before the CL had begun & he said that Poch had been told by the powers that be to forget the CL & focus on the title. Seems that has come true …..

As for the contacts of Hugo & Harry, the club need to tell them that they’re not getting new contacts now but they will be reviewed nearer the time. If they don’t like it, the can be sold. I’m fed up with people like Berbatov, Modric & even Bale refusing to play for us because they wanted a big move. Sell them all & get players in who want to play.

 

Unfortunately we nearly made good last year when the Top4 were poor but we didn't, could not even get second, this year we really are flattering to deceive, yes we are unbeaten but we are poor in almost every game.
Our transfer window was a disgrace, we may of bought ourselves three players that will stay here for the money not because we are challenging for anything.
Sissoko is another Ade in my eyes.
Jansen just not quite good enough, he is young but does not seem to have anything in his locker that will prove him a winner.
N'Koudou, who knows, Poch seems not to want to play him.
Getting rid of the likes of Chadli, Bentaleb and Mason before Carroll was an error. All three of them would have offered something this season.
Possession is not king in football as Poch appears to think, scoring goals us.
Rotation in non existent with Poch, he seems to be very one dimensional, also the training we do has made our players look shattered already and it's only November!
Where is the pace in the team?
As much as Kane and Lloris may say about being happy here, they will earn double if not more elsewhere and will get a chance to compete and win trophies elsewhere, this is important to them.
We got into the CL after five or six years in the EL, natural progression I suppose and then we field a weakened team why?
If we do not get CL next season, and why would we playing like we are, then there may well be an exodus of players wanting CL, Kane, Lloris, Lamela, Verts, Toby, Eriksen, Walker, Rose, Son could all look to move on, they have a short career to win and earn plus they have no ties or loyalty to Spurs.
Some will say Kane is one of our own but really if it was your career would you stay at toothless Spurs or move to say Real Madrid and test yourself against the best whilst warning double the money and actually winning trophies.
We are at the crossroads with Spurs at the moment, will Wembley and the new stadium propel us to greater heights or will they become a noose around a mid tables coulda been team?
Time will tell, the evidence is not looking good.

 

I hate to say it but we'll never progress beyond 5th or 6th place and continue winning nothing under enic and levy. Their aim is to make a profit for themselves and their investors which is why levy's main reason for existence is clinching commercial deals, bringing trophies to the club runs a very poor second, his transfer dealings are solely designed to save pennies and nothing else, Poch never gets the players he wants.
I can't believe so many spurs fans appear unable to see this? I'm also really getting pissed off with idiots who still continue to bitch about HR. That team played some of the best football in europe and players like Eden Hazard wanted to join us above anybody else. That team over-achieved considering once again his lack of support from levy (Nielsen and Saha?). I'll never forget that CL run as long as I live and so called spurs fans who continue to slag off HR are IMO sick in the head.
How long before Poch realizes he's nothing but a fall guy for levy's lack of support and move on? And so the same sad old cycle starts again. Then I suppose in a few years the *****s amongst the spurs following will slag off Poch as well? Pathetic, it's levy and enic that are the problem, get real.

 

Poch out, Klinsmann in! Only joking .......

 

Spurs don't look like a team rather 11 players working there socks of the ball ,and not making good decisions with the ball,the players look lost i think they need to put dier back in midfeild,and maybe wanyama in defence,son starting on the left,

 

Everyone knows sissoko a panic buy. because the great businessman leaves it so late he's backed himself into a corner. everyone knows in their heart Mitchell left because of transfer non policy, and poch will suffer the same as rednapp and avb, u get what your given and see what you can do. the great businessman basically has spent approx 100m on attackers, who can't dribble, pass sideways and backwards and retain possession instead of making things happen and don't score goals. winks will not be a spurs player in 4 years, much the same as every other academy player bar Kane and king, I think levy sees it as an opportunity to put young players in the shop window and turn an 8-10m profit on them. poch must take blame for cup competitions his selections are baffling, full strength in Azerbaijan, not in Monaco? and also for saying he was happy with the squad in Aug, only to reverse that last night. but the bigger problem lies in the fact we have an investment Co who look at numbers that's all. if he doesn't invest in quality on the pitch he can move kenilworth road down from luton cos this new one won't be full so wheres the business sense there? dark times are looming I fear

