You reap what you sow....

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Felon82, January 2, 2020.

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  1. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Between Levy & Pochettino they managed to leave the club in a worse state than when Pochettino arrived.

    The young squad with potential is now older and spent, the 1st team is weaker than it was, the squad is completely unbalanced and there's a complete lack of team work or cohesion.

    It cannot be stressed enough the damage that signing insignificant quality as and when needed, ignoring glaring weaknesses and the negligence of signing no one has done to this squad.

    Remember not just the club but fans actually coming out in force telling everyone it was impossible to improve, that we didn't need to sign anyone, we didn't need competition for places or players for the bench (remember these absolute gems, you know who you are.....)

    Fact of the matter is when we had a good young balanced side it wasn't good enough to deliver, it needed depth and quality competition.
    Since then it's been starved & weakened through Walker leaving , Lloris becoming a clown, the CM partnership of Dembele & Wanyama never being replaced adequately, the Belgium double act looking bemused both aging plus our great Dane who's treading water to his move, Rose & Davies just picking up wages, the inconsistency of Alli & Moura, Kane looking spent and a stock pile of bang average calamitous players that have more injuries than a ship returning soldiers from war.

    Still those that liked to tell us about the bigger picture and what wonderful foundations we've put down whilst not doing a Leeds at least have a stadium to look at and a training ground to talk of.
    Who needs a football team when you have that?

    Mourniho's job at the moment is to sort the wheat from the chaff and try and get some sort of tune out of it.
    From an outside perspective it looks like there are a few rotten apples that need shifting and quickly to mend the quite obvious team rift behind the scenes that's gone/going on.
    Then there is of course an upgrade so desperately needed in at least 5 positions just to bring the 1st team back to anywhere near where it was such is the depletion of it.

    Its madness to be on JMs back (at the moment) it's a huge task because of the sheer negligence of the previous manager and current owner.
    We started the season with an inadequate unbalanced short squad it was clearly obvious (1 guy was bery appy tho....) , the 3 dragged out signings did little to shape or iron any problems out all having made next to no impact whatsoever.
    It's a complete shambles and has translated badly to the pitch.

    Literally the only fix now is to cull the deadwood and bang average wage thieves , upgrade in the 1st team where it's so desperately needed - GK FBs CDM WF then following windows work on proper depth ie 2nd Striker etc

    The only way out of this is to be ruthless and proactive in the transfer windows as what we currently have is toxic and quite frankly not good enough.

    If JM over the next 2/3 windows is towing company line like Poch and still serving up this dross then it's right to get on his back but as usual the common denominator in all this is Ming the Penniless and his levbottomised support cult of bedwetters.

    Further dilly dallying and negligence where this clown is concerned in the transfer windows and dealings needs to be called out loudly by the fans.

    The team needs investment , proper investment until then it's at best treading water which breeds contempt, it's gone beyond flogging dead a horse now.

    You reap what you sow.
    Last edited: January 2, 2020
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  2. Big fran Guest

    Loads of poch lovers out there already sticking boot in. Ridiculous. Jose is getting the absolute max out of these bums at present something poch struggled to do. The quality of kan and Son covering huge cracks.
    Many pointing to the style of play but Jose ain't never really been a long ball merchant but having to do so due to the alarming lack of ability in centre midfield. Having to play want away eriksen also. The 4 signings have been so far so poor for a massive outlay.
    You just have to hope somewhere along the line the board must see how Liverpool have invested top end of the market and now the best side in world football. 3 years ago we were probably 2 players away from winning majors. Now we are a mid table club looking to try break into a top 4. Luckily the other sides chasing the last remaining 4th spot or also inconsistent. Cheksea and united however already said they will strengthen. We probably need 5 or 6 players. 2 full bks, left centre half, defensive midfield and a lucas moura upgrade. Where do you find them tho and at what cost.? Leicester certainly won't part with thier full bks especially to us would they? Jadon sancho would command 100m fee no problem but can't see us paying that. Nathan ake 60 to 70m. It needs 200 to 300m. What would be the cost of not qualifying for CL be. 100m?
    Hopefully the fa Cup v boro in what looks like a real banana skin will give tanganga Skipp parrot a chance to Impress. Maybe lo celso.
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  3. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    Following felon 82 remarks I would like some of the rose coloured spectacle types who constantly criticised him and A Few others of us who dared to criticise the lack of investment to come on this page and now justify their criticism .I won’t hold my breath because their only defence will be to slam Mourino who is the one trying to undo 2 years of neglect and unfortunately with levy I’m afraid it will be a losing battle.I will be surprised if he does not walk within a year.Surely there is an oil millionaire somewhere who would like to buy into our wonderful facilities and would like to do a Man City with the team
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  4. Guesty Guest

    either that or we get some decent scouts to bring in some proper fresh young talent!
    Other clubs can do it.....but we rarely do. Yes we did with Alli...but not too much comes in at a cheap outlay.
    Perhaps its because we can't risk a cheap poor purchase.....which surprises me as we seem to do quite well at the expensive poor purchases!!

