Matchday discussion

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by bigfran, September 14, 2018.

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  1. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    The view from the tea leaves are not good Felon. The Mancs strong and/or getting stronger, Chelski looking very sharp and dangerous, Gooners with young talent coming through and us with no money to spend for the foreseeable future.... the waiting list for season tickets might be getting a lot shorter and very soon....
     
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  2. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    It’s difficult to know where to start, yesterday was so bad, 2019/20 has been shite.

    ANy team with Aurier and Sanchez as their right sided last line of defence will surely fail. Likewise a left side of Davies at best a squaddie, and Dier, who if your’re going to play him he has to play right side CB - he had/has no left foot to deal with Pogba. This weekend I’d probably go with Toby/Dier or Sanchez/Jan/Davies

    If you’re going to have two holding players for me it’s Sissoko and Winks If he’s fit. Lo Celso is too deep to hurt anybody at present.

    Midfield - Bergwijn LoCelso Son

    Up Front: An out of form HK

    Even rest Kane, put Son up top and bring Lamela into midfield, but with him working with not against Gio.

    It’s a rag bag. No chances created, a defence that can’t mark, can’t cover back, a pedestrian midfield, a knackered Kane...apart from that it’s great.

    Well I’ve been quite impressed by what Everton have achieved recently ........do you think Ancelotti might like another contract in London.....

    COYS
     
  3. Cheshuntboy Guest

    This time last year we were clearly in a mess, with a team that had fallen apart in the PL, had failed abjectly in the CL final, had a manager whose moodiness and gloom were all too evident, and whose sacking in October was justified and necessary. A year on, and nothing's changed apart from a different gloomy manager, the common factor being Levy/ENIC, whose bleak near-twenty year tenure at Spurs is staring disaster in the face, with no CL, no realistic prospect of top four anytime soon (by which I mean the next five years), and every likelihood of a half-empty stadium when 'normal' football resumes. Bringing back Pochettino will sort all that out, will it? Really?
     
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  4. Big fran Guest

    Every single combination you can come up with in our centre mid duo just doesn't work and lacks quality. We have too many no8s not enough no 4s. Skipp a natural holding mid and winks can play there but imo still more of an 8 but still not really good enough just the best of a bad bunch really. I'd play a mid 3 with a no4 pivot and the two 8s flanking him. Give our midfield more legs and protect that bk 4. Let the full bks stay home. Gio needs to play much higher than last night with his ability and goals assists record at betis on the left of the middle 3. On the right a battle between sissoko ndombele gedson alli winks. Dier or skipp as the pivot.
     
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  5. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    We have a Goal keeper that has howlers in him, poor distribution, inspires no confidence and is the 'captain'.
    Full backs that are the worst in the league I'd swap bottom place Norwich Aaron's & Lewis for in a heart beat.
    Our best CB pairings legs and minds have gone with 1 about to walk on a free.
    Our current pair of CBs are still worse than the vets at their age n mobility.
    We don't have a DM period.
    LoCelso & N'Dombele have glimpses of quality but neither are exactly running things, making a difference or commanding an actual role/position.
    Everything Sissoko lacks in ability is equal to how ineffective and fraudulent Winks' contribution is neither are good enough.
    Lamela/Alli/Moura seem to be in a battle for who can be the most highly paid pointless passenger (although winks is way ahead of all of them)
    Son & Bergwijn both have quality but again are inconsistent hot/cold.
    Kane is broken, still scoring goals because of his natural finishing ability but his overall presence movement etc is on the wane. (Plus heads looking less and less in it and who can blame him)

    When you compare our team player for player with any of the other big sides (not living off past form) you'd be pushed to find any of our side getting in any other team which is a damning example of how far we've regressed and others have improved.

    If you mention players need to be sold you get a band of Spurs fans screaming about giving Lamela more time, how you're mad to suggest Alli isn't world class and irreplaceable, some will say defence needs to be built around Dier, Lloris is still world class.......

    It's pure delusion n has been for a while, fine if we have no genuine ambition (please note a building that a massive loan was taken out to fund while pretending we were saving up for it and not spending 10 years pre it's build is not ambition)

    If we are being serious big big changes are drastically needed instead of talking up the Winks' of the club and seeing them for what they are - Not Good Enough, they don't need time or afforded a spot they're never gonna be of the level to kick us on.

    Until some proper management of personnel takes place and some ballsy pro active decisions are made/backed/invested then just like the last 20 years we're flogging a dead horse.

    The ENIC con continues ......
     
