Why this £8M World Cup star would be great defensive addition for Spurs

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Spurspanyol, June 25, 2014.

Share This Page

  1. Spurspanyol

    Spurspanyol New Member

    Likes Received:
    Hector Moreno. I can't remember a week going by since Pochettino has taken over that we haven't been linked to the Espanyol centre back. Much like with Paulinho last summer, most of the fans hadn't heard of him previously. Paulinho shone in the Confederations Cup and likewise Hector has at this World Cup (so far).

    He's a very solid centre-half. He isn't exactly tall for a centre-back at around 6ft but he's no slouch in the air. Moreno, in that regard, is much stronger than Chiriches and should adapt more quickly to the Premier League than the Romanian did. The biggest negative towards Vlad last season was how easily he was bullied in the air. You can't lose those aerial battles in the Premier League, especially when you play against more direct teams (notably in the game against West Ham in the Capital One Cup).

    Like Chiriches, he's comfortable on the ball as well. So often we see English defenders look to find a yard of space before drilling the ball down the line or up to the centre forward. I suppose you could compare him in that sense to Vertonghen. He's more likely to study his options, get his head up, and look for a teammate as opposed to aim for a 'zone' further up the pitch. Long balls upfield from our centre-backs was a crux of frustration for many last season.

    He reached 100 games in Espanyol's colours last season. He's been by and large a success in Spain and has over the years attracted interest from bigger sides but, at those moments, the 'elite' teams had their first choice centre-back partnerships sorted and Moreno wasn't interested in moving to play a bit-part role, even if it meant picking up medals.

    Rightly so, Hector Moreno feels like he has achieved all he can at Espanyol and at the age 26, sees it as the perfect time to leave. This World Cup is basically an audition to get his big move. His agent has banded his name about the press as much as he can in an attempt to spark interest in the Mexican international.

    Could he adjust to the pace & power of the Premier League? I don't see why not. He doesn't tend to make mistakes and has even captained Mexico, where he is seen as the natural successor to Rafa Marquez. Like I said earlier, we have severely lacked leadership at the back since Ledley hung up his boots.

    At 8M the guy is an absolute must. He's an upgrade on Vlad -- who has looked promising since joining us -- and could slot into the Premier League with ease. The only issue being that he's left-footed, as is Jan, and there aren't many centre-back pairings which both are left-footed (to my knowledge). I sense it's a small hurdle to overcome in the grand scale of things though.

    Do it, Mr. Levy. Do it.
    Ramos43 likes this.
  2. big fran Guest

    Sounds more like a replacement for Jan rather than a partner being very left sided.. Possibly to partner Lovren I'm hearing with chiri and kaboul as bk up.
    Ramos43 likes this.
  3. notnats

    notnats Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    Ive promised myself that I wont get too excited about every player linked to us as it usually ends up in frustration but as usual I cant help myself. Great article again and I have to agree that we lack some leadership at the back and with the possibility of Daw leaving we could use an intelligent, experienced CB but as a left footer this will only happen if Jan leaves.
    Ramos43 likes this.
  4. guest Guest

    I have seen quite a bit of Moreno over the past 3 years and besides being faster than Michael he definitely doesn't add anything to what we have. Unfortunately he would not fair well in the EPL especially against more direct opponents like Stoke, Newcastle, QPR, Everton and too many others.
    He struggles defending corners and other sets. He doesn't have strength and can be out-muscled by the smaller strikers in the league like Remy, Suarez and others.
    He is a decent complement to a stronger right sided CB and creates space to get off his passes. He doesn't show the capability to make the long pass as Mexico tend to play through the back as they lack a target man and have so for quite a while.

    He isn't a bad player and has potential to be as good as someone like Astori or a left footed Toby Aiderweld (sp?). I just can't see him becoming the rock of the back line. He doesn't make horrible mistakes very often at all and his positioning is good unless he gets pushed around. And that will most certainly happen in a more physical league like the EPL.

    If we had to pick a defender from the Mexican team I would say LB Layun would be a solid choice. Even he wouldn't be that much of an upgrade if at all really.

