You reap what you sow....

Discussion in 'Featured' started by Felon82, January 2, 2020.

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  1. Big fran Guest

    Alli has never been a box to box mid. He's an out an out no10 who needs very little defensive duties other than being the 2nd man I on a high press. His quality lies in getting in the box scoring goals and playing in Kane.


     
  2. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    Your holding back Felon, I can tell....
     
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  3. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    For me Dele is too lightweight to be box to box - Kante, Docoure - as for Ndombele.....will be find out soon....
     
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  4. Thomas Member

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    Ndombele can huff and puff but unlikely to play the role. Not to forget that more often than not he's unavailable. Looks like another gap to be plugged.
     
  5. Jesper Member

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    It seems that we might be thinking of different things when referring to box to box midfielders :)
    The way I see a 4-2-3-1 is that there are two DMs, two fast wingers and one box to box midfielder. If one of the DMs is box to box then for me the formation is more 4-5-1 with one DM, two wingers and two box to box midfielders who alternate runs into the opposing penalty area.

    I see Kante as a DM, he's light, not very tall and very mobile. (1.68 cm, 70 kg) but transfermarkt says differently so I am probably wrong in that:
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ngolo-kante/profil/spieler/225083
    The one with the most similar physical attributes at Spurs is most definitely not Dier so hopefully we'll not see Dier in a role where someone like Kante excels.

    Yep, Dele is strong on the offensive but defensively.... When he, Moura, Son, Eriksen and Kane are all playing then the midfield is often overrun and I don't think even Kante could stop it from being overrun if he was the DM.
     
  6. Thomas Member

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    Looks like you want the No 10 to be a box-to-box player. It may limit his effectiveness by adding more defensive load on him. Sounds like you have in mind counter-attacking football. Otherwise, when you win back possession your No 10 is back defending and is not in a advance position to help out in attack.
     
  7. Jesper Member

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    As far as I can tell the 4-2-3-1 is about the double pivot - the two holding midfielders. If one of the two is not a holding midfielder then it might not be a 4-2-3-1:
    https://www.thefalse9.com/2013/11/football-tactics-for-beginnersthe-4-2-3.html
    For me the 4-2-3-1 is mostly a counter-attacking formation and quite possibly Dele isn't great in that formation.
    But on the other hand the structure of the team hasn't been great or even good for a long time, possibly the new manager can clarify the roles to the players as it at times has looked like the players on the field were unsure of where they were supposed to be.
     
  8. Thomas Member

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    Spurs played mainly possession football with the 4-2-3-1 formation under MP. JM used the same formation and played counter-attacking football. I think more often than not one of the double pivot is the box-to-box player and not the No 10.

    I thought that when we bought Ndombele, we had a stallion who could play the role but unfortunately, he can't last the full 90 mins.
     
  9. Jesper Member

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    It is such a long time since the previous manager had his team playing well.... Yes there was a time with possession based 4231 but for a bit longer than his last year managing then it often came without any meaningul penetration and few chances created. For me then I preferred the formation with three central defenders, two wingbacks/fullbacks pushing forward, three central midfielders, Kane + one of Son or Dele playing well next to Kane.

    It might be risky to have a 4231 consisting of one CAM with few defensive responsibilities, one box to box midfielder who from time to time will be very high up leading to there being only one CDM to cover when the box to box midfielder goes high. Especially if the FBs push forward as well.
    I suppose that it might be similar to the system that Man City plays, when it works then great but they are vulnerable at the back despite taking quite a few necessary tactical fouls breaking up counter attacks.
     
  10. Big fran Guest

    Exactly we had dier/wanyama holding 4, Dembele 8 and alli 10. Quite simple and worked a dream. Why Poch spent his entire budget on two new no8s when we had sissoko already with alli and eriksen winks also can play as an auxiliary 8 was baffling. Left us short in both full bk departments and no bk up 9. How did that work out.
     
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  11. THFC Guest

    There is lots of discussion and opinions on formations and midfield, all of which is spot on for one reason or another (depending on your opinion of course).

    The desperate fix for me me however is the LB and RB spots. I think that LB has always been an issue and ever since Kyle Walker was sold, so has RB. Yes Trippier could cross a ball but he couldn’t defend.

    In my opinion, we urgently need to sign 2 x fullbacks that can actually defend first as this will take the pressure off both CB’s and the holding MF who all need to constantly shift positions to cover the gaps which then leads to other areas on the pitch being exposed.

    I then agree the priority should be an athletic DM but importantly has the ability to kick a ball forwards more than 5 yards without giving the ball away.

    The Dele Alli debate will continue to rage, my question would be to see if the occasional brilliance and goal is worth the 95% of the flicks, tricks, dives and walking. In my opinion, it’s a no and I would rather see someone in that spot like Maddison/Grealish who pops up with a goal but that plays simple football and will work hard. Another name to throw in that hat is Sugurdson who has allegedly been told by Everton he can leave.
     
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  12. Jesper Member

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  13. Thomas Member

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    I think Lo Celso was meant to be an Eriksen replacement playing in a more advanced position rather than as a DM. Ndeombele was supposed to be the box-to-box player.

    Fully agree that we can do with a LB upgrade.
     
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  14. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Piatek from Milan gathering pace unlike our passing
     
  15. Guesty Guest

    NDumb.....money wasted in my opinion. I don't see JM sticking with him.
    If we can get anywhere near what we paid for him we should get rid. ....same with Aurier, Foyth & Moura,
     
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  16. Spurporter Active Member

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    Poch played ball possession, but didn't want to be a one pony show, so he wanted to play counter attacking when needed in away ties and/or against 4-3-3 attacking teams. For that he needed box-to-box MF, something Winks was used for and weren't good running the ball, whilst Sissoco runs with ball well, but lacks Winks' passing precision. Dele was another choice but he is not good at tackling and gets frustrated, even violent, attempting to defend. Ndobele should have addressed that. I think Ndobele will serve Mou well eventually, groin is frustrating things, but can be dealt with by physios. LoCelco is a wide MF that can play other MF positions, something that good to have and worth to spend on. JM will patch the current holes with him. He will start against Pool in that box-to-box role I guess. JM needs him or Dele to be his Matic at Spurs, something Pogba failed to become at MUFC.
     
    Last edited: January 10, 2020
  17. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    Am I the only one depressed at the apparent lack of direction shown by Mourino in getting Levy to spend. Reading between the lines it appears he took the job knowing that there would not be any monies for transfers.But this was before the latest injuries to Kane and sissoko.Liverpool unbeaten but still have bought a player to strengthen their squad.Chelsea stronger than us but still trying to strengthen their squad.I can see us going the gunners way after new stadium and soon to become a mid table regular.I really do hate that man Levy who is bringing us to our knees.His only saving grace is if he suddenly realises.his error and spends big but don’t hold your breath
     
  18. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    Ps anything less than a5 nil defeat will be a bonus tomorrow
     
  19. Big fran Guest

    That seems the remit upon which Jose signed which in my opinion is unwise and will ultimately lead to the same outcome. I do think he will get more out the squad than poch who had run out of ideas. It looks like it's a sell to buy policy. Hopefully we can sell some deadwood and invest more wise than the past. Piacek looks like a good possibility right now and a loan to buy option is a no brainer. Kwp on his way out will signal a new right bk incoming. Atal would have been the preferred option but injury put paid to that. Aaron's maybe I dunno???
     
  20. Spurporter Active Member

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    Too early in the window to panic. I like Moussa Dembele better simply because he played with Ndobele in Lyon. Piacek is another option, but we need RB more than a striker.
     

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