 

Last night and our cl performances have been disappointing however so have some comments about Poch and the team. There have been many posts asking for Wimmer to play Ericsson to be dropped Walker slated after West Ham etc. No one considered Mason. Carroll, Chugger, good enough.IMO our poor displays are down to injuries which we avoided last season loss of form Dembele, Ericson and Dier playing out of position and not alongside Dembele. As well as Wanyama has played the balance of the side is not as good as last season. Also do not believe Son has long term future at club. what we need are 4/5 top quality additions to squad which is easier said than done. Money does not always solve problems. and I think hard as this is right now we have to be patient and realise that it will take time to get where we all want to be. To finish i would say I have complete faith in Poch and his tactics etc

 

Weve been stagnating badly for ages, theres many come and go but few things remain Levy Enic and long suffering Fans.

Poch has steadied a ship of turmoil 1 in the long line of Levy c0ck ups in AvB n Tim who even between them finished with more points than Poch's Title contenders (work that out if u can).

Only the Levy Police can justify 16 years of doing next to nothing, the conveyor belt of false dawns, the tragic Transfer Windows and Sagas, short changing the managers

Ive spent years arguing with the Levy Police and the blinkered dreamers-

Spurs fans need to Wake up and stop making excuses for Levy and accepting mediocrity.

Plenty of us give our life and soul to the club just to paid back with what? High prices? low expectations? zero return?

And just to top it off were now playing the most boring Football ive seen at Spurs without a Single player in the side that gets you off your seat.

Thats 'Progress' for ya!

 

I like that...worth a rumour being planted

 

U know what Johno, I wouldn't joke! I've heard that twice already today. Lose to Chelski Saturday and the media knives will be out for Poch. Jurgen to the Lane will happen one day...

 

How far have we come...

On Saturday at 4-30 when the teams are released, write them down side by side.

Then change Chelsea's team, substituting any of our players into their side, based on your own view of their ability.

Will there be many. Will there be any.

This is a BIG game. Poch doesn't prepare us for big games. Forget MC. This is different. We've just disgraced ourselves in the CL. We disgraced ourselves there last season. This is BIG. If Poch doesn't get this right, then there will be more real evidence that he is just not good enough.

I've had my doubts. I've shared them. He royally f'd up last night. CL not important. The f**k it is. To me and you and the 85,000 who have been filling Wembley and so many more.

I've had enough of the dross. I can sit at home, watch most of the games, and save myself the pain of being there, and a grand.

How far......not very far.

COYS

 

The club at some point have to grow a pair and accept you have to bring in a few quality players, not 'potential' talent, which just results in bang average individuals being sold onto lesser clubs and continuous under achievement (when it absolutely matters, the big matches).

Yes develop some of the academy players but alongside quality; the money is there, don't be fooled. Look at what we spent in the summer, plenty; this could/should have been invested in one or two top drawer players. But no, that shows ambition and is logical. It wouldn't be Spursy.

However, what is Spursy was the fact we had a £30m player on the bench last night with just an inexperienced kid out of his depth in the middle of the park instead. Only Spurs. U just can't make this up.

 

Have to disagree on this. Bentaleb and Mason were not at the level we need if we want to kick on and deliver some honours. Would they get into the starting 11 of our direct rivals? Absolutely not!

 

We might yet not even qualify for the Europa league. Already out of the league cup, Europe could be gone altogether and all of sudden another trophyless season looks likely.
With less games than our rivals we should then win the title.
And Lord Lucan will pop by on Shergar.

 

sIt looks like MP decided to sacrifice Europe for Chelsey. Again it is, although it isn't a cup final that's looming. However, Spurs can beat CSKA at Wembley and continue in EL. Thursday games are harder to take, but Levy will continue to enjoy Wembley revenues once or twice.
Overall, team is currently at very low form with most players struggling at once. I still believe they will turn a corner. Things like that happen, it is a long season and it is a football. It is too early to look back.
There is also issue with contracts that affected players no matter what is said about it. Rooney makes 260,000 a week, just think about that number. COYS!!!