    I'm hoping that these are just rumors because Mauricio coached at Espanyol before and signed Moreno too. I have probably been too hard on him for his lack of strength both on the ground and in the air as he is not a threat offensively. What I could see is if he were signed by us to play at a more natural position like LB. He doesn't possess speed for days but he is as fast as Chircheş and "Verts" so he can be an outlet but he most likely would provide a ton of crosses by the flag.

    Caulker would be a good idea if someone like Lovren has too high a price tag. I would also like to see us sign RB Fabian Johnson from Hoffenheim and the USMNT. He has progressed over the last 2 years to become a very strong athlete with all of the ability to get forward not just with speed but going through people with skill. He defends well enough and gets the ball off of really good players. He did a really great job on Ronaldo staying with him mostly. However I don't expect him to stay at right back for very much longer as his speed, technical skills and offensive ability, with both feet as he likes to pull onto his left to shoot with power. He reminds me a lot of Bale from 3-4 years ago but with better defensive skill. I can see this guy becoming a very good right winger in the very near future and he is sure to get more attention if the US continue further in the WC. I know it's a really long reply but I am starved for other Tottenham fans living here in the US.
    Ramos43 likes this.
  5. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

    Likes Received:
    Another nice read!

    It seems that now the media have ran out of Southampton, and Argentinian, players to link Spurs with, that they have now begun to delve, even, deeper into the 'lazy journalism drawer', and start linking Pochettino with players he has managed at Espanyol!

    Give it a week, and they'll probably start connecting players to Tottenham Hotspur that actually used to PLAY in the same teams as Pochettino!.... Juan Sebastian Veron anyone???

    Personally, I'm ALWAYS cautious about buying someone (solely) on the back of a successful International cup campaign.

    After all, football has been littered in the past with teams who have sought to capitalise on an individuals success at a major international tournament only to be left disappointed by the form that they manage produce for their said new club/s.

    If you need any evidence of this, just ask Sunderland about the exploits of Asamoah Gyan (or lack of them) in their club colours, or Newcastle about a certain WC winner called Stephane Guivarc'h.

    Certainly, being a success at International level means very little when considering purchasing a player for a top-level football club, and that goes double for clubs in the EPL which is a competition/environment like no other.

    Didn't West Ham sign a player that looked like a WORLD BEATER playing, for Mexico, in the last WC, only to sell him on again 2 years later to some obscure Mexican club? I think his name was Pablo Barrera, or something, or the other.

    Anyway, I think I've proved my point!

    Look, hey, if Pochettino GENUINELY does want this guy, then I would back the managers judgement 100%, but don't be surprised if this is just journalists, trying to fill the pages of a red-top with another example of more poorly researched, transfer tittle-tattle.

    As far as the ability of the player himself goes, I have NEVER seen him (or more to the point 'studied' him) play, so I am completely unable to give any opinion on him at all.

    The only thing I would say though, is NOBODY was heralding the achievements/potential of Hector Moreno BEFORE this WC, and yet now everybody (slight exaggeration) seems to be convinced that the Mexican is some sort of Superstar in the making, which, in truth, only makes me more sceptical.

    Anyhow like I said, IF MP is actually interested in this guy then I will back/support his judgement. But maybe we should wait and see how this story develops before reading too much into it.

    On a side note, the notion/suggestion that two players with the same preferred striking footing CAN'T play together, and be perfectly successful, in a defensive partnership, is COMPLETE and UTTER TOSH!!!

    Can someone PLEASE tell me who the left-sided player is in the following partnerships:

    • Ferdinand and Vidic
    • Pepe and Ramos
    • Terry and Cahill
    • Mertesacker and Koscielny
    I mean the list REALLY does go on...but I think we all get the idea... ;)
    Last edited: June 26, 2014
  6. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    Luke Shaw off to Man United. That is no surprise and thirty million is ridiculous for a kid really. Maybe Rose will be worth that one day!?
  7. big fran Guest

    John terry although not left footed is a left sided defender as is vidic and moreno which is regardless of preferred foot. Jan is also a left sided defender that's the point I'm making. Jagielka has struggled for England playing on the left rather than on the right at club level to accommodate the right sided Cahill. If the above partnerships were reversed the results would be calamitous. I thought that would be clear to most!
  8. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

    Likes Received:
    Big Fran

    You make a valid point , my friend, which I can understand to SOME degree (although I do not necessarily agree that a top/world-class CB should be fazed by what 'side' of the central defence they are playing on).

