Matchday discussion

If Pochettino hadn't been so grotesquely over-praised over the past four years, perhaps some of the criticism he's now getting would be more measured, but hyperbole can go in many different directions, sometimes at the same time. He hasn't 'transformed' Spurs - as recent results all too clearly show - but carried-on the progress begun under Jol in 2005, his success in that task being hugely exaggerated by the co-incidental temporary decline of several of the usual top four regulars, most of whom are more or less back, at the worst possible time for Spurs. His record in the transfer market is 'iffy' at best; his brilliantly groomed academy players are nowhere near the first team, and his inexplicable experiments in formation and rotation have caused our cast iron defence of 2016/17 to become as big a joke as Ardiles's from the early '90s. Despite all that, I'm still not calling for his head, but I'm seriously afraid that the wheels are close to coming off this season, and it may be that he'll choose to go while his stock is still high enough to be considered for the biggest jobs - I doubt that it will be in a year or two if he stays.

 

Only in Pochs first season did we lose more games than we have currently and we still have 10 to play.
The football in the main has been turgid , we've scraped past some extremely poor sides while our competitors have torn them apart.
Our defence has been incredibly sloppy at times most noticeably the Mime artist of a 'Captain' Lloris & the full backs as a collective have been absymal.
Injury plagued or not our midfield is shockingly thin and limited , Winks & Sissoko have done them and us proud considering their basic skill sets to forge a CM pairing between them but for a Top 4 outfit that (laughably) reckons it's only after the big prizes it's simply not good enough.
The early glimpses of Lamela & Moura looking like they could put pressure on our supporting forwards has completely dissapeared so much so they can't even put pressure on players that are out injured- they simply ain't good enough regarding consistency or influence.
Eriksen I believe has come to the point that all top players will/do at Spurs under the regime that they've done what they can and nothing is going to miraculously happen and along with probably having to barter for a market wage has probably had offers elsewhere and is just going through the motions now, Right? No Understandable? Yes
The squad is too thin , there are too many weak links in it this isn't something that's just sprung upon us it's been prevelant and on the decline yet the club have just ignored it.
The most frustrating part is that despite all of this we were actually in with a chance 3 of the last 5 seasons yet invested next to nothing to achieve/help it.
As I have said previous on many occasion every good side peaks it doesn't just keep improving without competition or ruthlessness where needed for places, especially when your fighting supposedly on 4 fronts and against sides that are constanty trying to improve.
Standing still is not an option, this and last season hasnt had any proactivity whatsoever from a managerial or buisness point of view , they've basically gotten away with it until now.

And to the many that have come on here giving it the large one about how a few of us are wrong and negative in what we could see coming where are you now aye?
The we don't need to buy anyone brigade?
The we're just gonna get better and better lot?
Look how far we've come / enjoy the ride people?

After Pochs most recent it's gonna take another 5/10 years to change the mindset , are you really that naive ?
Do you really believe any of Eriksen, Toby, Jan, Son etc will be here anymore than another 3 seasons tops? (some will be gone by next)
If you believe that Foyth etc are worthy understudies you are sadly deluded and once a few big players head out the door the others start following.
Kane will be in his 30s FFS.
And soon it will dawn on you the Metal & Glass monstrosity that we've spent way beyond our means on isn't going to suddenly catapult us into being winners the buisness model will continue exactly how it always has possibly even tighter purse strings while we as fans pay more for the pleasure of it.
Until this pathetic championing of punching above our weight, celebrating how well we've done with nothing to show for it this will go on and on.
And with an ultimately flawed model the only way (without significant pro active investment) is backwards and you will have happily clapped it full circle.

 

5 years of Mp and i am getting bored, the only real upside is playing in CL apart from that not much has changed. As felon points out there's a lot of work needed to get this squad back to it's best (2016/17) let alone win anything.

MP is a perfect fit for Enic whose ambition is only to make top4, however, players like Kane, Ali and Ce are good enough to join teams who want to win stuff like Walker who picked up his third trophy in two seasons.

I have had my doubts about MP since the lester season and when spurs lost to chavs in the semi's. imo he doesn't know how to inspire players in big matches that's why spurs always lose them.

 

Sorry mr Bolton that you think nobody could replace pochetino although the athletico Madrid man is not bad and I would think the mr Lowe might like a change from Germany .I don't think they would come and be a levy clone though.I have supported Tottenham for over50 years and tell you thatI have seen many better teams than the current one and players with far more passion than this lot.Did you not see Gareth bale destroy milan the football under Harry was far more exciting than the current sideways passing .Agreed he didn't win anything but neither has pochetino and at least in Harry's days there was excitement.Maybe I have an unfair advantage over you because I saw every game in the double year and watched greats like blanchflower
McKay and greaves and company and later hoddle and Ardilles .the current players would struggle to get on the bench for these teams but even then we were held back by unambitious chairman.So please don't suggest that I know nothing of the ups and downs of following my beloved Spurs

 

So all in all Felon. You think it's time for Poch to go.?