  6. Big fran Guest

    That team was so poorly set up yesterday it didn't really resemble a mourinho team at all to me I don't even know what it was about. No def mid to start. A double pivot of two no8s with no positional responsibility. Seen some casuals getting excited by the line up as we had 4 attackers but football don't work that way otherwise we would have 11 attackers wouldn't we. Most teams set up with 5 defenders and five attackers or 6 and 4. That's standard coaching. We went with 4 and 6 attack minded players. Then aurier goes missing too so we're looking at 3 and 7 when our phase of play breaks down as often as it did. Then you analyse the service kane receives. Aurier can't cross. Sissoko can't thread a pass. The other 3 are all similar who like to rely on pace and dribble/hold onto the ball so kane makes runs don't receive ball, feeding off scraps until he gets disheartened and stops making runs. The only bit of ability to thread him is Gio who is far far too deep to influence and find kane. It was carnage.
     
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  7. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    How about to repeat Bale sale? Bale departure has brought ultimately the late Spurs revival. Without players purchased Pochettino wouldn't have mattered as much. The only one of comparable value is Harry Kane. Sell Kane?
     
  8. THFC Guest

    Lloris, Sánchez RB, Toby RCB (so Sánchez pace can cover), Jan LCB and Davies at LB.
    Skipp and Sissoko CDM, Bergwijn RM and Son LM. Lo Celso CAM behind Kane.

    - Dier cannot play as too slow with the ball and on his feet. Quick sale would be good.
    - Aurier cant defend or attack so enough said about him. Please let Monaco actually pay some money for him although I’m not convinced he is actually a footballer
    - Alli is lazy, arrogant and attempts too many flicks. Anyone that thinks he would be a big money sale is on another planet - best we can hope is a half decent swap deal with someone.
    - Gedson, who scouted him? Refund please
    - Ndombele is the one that is really hard to understand. On paper he looks like a brilliant signing. Some exceptional performances in France and the odd moment in games for us where he looks works class. For the other 85 mins however, he looks like a cross between Yaya Toure and Neil Ruddock. His lack of pace, energy and effort beggars belief. I personally think sell him while we can get something close to what we paid for him back. Or even better try for a swap deal.
    - Lamela is a mystery. How is he possibly still a spurs player? With all of his injuries and lack of genuine contributions to us, I really would have expected him to be gone by now.
    - Foyth is another who we really need to try and negotiate a swap deal with someone if possible

    Moura, Sess and Winks squad players at best who really need some quality coaching to improve.
     
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  9. Cheshuntboy Guest

    I'm sure Kane is desperate to quit Spurs, but his value is much lower than two or three years ago, and Levy's ridiculous transfer track record (the Eriksen and Grealish sagas, to name just two of dozens) almost certainly means that we'll end up with our best player on strike, sold to a direct PL rival, or sold abroad for peanuts (or any combination of the three!).
    As for the 'Bale Seven', it's hard to see how they contributed to our 'nearly but not quite' years under Pochettino; only Eriksen was a clear success, while the rest were either total failures like Soldado and Paulinho, or severe disappointments like Lamela (now coming into his EIGHTH year at Spurs - that's almost as long as Jimmy Greaves was with us FFS!), and I continue to believe that all of Pochettino's so-called 'success' was down to Kane's goals, Harry's clear decline and our own since 2018 being no coincidence.
    The future is frankly grim, and it's very hard to see where salvation will come from, especially for a Jewish-owned club marooned in the very heartland of BLM - perfect storm, or what?
     
  10. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    As I said in a previous postTHFC where is this quality coaching coming from because I have seen no evidence of any so far and would like to know who takes the players for training because players like Sanchez with potential lack tactical nous and positional sense and seem to be getting worse.Sheffield with less ability showed what good coaching can do.We need a hands on coach asap
     
  11. THFC Guest

    I hear you Preed, I agree totally..JM and his staff have not given any indication at all that their coaching style or ability can improve what players we do have in the slightest. I know he hasn’t inherited the best players etc etc but he was hired to improve us and that hasn’t happened.
    Players follow a coaches/managers game plan. If you can’t spend 4 hours a day showing Aurier where a RB should be on a football pitch or showing Sanchez how to either head a football or cover a player, you are not performing your responsibility as a coach. Yes our players have been poor but poor players when coached well should at least play as a team and perform as a unit

     
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  12. Big fran Guest

    Don't buy into the Harry kane decline at all he's got something like 19 in 28 games this season in a very average side that creates little. Think Dembele leaving and the decline of alli and CE far more of a factor. Selling walker. Rose wanting to leave and downing tools. This current 11 is nowhere near that side in all fairness.
     
  13. THFC Guest

    Have I understood what you are saying right? You think that Poch didnt improve is at all (“so called success”) we just had an amazing Kane?