    I suppose the BIGGEST obstacle in such a scenario would be that the player is simply not USED to playing on the other side of defence, but I'm not sure how playing in that area would affect somebody capacity to perform other than that (i.e familiarity), and PERHAPS distribution (but that's me being kind).

    So whilst I CAN agree that CB's may have a FAVOURED side, to suggest they are unable to adapt and play on the other - or that Spurs should NOT buy a defender on that basis- is CODS-WALLOP, in my humble opinion, of course. ;)

    You see,I would argue that Jagielka 'struggles' in the WC (for example) weren't due to him playing on the left-side of a defence, as much as they were due to a lack of awareness at the VERY highest level.

    I mean it's hard out there, and we ALL knew before heading into the WC that Jagielka was no world-beater, hence the reason many people were claiming the defence would be Englands achilles heel. But in all fairness to Phil, the Everton defender HAD performed admirably in MANY of England's games leading up to the WC. So to now claim that he has struggled, and say that it is due to him playing on the wrong side of the centre of defence, seems, to me, a little simplistic!

    Like I said, QUALITY CBs adapt. And in all truth, lets be honest, they are NOT being asked to do a different job to the one they are qualified to carry out. So whilst I DO understand what you are saying in that defenders have PREFERRED sides to play on, I don't believe (even for one second) it can be blamed for the display they produce on the pitch!

    I've taken the liberty of finding 2/3 examples of how our very own Vlad Chiriches manages to play BOTH sides of the central defence, and excel whilst doing so! Enjoy!

    Oh, and Fran my comments in my post were regarding people who have stated two left-FOOTED shouldn't/couldn't be played together.

    Indeed, only you will truly know what you meant when you said:

    ' Sounds more like a replacement for Jan rather than a partner being very left sided.. Possibly to partner Lovren I'm hearing with chiri and kaboul as bk up.'

    Now WHATEVER you meant, if you CLARIFY your position, and choose to explain yourself, then I am inclined to believe you. But due to the fact that Lovren is also a 'left-sided' CB, you can't blame some wondering as to what point you was actually making.;)

    Last edited: June 29, 2014
  9. notnats

    notnats Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    Interesting points and I admit that some CBs(not all) can be effective on both sides of defence although im not sure someone like Jan would be happy to be moved from his preffered side. Lovren is a right footer who mostly plays on the left side so I wonder how he would fare playing on the right side next to Jan?
    Ramos43 likes this.
  10. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

    Likes Received:
    I agree Notnats that Jan seems like the type that likes everything to be JUST right, in order to comfortable (or motivated) enough to perform but, for me, if you can't play BOTH sides of the CB position (being a CB) then SERIOUS questions need to be asked!

    In my opinion, players SHOULD be practising playing either side as part of their development from an early age - and if Jan hasn't, perhaps that famous Ajax academy we have all heard so much about isn't as polished/thorough as we all thought it was after all.... (as far as their CB are concerned at least).

    On a different note, it was performances such as the ones above that convinced that Vlad Chiriches not only has what it takes to be a success in the EPL, and at Spurs. But he also has a lot of qualities which earmark him as a potential future captain of our club, and instead of signing another defender to put in his way, Spurs should be intent of giving the 24 year old enough game time to aid his development.

    Obviously, he should have to earn his place like everybody else but I DON'T believe Spurs SHOULD posses 4 top-class CB on their books at the same time because it doesn't work in terms of giving everybody enough minutes on the pitch to build any kind of stability, rhythm or REAL partnerships (which then potentially has a knock-on effect on the team).

    3 Top-class and one youth/ experienced 4th choice is the most LOGICAL way to go. I understand that last season, Spurs had 1/4 CB's fit at one point, but that has to be consider a freak incident/occurrence.

    But their is a reason that Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern and Dortmund only possess 2/3 MAIN CB's within their squad.