    I think Levy will give JM some money to spend....but it won't be enough.

    Would Aurier, Foyth, Rose, Dire, Ndumb, Moura, Lamela.....get into any other top 6 (or 10) team? ...I very much doubt it

    Perhaps JM just plays the youngsters to give them some time to gel...and prays a scout comes up trumps with a couple of strong young players. Could it be any worse?
    (GK), KWP rb, Tanganga cb, Sanchez cb, Sessegnon lb, Skipp m, Winks m, Lo Celsco m, Alli f, Parrot f....and Son f
  5. Cheshuntboy Guest

    There seem to be pro-Pochettino, anti-Mourinho posts and blogs all over the place today, just adding to my despair at some of our fans, who honestly believe that our two year-long decline under the Argentine porker was just a blip, which would miraculously have been turned-round if only Levy hadn't panicked. All the stats prove that Spurs peaked in 2016/17, and have been in clear decline ever since, that decline becoming free-fall in Pochettino's final months, and no amount of wishful thinking on his admirers' part changes the facts. Our problems are such that I very much doubt that top four is possible this year, but to blame Mourinho after a few weeks is taking blind stupidity to new depths (but since so many Pochettino fans used to be AVB lovers, I really shouldn't be surprised).
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  6. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    Two words: Festive Period. Historically, the EPL bottom feeders shine in that time, whilst understaffed squads like Spurs are getting tired. Sure, Pool and Foxes got through unharmed, but it is not a time to get on Mourinho back. First off, I disagree with unfair assessment of new signings. LoCelso was very good last few ties, Ndobele impressed as well. Sessegnon was good, must be tried as a fullback. These are not goalscorers, they were fine. Our finishers were not up to the task. But they are starting and staying for 90 min. Tired they are. Let's wait. It is not a time to cry. Yet. COYS!!!
  7. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Well-Known Member

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    Whaaat???? Lo Celso, Sessegnon and N'dombele have shown NOTHING yet to suggest that they're the future let alone impress me much in the present; yes, there have been injuries and that'll hold anyone back, but I don't see anything right now from any of them that inspires much confidence. I'll concede that they haven't had much game time yet and things can change - I remember Alan Mullery, Cyril Knowles & Pat Jennings arriving in 1964, not strong initially but ultimately legends - so I won't write them off, it's far too early for that, however I'm reserving final judgement.
  8. Genevaspurs Guest

    Let's have 2 minutes to think about the last 5 games ... From the totally unexpected victory at Wolves to apathy against Chelsea via a narrow victory against Burnley at home after an insipid first half ending in a draw against the last on 2 balls stopped and the defeat of yesterday without comments ... We have a tired Harry because he plays all the games and without real substitute. We have an absent Dele who, apart from a magnificent goal against burnley shows nothing except permanent moaning ... A Lucas who runs everywhere but never wisely and finally no quality cross/assist of our full backs... None! To mix Lo celso and Ndombele with the collective shipwreck is unfair and shows a serious lack of knowledge about football! Lo celso has already shown us that when MP trusted him, you can count on him and that he has talent while Ndombele always makes the difference in the middle of the field where we play in under number most games!
    If Levy and JM have the possibility of making purchases then it is clearly to double the position of stricker and to bring speed in the wings. Speed and quality! Starting with the sides and finishing with the wingers. Finally 1 to 2 central defenders are to sign as quickly as possible ... Not sure if it happens in January....! COYS !
  9. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Well-Known Member