 

It's a difficult 1 Fran, 1stly who replaces him?
2ndly if he manages to keep us in the Top 4?
3rdly this Summer who is he as a man ? Does he just casually earn his 8.5mil a year bumper contract safe in the knowledge he's at a club that doesn't demand silverware.
Or does he make a back me or lose me stand to improve.
4thly he has been just as culpable for the failure to improve what he had built 2/3 seasons ago as the penny pinching board imo he's hid every window and just waffled pure nonsense which is what's began to get under my skin about him because it's arrogant and pendantic.
5thly why on the eve of every big game he's telling everyone it's ok to lose and how happy we should all be?

If there is no change in either approach/players/manager then surely even the most blindest supporters can see this current crop has had every last drop out of it.

It's infuriating anyone with any understanding of football could see we needed a bit more to protect the upward trajectory and best chance we've had in decades to do something, now by the time Summer is here instead of 1 or 2 quality signings we are gonna need major surgery if we want to just stand still the way it's looking.

On the subject of Pochettino, has he done a good job yes, has he missed 1 or 2 opportunities yes, has he done well with what's at hand absolutely but inevitably at some point questions need to be asked about where things are going and that will fall on the managers shoulders.

Because essentially sport isn't about championing the trials and tribulations of a manager given peanuts to spend , especially when it's costing fans huge sums for the pleasure.

 

Where have I presumed you know nothing of Spurs’ ups or downs, or said I don’t believe nobody could replace Pochettino? Rather tetchy on your behalf, Mr Reed.

All I was asking was who (reasonably) do you think could come in and do a better job under the current spending cap. I don’t disagree with your suggestions that Lowe and Simeone could do a job for us. But, as you’ve noted, there’s a better chance of us winning the league than either of those two becoming Spurs manager anytime soon.

 

Post 2016/17 (when we were at our peak) we needed one or two additions to help us kick-on. We didn’t do that.

Two years on, now our squad needs major overhauling: new full-backs, a new central midfielders, possible replacements if Eriksen+Toby depart.

Looking back at 2016/17, it was bit like that Redknapp season when we were crying out for a striker in January to augment a title-charge. We didn’t spend and we fell away.

Whether the fault lies with Levy (refusal to spend) or Pochettino (stubborn in not wanting to spend) is up for debate. But as you said Felon, it doesn’t take a genius to realise the quality of the squad has worsened since our final season at WHL.

 

I don’t think blaming Poch is the answer. Despite him showing some signs of tactical mistakes and strange loyalties to certain players, he can only pick the players he has to choose from.
He has done a great job given the league 2 budget he has been working with but I think now it’s time for a change.
Lloris needs genuine competition (look at the effect good gk has had on City and Liverpool). Tripper, Aurier and Davies must be replaced with better quality defenders. Eriksen should be sold while he is valuable. I would also sell Dier and Wanyama at this stage and move Foyth into the holding role as he is liability at centre back. Llorente and Janssen also need to be gone.

I know that is a lot of change but the fact is, the change is needed and hopefully Poch will get enough to buy some quality.

I don’t understand anyone suggesting we lose Toby when it’s way cheaper to keep him for another 3 years and pay him what he wants. He wasn’t at fault for the goals and usually isn’t, that award seems to go every week to our full backs and keeper.

I do agree with the Kane comment though. Son looks a completely different player when Kane plays and I know Kane has carried us for goals but Son was unbelievable in his absence and the team were performing well. When Kane returned, we lost the pace we had and I’m sure it upset the balance. I’m not saying Kane should not be playing but in don’t think we should have put him back as a starter immediately especially after the way the team performed against Burnley. Kane has looked like he is coming back from injury in both games and played as well as he could given the circumstances but now the momentum and confidence that Son had is gone.

The reason to use a squad is to win games and by dropping Kane back immediately has cost us.

It seems our shape is not suited to having more than one regular goal scorer (whoever that maybe) so perhaps we need to take a leaf out of Liverpool and City’s books and play 3 upfront and try to sign another couple of pacy forwards to compete with Son and Kane and share the goal burden

 

Some of the players I would like to see signed

GK - Oblak (no matter what the cost)
LB - Chiwell
RB - Doherty
CB - De Ligt
CM - Ndombele
CM - Isco
CM - Sancho (not likely but looks good)
CM - Loftus-Cheek
CF - Wilson
CF - Martial

I would also give KWP more games

 

As Frank Sinatra once said, he couldn't hit a bull in the fanny with a bag of rice....and I had to clear that up...

 

Long time, me no postie....

Difficult to put my finger on why I've not been "active"... Think I wanted to keep my powder dry, seeing the signs that only a blind man might not see, yet feeling elated at Jan, Sonny, Winksy and Sissoko performing out of their skins, whilst watching the fixtures ahead of us.

Then I see Burnley running into form, Chelski despite their turmoil and poor results being desperate to turn us over....then the Gooners putting loads in the back of the net....mmm says Baz, keep quiet now, fingers crossed.