    This is the reason why I have been saying that if Dawson is prepared to fight for his position as 4th choice, and we can consider Kabouls fitness issues a thing of the past, Spurs DON'T need another CB, in my opinion and would be better off investing in other areas of the team.

    Will be interested to see what Pochettino does with our 4 CB's come the start of the season. Especially the 3 ball-playing ones (Kaboul, Chiriches and Vertonghen) who seem to fit his preferred style perfectly.

    Pre-season begins in earnest next week...and I for one, can't wait!;)
    Last edited: June 27, 2014
    notnats likes this.
  11. big fran Guest

    I am a manager and coach of a very successful amateur side and believe most but not ALL centre half's do have not only a preferred side but also can only play one side and it has little or nothing to do with kicking foot. When u play a player on his weaker side u take him out of
    his ccomfort zone and at any level and more so the higher up the pyramid scheme u go where players need to be completely in the right frame of mind they come unstuck..
    Jagielka is one of the better cbs in the league and has been for years against top level players so should not be struggling so blatantly at WC level. It isn't much different than playing a winger or full bk on the opposite flank at this level believe me. Or asking a deep lying play maker to play as a number 10. Some of course can do both no problem but most cannot. Lovren can do both as can phillipe lahm ronaldo to
    name a few. Playing john terry on the right side would be like a fish out of water believe me. You don't put square pegs in round holes. England have done this again and are exiting early again. Scholes and carragher retired early because of it
    notnats and Ramos43 like this.
  12. Felon82 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    Wingers and FBs does affect what side you are on with regards to your stronger foot, CBs CMs and Strikers it doesnt really matter what foot you are as long as you can read the game and do what your supposed to do.
    Ramos43 likes this.
  13. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

    Likes Received:
    Big Fran, like I said, my friend, I UNDERSTAND where you are coming from with your views and I CAN agree with them to some degree. But lets remember we are talking about EPL/ International football players here, not Sunday league ones (however good they may be).

    These players have played MOST of their lives in their particular positions, and train EVERY DAY in order to master them....And you expect me to 'believe' that playing in them same role, albeit in a SLIGHTLY altered position, is a perfectly reasonable excuse for them to appear 'like a fish out of water'.... come on, pull the other one!

    I acknowledge that CB's/CM's may have a PREFERRED/FAVOURED position/side to play on, but the best, and those who aspire to be that, will always find a way to adapt.

    Perhaps you give Terry too little credit.... And I WON'T deny that maybe there might be a slight period of adaptation required, but comparing it to a winger/full-back moving to the opposite side of the pitch is a BIT extreme, to say the very least.

    Lets just look at CB's for a second. You claim in one breathe that Lovren, a player who predominately plays on the left side CAN adapt to either, but John Terry a player who has played at a higher level for a SIGNIFICANTLY longer period of time, cannot.

    Is that because he is incapable? Or is it because he is simply NOT use to it?

    I agree that any adjustment that may be needed is MORE mental than anything else, but the BEST players SHOULD be able to make those adjustments fairly comfortably, as well as change their playing style, if need, be to maintain their effectiveness.

    It is a players INTELLIGENCE, and the KNOWLEDGE of their position rather than technical attributes that will dictate how they cope being shifted from CB to, er...CB

    As far as your assertion that Jagielka has 'been one of the better CB's in the EPL for years' is a matter of opinion, I suppose, as I have never held the player in such high regard.

    And even so, there are plenty of examples of players thriving at domestic level only to find life difficult at International Level, with Andy Cole being a prime example.