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    My opinion differs from yours so I show a "serious lack of knowledge about football": Excuse me while I bow to someone who posts that 5-0 against Burnley is a "narrow victory" before some dribble involving 2 balls that is totally incomprehensible. Get over yourself - it's a forum for opinion, not a place to show off how far superior you think you are to everyone else.
    Last edited: January 2, 2020
  10. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    There's nothing extraordinary about that. No successful manager leaves the club at the peak of success of his team. To the contrary, in most cases the team is in shambles: look at MUFC after Sir Alex or Arsenal after Wenger. Only when successful manager is forced out to get the better one, like Rogers at LFC, then he may leave the team in relatively good shape to his successor. But even in Klopp's case it took Pool a few seasons and Coutinho sale to Barca to get the LFC off to the good ride. The opinions may be different. Some, like you, Felon82, would find Poch akin to Wenger, some like me - akin to Rogers, but to expect a miracle from gaffer change is kind of naivety. (In no way I compare MP to those two, so, please, don't jump on it!!).
    The team progression in time is always cyclical, that is given. The club progression, however, must be incremental. Club progression is disrespectful of trophies won, it is strictly based on its financial results and material capabilities. With hiring of Mourinho, Levy has indicated that club progressing has been satisfactory, we are big club now. I do not agree with the latter, whilst concur to the former. However, the appointment of someone who is known as manager able to get good team over the hump was a mistake on Levy's part. Most posters here, as well as article author, insist that rebuild is needed. Mourinho is not a rebuild specialist. I think Mou took the job having in mind just refreshing the team. I can only prey that he was right, cause I, like most here doubt it. I wish him best of luck and I root for his success. COYS!!
    Last edited: January 2, 2020
  11. THFC Guest

    The premier league has changed over the last 10 years and to have a chance at success you need pace...we used to break quickly and when we did, we had success.
    We now struggle for the whole team to get up quickly (only the front 4 move up at any pace) which when you add to the fact the slow defenders, can’t actually defend means we are always going to struggle.
    It doesn’t help how Alli slows the game down and gives the ball away then doesn’t give a hoot and shrugs his shoulders.

    Keep Toby (even though he is slowing down) & Davies
    Jan will leave on a free
    Sell Rose, Sanchez, KWP, Dier, Wanyama, Aurier (if you can get anything for him)
    Sell Alli, Lloris and return Lo Celso

    Buy Stevens (Sheffield Utd), Pereria (Leicester), Aaron’s (Norwich), Varone (RM), Grealish (Villa) and hunt out a decent DM. Also sign either Obalak or the Shalke keeper.

    We can’t continue to rely on everyone else losing to finish 4th
  12. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    • Sorry Thfc but none of the players you mention will want to come to Tottenham at the moment. We probably could have had Grealish last yearbut Levy was to tight to pay out.He could probably have his pick of clubs now.Do you really think Varane would leave Madrid for us?? or pereira leave Leicester where he is going to have Champions league football next year.i am afraid that players now know that they can earn more sitting on the bench of the really top sides thanks to the penny pinching idiot in charge of our club.You also list those you want out but most of them will be lucky if a buyer can be found.i am afraid that Pochetino and levy have brought this on by not understanding the club needed strengthening over the last two years and our brilliant stadium could be a millstone if we can’t attract the right Calibre of players
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  13. Genevaspurs Guest

    I'm sorry if I mistakenly mentioned burnley instead of brighton but anyone who follows Spurs daily will understand ... We all have our opinions and it's okay to share them so before I get upset if little while we all want the same thing for our club (unless it is different for you?) it would be nice to stay moderate ... The problems can not decently be put only on the latest recruits but also and especially on players who are supposed to be leaders. No leader or revolt yesterday on the ground, is that normal? When all of them are holders or almost in national selection ... why are we able to play offensively by putting pressure on the opposing goal only during the last 10 minutes (have à look on pool style of play....) ? Therein lies the major problem! Not just 2 players who have no say in a locker room who kicked Pocchetino out and who takes no responsibility on the field!
  14. Jesper Active Member

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    Pochettino isn't being defended, he is being brought back to be complained about. Let it go. Let Mourinho do what he can and lets move on from someone who is no longer at the club.

    & Walker? I remember his good and his bad (and he did have some bad). I was sad to see him go but him leaving isn't the reason why the midfield has been over-run for the past year.

    Levy was/is careful about signing players on high wages, we will see if that changes now that increased cashflow from the finished stadium comes in. Maybe he'll not spend more, I think he will as he seems to have been in business long enough to know that to make money then money needs to be invested.

    Mistakes have been made at Spurs, mistakes have been made at all clubs in the EPL. Mistakes will be made by all clubds in the EPL in the future as nobody is perfect, hopefully the mistakes at Spurs will be outnumbered by good decisions.