But....lurking in the back of my mind, and seen by many of those of us who frequent this forum, all is not wondeful in N17....and the bottom line is we're not good enough. Dodgy keeper, nay very dodgy keeper, weak, nay very weak full backs, injuries at key times to key players, mistakes, nay too many mistakes. No new blood...mad or what.

So I kept quiet, because I was worried. Even now I tell myself that if we beat the Gooners we're not far from CL.....if, such an easy word to roll off the tongue....

So for me it has to be Gazza, KWP or Aurier, Sanchez, Toby, Jan, Winks, Sissoko, Son, Eriksen, Moura, Kane.
No Pamela...please. There will be 80k there, so come on Poch, surprise me, nay surprise us all. come out firing, no early goals against, no early bookings, press, pace, passion.

COYS

 

RE Felon...
Can't disagree with much of what your saying. From here now I'd like to see this.
A decision made on who is our first choice right back and back five put together to play together consistently for the remainder of the campaign . The bk 3 system experiment needs to go on the back burner for now at least.
From there on in I'd like to have the opportunity to judge poch on the basis of a summer in which he is given reasonable financial backing and given the power to completely overhaul the squad with a new full bk, quality Centre mid, attacker and replacements for eriksen and Jan as if expected they move on.
If he isn't given the backing I would be fully supportive if he walks away from the project leaving Levy n Lewis in the mire.
If he's backed and fails then by all means changes need to be made.
I'm glad fans aren't in general wanting the axe to fall as I believe it's difficult to gauge how good he is or is not given what he's had to endure his time at spurs..
We all hope the stadium will be a game changer, some think it's a financial noose. In truth we won't know until we're in the damn thing. If we get top four I think it's been a good season given we're up against two of the best sides in Europe in Liverpool City and United rejuvenated. If we can go a round or two further in the CL then even better.

 

Are people's memories blocked or did the results just completely mask over the performances while Kane was out . This notion that Son can't perform with Kane or that our performances have nosedived since his return based on the last two performances is mental . They've played together successfully for years now . Son and Lorrente got the job done in terms of goals while Kane was out but the all round team performances were fairly similar . Jesus just go back to the Leicester game , that was scarily poor , as bad as i can remember for quite a while . Fulham , Newcastle , Burnley at home , etc , etc the list is a long one . What would the comments be if Kane was on the bench for last two games and the results were the same I wonder . Recency bias if I ever seen it . We as a team are not playing well , we haven't been for large parts of the season , the results masked over this and lot of inadequacies for many it seems . It would have been miraculous if we kept nicking games playing to these standards . Surely it was going to balance out at some stage if we didn't pick it up ...

 

I don’t think anyone is saying the performances have been good...what is meant (I think) is that Son was creating chances, closing and causing havoc in Kane’s absence even though we played poorly....to slip him out of that position immediately upon Kane’s return seems to have either dented his confidence or just kept him away from the areas he was performing so well in. The fact is, Kane is recovering from an injury and despite his goal against Burnley, played like it in both games. Why not leave Son and ease Kane back in, building with a view to playing Dortmund?

 

It's what we've all been feeling and seeing burnt, but we are where we are. At our best we can beat the Gooners at the weekend, so let's be at our best lads.....

 

Haha...so true...how many corners are needed before you clear the front post?

 

........who's paying the wages that these 'class players' demand?? ....certainly not us!
we'll never get the really top players.

Pochy has done wonders with his hands somewhat tied in the transfer market. Yes we have been fortunate with ManU sticking with Mourinho for soo long....plus poor Chelski & Arsenal teams earlier in the season...but we are up there. We could have been poor with no player additions....but we've got on with it.
Every manager/coach will have a period of difficulty....let's see how he comes out of it.
still plenty to play for
COYS!

 

Maybe it's an interpretation problem ....

 

We travel to Brighton & Hove Albion for the early Saturday Kick Off.

Shell shocked from the midweek mauling by Bayern, who only knows what sort of state we will be in.

God only knows what Pochettino is going to do such has become his erratic management style.

Speaking of erratic at least Aurier is banned so won't be playing , step up KWP or Sanchez or Foyth .....

Brighton will smell blood , they will know it's a great time to get at a fragile club and with the home support behind them they are a challenge to all sides at the Amex so to take this lightly will be a huge mistake.

Despite being down to 10 vs Southampton I wasn't convinced of the performance more quality up top and I think we'd of not held on. So we are definitely going to have to be better.

After that shower on Tuesday they owe the shirt and fans a blood & guts performance.

We need to desperately get back to basics, 4231 , Pochettino needs to get some consistency going get the players on he can trust and stick to being difficult to beat until we can find some form.

The players also need to take some responsibility individually and as a team. The sheer lack of leadership has been prevalent throughout the 'project' it's time 1 or 2 big players started rallying the troops organising and they started pulling together again.

Gotta get back on track and quick with a potential Liverpool tonking on the horizon gonna need major improvement to avoid that as it could signal the end for Poch and his project (whatever that is now)