    I agree that England put too many 'square pegs in round holes' in this tournament and therefore unbalanced the team, but playing Phil Jagielka on the right-side of defence was NOT one of them!
  14. big fran Guest

    Your wrong on so many levels and anyone on here with half a brain or has played in that position or coached will understand that. Like I say some players can play either side some cannot no matter how good they are. I'll guarantee you this.. If spurs are indeed looking for a centre half which we believe they are they will draw up a list of 4 or 5 centre half's which will all be right sided regardless of kicking foot or a player who can operate in both. I will bet my bottom they do not sign a left sided one to play alongside Jan and shuffle one across. If I'm wrong I will come on here and hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong as I have no problem in doing so as some may. The only reason we will sign a left sided is if indeed Jan moves on. Vidic terry king played all their careers on the left. Carragher Ferdinand Dawson all played on the
    right. This was not by chance ththat's just how it works MY FRIEND. That's why they signed agger to replace hyppia and we sign Jan to replace king. U will see Chelsea look to sign a left sided one shortly to replace terry and they have sold luiz as he cannot play left side well enough and they have ample cover on the right with Cahill zouma and ivanovic
  15. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

    Likes Received:
    Listen, my friend, lets get this CLEAR:

    • My INITIAL point was about two players with the same preferred striking foot being able to play together as a partnership.
    • My SECONDARY point was about a TOP/WORLD class 'left/right-sided' defender being able to adapt his game to play on the other side of the central defence.

    Now I am NOT debating whether Spurs will sign a left/right-sided CB, or not. I am simply saying that with PRACTICE, INTELLIGENCE and a CLEAR UNDERSTANDING of their role/position, as well as their own strengths and weaknesses, a TOP/WORLD class CB will find a way to adapt, and still be able to perform at a high level.

    I am NOT saying players don't have preferences, but to say that SOME CB's are INCAPABLE of playing as a CB, albeit on the other side is a NONSENSE!!!

    Now, before you reply, make sure you've have read the ENTIRETY of my message first, as it could save you some time.

    Look, I'm sure you've got some decent/talented defenders at the amateur club that you manage/train, but comparing them to L1 players, let alone EPL players is FANCIFUL, at best .

    You say some defenders CAN'T play either side, and I have always agreed with you. Not everyone has the intelligence/patience/willing to process what is required quickly enough to do so. I was simply stating that the TOP/WORLD class ones CAN adapt, and still perform.

    Like learning ANY new skill/craft, it comes down to a MENTAL capacity to comprehend what it is you have to do, and then the patience and willingness to practice, practice, practice.

    What do you think Terry/King/Vidic, or ANY other defender worth their weekly wage, would say if you asked him whether or not he was CAPABLE of playing on the right-side of a central defensive partnership? No! lol...Get out of ere!!!

    They MIGHT say that isn't their best position. They MIGHT even say it might take a bit of getting used to after playing most of their careers on the left-side. But one thing I'm sure they WOULDN'T say, is they CAN'T!

    Do you think when they first started playing football in the play ground that they were concerned with left/right-sided CB? No. That is something they LEARNED to be concerned with the older they got.

    Do you think that every central defender has the opportunity to play on their favoured/preferred side, especially if their is an established defender already playing there, or an injury crisis? No.

    Does that mean they are doomed to fail? No.

    Do you think that a manager (besides yourself, perhaps) is going to refrain from making a substitution, due to injury or form, replacing a left-sided CB with a right-sided CB, on the basis that the player wouldn't be playing in his role? No.

    I would suggest that PERHAPS the reason Chelsea sold Luiz, had MORE to do with the fact that PSG were prepared to pay £50m+ for a player that Mourinho didn't particularly rate as a defender, financial fair play and the opportunity for the Portugese manager to reshape his squad with the incoming funds, than whether or not he was a right-sided CB.

    There is the scent of coffee in the air, my friend, but I can only assume you have a blocked nose, because you aren't smelling it!
    Last edited: June 28, 2014
  16. big fran Guest

    Even more relevant up the football pyramid go does attention to detail comes into play. You do not play top
    Class players on thousands a week to play them week in week out of position which is what i said in my original and the article hints at. Only a ***** would sign a player who is clearly left sided to partner who is also left sided.. Would you do so or are u a *****? The same person who ccomes on here stating Dawson is still as quick/slow as he has ever been and still remain good enough and that naughton and rose are worth keeping. That holtby is a potential world star! Yet we all see and say different. Do we all watch different things to our friend Ramos
    or are we all *****s. A manager worth is weight in salt would not on a regular pair two such players week in and out. The end!
  17. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

    Likes Received:
    I am a manager and coach of a very successful amateur side and believe most but not ALL centre half's do have not only a preferred side but also can only play one side and it has little or nothing to do with kicking foot. When u play a player on his weaker side u take him out of
    his ccomfort zone and at any level and more so the higher up the pyramid scheme u go where players need to be completely in the right frame of mind they come unstuck.. - Big Fran to Ramos43 28/06/14

    Oh, Fran... I'm not sure what it is you are trying to prove here but honestly, the more you write... the more desperate your argument begins to sound!