    Yes, the squad is in need of a refresh but clubs who buy more than 3-4 players in one window (which has been tried in the past, remember the seven?) and try to get them into a team will have a new set of difficulties.
    Of the new signings, my opinion:
    N'dombele looks good but his injuries are a concern. Missed at the physical, scout didn't see anything or is it more mental? Who knows.
    Lo Celso has in my opinion often been played out of position, he is not a winger, he is a central midfielder. He hasn't looked great yet but the midfield as a unit looks bad so singling out one might be too soon.
    Ssesegnon is still young, hasn't impressed yet. Maybe he'll become a new Bale (he probably won't), hopefully he'll get better than what he has shown so far.

    Yes there is work to do, there always is work to do.
    I might not agree with the list of players who should be sold, I've little to no idea of the players being discussed to be bought (I see them maybe twice per year & buying on so little information is not something that I recommend) but compared to the complaining about the past then it is constructive and looking to the future.
  15. THFC Guest

    Sorry Preed but I disagree with the calibre of signings we should expect. Ndombele is a perfect example of what we are capable of agreeing with players thanks to the stadium and training ground. Yes Leicester are above us at the moment but I’m sure players like Pareira would prefer to be in London...same as we could have signed Tielemans if we had actually tried.
    In the list I mentioned, yes Varane plays for RM but he also used to play for and has a relationship with JM.

    With regards to wholesale changes, I never said sell everyone in January? Spurs are a prime example of when making lots of signing doesn’t work but all of those players had never played in the Premier League.

    The players I have suggested all do and have and yes will take some time to get to know each other but I don’t think we have any other choice given the quality we have available.

    Lo Celso is a great midfielder, in Spain...he is not strong enough for the Premier League. In the same breath Ndombele is absolutely built for the premier league but needs to work on his fitness.

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  16. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Obviously I can only speak for myself, and while some people here and elsewhere (including me) have cited Pochettino as a prime cause of our current problems, it's undeniable that there have been plenty of posters claiming that he would have got us back on track, despite an entire year of evidence to the contrary. Even my old mate Spurporter reckons Mourinho (twenty-five major trophies in less than twenty years of management) is no better than Pochettino (zero in ten), and the knives will be well and truly out if Middlesborough see us off in the FA Cup. As you say, we need to move on, and face the fact that the past five years have been largely spent flattering to deceive on a truly grand scale, and a very tough and probably protracted period of rebuilding is required if the dream of success is ever to become a reality.
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  17. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    We will go past the Boros, but this is not a good season for FA cup hopes. Cups may be better had when there is a fight at the top of the table. With Pool run unopposed the attention to other trophies will be switch to by the runners up. They will dress strong teams and our chances are going to be getting down.
    I am not equating Mou and Poch accomplishments. But by changing managers Levy upgraded Vauxhall to Volvo, whilst the road is as congested as before. Since Volvo is unable to travel any faster, it is equal to the original car and money spent on upgrade is ultimately wasted. Well, all we can do is to enjoy the leather seats.
    With all that, I think we still can finish 4th. Otherwise, win the UCL although the better chance would be to drop to Europa earlier and try to beat Inter in the final.
  18. Jesper Active Member

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    Yep, we need to move on & if there are those who want to continue discussing the former manager then might I suggest a new post?
    I'll ignore that post as my mind is made up, I believe the minds of most are also made up so for me it is something in the past where all can (possibly should) agree to disagree and move on.

    At the moment the squad is so unbalanced that it is difficult for me to see any formation where not at least one player is forced to play outside his preferred position. Next steps might be to decide which formation(s?) to play and from that decision see what needs to be done regarding players.
    433 - like Liverpool and Man City?
    352 - like Wolves and Sheffield U
    4141 - like Leicester?
    whatever formations Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U are playing?
    442 - like some mid-table teams are playing
    something completely different?

    The team to possibly raid during the summer might be Bournemouth, if they go down and it is believed that some of their better players can regain form then there might be a few players to poach. But again, first might be to decide the formation to play, then evaluate what needs to be done with the squad to be able to play that formations and finally make the necessary purchases/sales.
  19. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    The thing is Jesper, choosing a formation requires at least a 1st 11 that are good enough to play that shape. Take playing three at the back - this requires two athletic, quick and capable defensive full backs like Rose and Walker used to be. Every time I’ve ever seen us play 3 at the back it’s been a disaster. As a result this term we’ve fiddled and farted around with our formation, but have been totally unable to deliver regardless of formation, because we just don’t have the personnel. It’s going to be a long winter.....
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  20. Jesper Active Member

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    So your suggestion is not to choose a formation?

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