     
  14. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Totally agree that the loss of form of the other players you mention isn't helping (and who hasn't lost form at Spurs since the 2016/17 season? Even Son seems to be a shadow of his former self), but Kane isn't the player he was, whatever the stats appear to show. Three years back, he was scoring for fun, playing with energy and venom, neither of which have been there since before the 2018 WC, when penalties and free kicks won him a frankly undeserved Golden Boot. He's still a clinical finisher, but the enthusiasm just isn't there now, and the idea that we can finance the scale of rebuilding that's needed just by selling him is sheer delusion. By the way, I remain a big Harry fan, and I feel sorry for him (even on £200k per week), but facts have to be faced - we're a mess and it'll take far more than selling Kane to get us out of it.
     
  15. Cheshuntboy Guest

    So far as I'm concerned, Pochettino's 'success' was as much about Kane's goals as AVB's was about Gareth Bale's, and I reckon Pochettino wouldn't have done any better than his predecessors without Kane's amazing transformation from donkey to thoroughbred (which began under Sherwood, in case you're tempted to credit Pochettino with the change - if he did it with Kane, what happened with Soldado or Janssen?). To sum up, I'm not a Pochettino fan, and reckon he bears quite a share of the blame for our current sad situation.
     
  16. THFC Guest

    That’s one way to look at it I guess? IMO for a large part of the time Poch was with us, our success was more about the speed at which we closed down the opposition, starting with our forwards. It was also about the speed that we transitioned from front to back. It was not about Kane’s goals - they were a product of how wel we played as a team.

    I for one thought that with Poch in charge, for the most part, we attacked and defended as a unit. We did that at a pace that was difficult to sustain but due to his fitness regime, managed. The problem was that we didn’t have the squad depth to cope with any injuries that were caused by that style. That being said, we’re not far off having a decent squad, especially given the younger players that were being used.

    I personally feel that Pochs loyalty to Kane was actually an issue. Yes Kane scores heaps of goals but when he was injured, our style actually suited the other players (such as Son and Moura) a lot better. This led to us having more goals from more areas. The decision he made for the CL final (if it was entirely his or not) was actually a nail in the coffin for a number of other players I believe and was part of the reason so many other players form changed for the worse IMO.

    I also feel that Pochs team at the time were repeatedly let down by LB & RB which he was never able to replace, despite identifying that they were a problem area due to the new stadium. We should have replaced Kyle Walker but didn’t and we should have signed a replacement for Rose/Davies but never managed it.

    On Kane, lets not forget as well, Sherwood may claim some credit for Kane but Kane only played because Soldado was injured and only starred in the PL for Sherwood a few times before he left. Prior to that run he had been played in the EFL, FA Cup and Europa League (by both Sherwood and AVB) with Sherwood only giving him 4 x appearances from the bench (32 mins) in that season (13-14). When Sherwood managed Aston Villa, he actually said that Christian Benteke was a better forward and Kane would get into his team. Christian Benteke.....

    I’m not sure that when you consider all of that, our league improvement was all thanks to Kane and Sherwood as you seem to have suggested.

    I think if you are a Poch fan or not, we can’t deny that we had a poor run with him towards the end of his term but he clearly stated he wanted signings which he didn’t get (blame levy & Enic). That being said, we were never as terrible to watch as we are under JM so I would swap him back in a heartbeat, especially know that any other decent big name manager either probably wouldn’t want the job (thanks to levy & Enic) or wouldn’t be able to do a lot better than Poch with the squad we still have.

     
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  17. Cheshuntboy Guest

    We're clearly not going to agree, because I think that we were just as bad to watch last season as this, while I see Pochettino's overplaying of Kane not as loyalty but as need, if not desperation - I think he knew perfectly well how much he relied on Kane, and perhaps the loyalty was more from Kane to him, and Harry's paid the price for five years of never being rested, as his terrible recent injury record proves. Come back with all guns blazing if you want, but I think we'd be in an even worse situation if Pochettino was still in the job, and you won't convince me otherwise.
     
  18. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Poch return is a realistic option. However, if Poch will get his new job with the magpies then buying a player of Kane caliber would be a good move for the new Saudi owners. Poch will get his man. Kane will get a better pay under his fav coach. And Spurs could buy new players.
     
  19. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    Change of subject wolves0 Arsenal2 we are now ninth.If Everton beat us we will be in lower half of table.We have not finished outside the top6 for10 years.This will really be a feather inMourinos cap.Please Levy sack him now and go with him yourself.People on here keep on about rebuilding by taking players from teams getting relegated ie 3 players from Norwich but they are to good for us and will go to better teams.I really do fear for next year because I can’t see us signing any quality and the current lot will struggle in the relegation zone.Some on here probably think I am being too negative but be warned unless a complete change Happens this will happen
     
  20. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    Might have to, sad but true......
     

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