    Listen, throughout this conversation your points have been littered with inaccuracies which really do you, and your creditability, little, or no, justice.

    You see, ANYONE can use terms like: 'believe me', 'I guarantee you' or 'you are wrong' as a unsubstantiated base to build their argument upon, but why WOULD/SHOULD I 'believe you' when even you seem to be unsure of what it is you are, actually, saying.

    I mean, apart from the whole - 'Sounds more like a replacement for Jan rather than a partner being very left sided.. Possibly to partner Lovren I'm hearing with chiri and kaboul as bk up.' - comment you made, despite vagueness of such a remark, AND the fact that Lovrens FAVOURED/PREFERRED position is EXACTLY the same as the player you suggests he could partner. Something which you later claim: 'Only a ***** would sign a player who is clearly left sided to partner who is also left sided..'


    Now that wouldn't be such a BIG deal, but for you later stating this: 'John terry although not left footed is a left sided defender as is vidic and moreno which is regardless of preferred foot. Jan is also a left sided defender that's the point I'm making. Jagielka has struggled for England playing on the left rather than on the right at club level to accommodate the right sided Cahill. If the above partnerships were reversed the results would be calamitous. I thought that would be clear to most!'

    Making NO reference to your LATER statement, which was written AFTER I showed your first two comments to be MISGUIDED (at best), where you seem to adjust your view point and say 'some' players are indeed CAPABLE of playing either side of a CB pairing.

    Confused? Sounds like it!

    But then, on top of ALL of that, as the conversation went on, I read as you claimed that asking a CB to play in the other CB position(i.e on the left/right hand side) : ' Isn't much different than playing a winger or full bk on the opposite flank at this level BELIEVE ME. Or asking a deep lying play maker to play as a number 10. Some of course can do both no problem but most cannot. Lovren can do both as can phillipe lahm ronaldo to
    name a few. Playing john terry on the right side would be like a fish out of water BELIEVE ME'

    The only thing I'm beginning to believe at this point is that you've been on the Ol' Shandy's, my friend.

    Because how can you possibly say (with a straight face, or with ANY conviction) that asking a CB to play... CB , is like asking 'a deep lying play maker to play as a number 10'.

    You see, it was at that point (perhaps a little bit before) that I KNEW you obviously hadn't done your homework!!!

    Because a deep-lying playmaker and a no10 have two different roles ENTIRELY, in most cases. In fact, the ONLY similarity between the two is that they are responsible for linking the different departments in the team together. I could go further into it, but, after a comment like that, I'm not sure there would be much point, even, if I did.

    And that is WITHOUT your assertion that asking a CB to play CB:' Isn't much different than playing a winger or full bk on the opposite flank at this level.'

    Again the similarities are MINIMAL at best. NON EXISTENT at worst! And in truth it is only because I am a football man, and can KIND OF see what you are trying to say, that I even bothered to indulge you with further debate.

    I mean, lets look at it for a second. Erik Lamela: a player who thrives playing down the right side of midfield due to his desire to cut inside and shoot, using his NATURALLY strongest foot to gain optimum power and accuracy on his efforts to score goals.
    Similar to Arjen Robben, (in terms of in-game tendencies) this SIMPLY does NOT happen if you play him on the opposite side, as the logistics don't correspond to his preferred actions.It simply isn't possible for him to 'cut inside' and strike the ball with his strongest foot playing on the opposite (left) flank, taking away arguably one of his biggest assets/weapons.

    That, however, does NOT mean he couldn't be successful playing on the 'other' (left) side. It just means he would have to LEARN, and ADAPT, in order to have a similar threat in that position!