 

Tough to watch for sure but entirely predictable it was ... We've been piss poor right through the competition , the last 2 & 1/2 Champs Lg games have been embarrassing and although the team sheet didn't inspire confidence in any way the evidence so far suggests it prob wouldn't have mattered who started .. For whatever reasons our form in Europe over last few seasons has never matched our league form , and before someone suggests our league form this year has been just as bad , I don't agree , yes we've been poor in the league but this is a different level of sh1t ... We all have our own ideas of what the causes are , it's all been covered above or on the other thread so there's no point in me adding to it ..

As far as getting rid of the Masons , Chadlis & the likes over the summer goes , of course it was the right decision , the problem is the replacements haven't worked out so far and it's all compounded by injuries , lack of progress & development and loss of form by most of our perceived first 11 - 15 .. Nightmare stuff ..

As far as winning trophies goes , once we're out of the Lg Cup , our chances of winning a trophy are severely damaged .. Getting knocked out of Europe might look like another opportunity gone but all our form over last couple of years in both competitions wouldn't give us a chance in hell of going all the way in either .. In theory getting knocked out of both at this stage gives us a clear run at the F.A ... In reality , for the moment at least , dream-on ......... We have as much chance of winning a Lg as we have winning a Champs Lg I.m.o ....


As for Mr Poch ....... Lol , shows how fast perceptions can change ... I'm not anti Poch by any means but in fairness a lot of the questions been asked by my fellow forumites are legitimate ... I hope for everyone's sake he has the answers .. At this stage I'm far from convinced , but i.m.o he's done enough so far to be given a fair crack at getting it right ... Time will tell ..

Back to the original question , have we progressed since our last ( and only ) Champs Lg outing ? ...
Of course we haven't .. Bale , Modric , Van De Vaart , Ledley , lol how do you replace that ... I'm sure you all seen or read the rumors about the figures involved in a couple of their new contracts lately .... Ready made top quality players don't come anywhere close to the " less then 100k a week " bracket ... Lol ... As Poch would say himself , " Is difficult " ........

 

If we drop into the Europa I believe that we will revert back to WHL.

 

Being in the Champions league brings with it additional revenue that could be used to increase top players wages but now we are out of that.
Giving new contracts is all well and good but Spurs seem to be offering them out like sweets right now. Kane has had 2 increases at least recently, Alli one and I'm sure others have has a couple 2.
That shows that Spurs just want to look after their top players or that they are **** scared they will leave. I have a feeling it's the latter.
I expect Kane to stay for 1 more season after this regardless , but I think Lloris will move on. He joined a club promising Champions league football and a successful future. So far he's had to save Spurs from being totally stuffed in the Champions league and won nothing.
The new stadium is exciting, but if we don't work hard to success, we will end up like the spammers. A big stadium with an empty feel to it.

As for those calling to sack Poch, I do t think that is the way to go at all. He isn't doing himself too many favours at the minute and he needs to start realising he needs to change tactics, whatever the hell they are this season, and getting Spurs back to playing fast, fluid and attacking football.
His objective is now simple. Top 4 and another, better prepared Champions league campaign next season.
We have constantly changed the manager over ENIC years and doing so again will not do us any favours. However, failing to qualify for the CL would put Levy and his twitchy trigger finger on alert.
Klinnsmann coming available won't be going unnoticed either.
Poch has had it pretty easy up to now, but a defeat to Chelsea would put him under serious pressure. In which case, he is in charge of his and Spurs destiny.

It's a case of change, or be changed.

 

Have we improved since our last CL campaign? Yes, undoubtedly. In the previous campaign we had two world-class players making the difference and without them we would have been mid table at best. Now we take top six for granted, we expect to be in the top four and we even have delusions of winning the league. This CL campaign has been a disappointment, but considering that we have not taken our European ventures seriously in the past few seasons, we were not going to change that mentality so quickly just because it was CL and not Europa League.
I have to blame Poch for the performances, especially Tuesday, because when the whole team looks out-of-sorts, individual players cannot take the blame, especially when the defence were strangers to each other and Wanyama was being asked to do a 'Dier' (form a three-man defence) which he has never done before and does not have the discipline to do. Having said that, we are a better team, with a better coach/manager and it would be total madness to get rid of him. Hopefully he will learn, and learn quickly.