    Now, a CB may have to get use to which way to turn (inside), or where they stand on the football pitch, but ultimately their job stays the same. They are not charged with, creating, crossing, shooting, scoring- just defending. Keeping the ball away from their goal.

    Yes they may have to play the ball out from the back, but providing the people in-front of them are making angles/ dropping off to receive the ball, that shouldn't be too difficult

    Another thing you wrote that I found interesting was, when you said: 'U will see Chelsea look to sign a left sided one shortly to replace terry and they have sold luiz as he cannot play left side well enough and they have ample cover on the right with Cahill zouma and ivanovic'

    Now seeing as Zouma is fundamentally a left sided CB (who CAN also play on the right), I wonder just where all this 'believe me' talk actually stems from.

    So, you coach a few people up the park on a Sunday. Is that REALLY enough for you to think you can HONESTLY challenge The RAM in a football debate???

    Listen, 'Arry said it best when he proclaimed ' BS baffles brains', and Fran no matter how many times you say 'believe me', or how many times you mention 'pyramids/schemes', in the end, it all means NAFF ALL in the cold light of day! Especially when the rest of the comments (on this particular subject ;)) appear as FLAWED and BAFFLING as your own.

    These are ANOTHER pair of defenders who appear to have little problems displaying their considerable talent EITHER side of the CENTRAL DEFENCE...:cool:

    Ps Many folk WILL see things differently to 'your friend' Ramos, simply because we are watching the game from two different perspectives ENTIRELY. Now, sit Ramos down with someone like Mourinho and perhaps you would be more likely witness us 'see eye to eye' on a wider range of topics!

    It's been fun Fran, it REALLY has!:D

    On a slightly more interesting note, though, ' I wonder what the missus is doing going to rustle up in the oven, on Sunday...Beef, lamb, chicken or pork' (see avatar/picture). I'm bloody starving!!!
  18. notnats

    notnats Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    I think both Big fran and Ramos make some very good and valid points here and I agree with a lot of what they have to say. I agree that a good CB should be prepared and able to work both sides of defence if and when needed. But in saying that I also think there is a case for differentiating lets say as an example, left sided players and very left sided players as quoted in some comments made. I have to admit to making an assumption that a player like Lovren although a preferred left side player isn't necessarily a very left sided player and due to him being a right footer and could slot in on the right of defence next to Jan. Again this is an assumption on my behalf and maybe a bit of wishful thinking. But having said that I also believe that a player like Jan who is indeed a very left sided player, not due just as a preference but because this is his best position where he is at his most effective and proficient and should not be moved to the right unless absolutely necessary and as a last resort. In fact I think it would be a very brave if not stupid manager that would even ask Jan to move over a bit. Im not saying that Jan couldn't play on the right but I doubt he would be as effective so why would we? Left sided, very left sided its all very confusing I know but look you two started it
  19. big fran Guest

    Thank u nonats at last thank u and Ramos zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I don't think I have any problem going head to toe with a ***** who does not understand the term CLEARLY and would sign a clearly left sided player to partner another clearly left sided player which if u scroll to top is what I said and the article originally is getting at and also thinks rose naughton and Dawson are good enuf for top four.
  20. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

    Likes Received:
    Resorting to name calling and insults, eh, Big Fran? Oooh, how the mighty have fallen!

    Anyone would think this was the school playground NOT a football forum... Anyhow, I'll forgive you, just like I have forgiven ALL the others who have tried, and failed, to hang with The RAM! ;)

    Now, I admit, my last post was a BRUTAL, and METHODICAL, dissection of a flawed and misguided logic, but just remember...you MADE me do it!

    You see the longer our 'friendly' debate went on, gradually, the MORE disrespectful you became (which seems to be a pattern that is emerging amongst my challengers), which is fine in itself, and even slightly amusing, however when speaking to a football-man of my intelligence, knowledge and understanding - such a move can ONLY be considered unwise, naive and foolish.

    So, may this be a lesson to you, my friend...;)

    Now as far as my opinion on Mike Dawson goes, it hasn't changed for the last 3/4 years. If I was manager of Tottenham Hotspur football club (now there's a thought) I would have sold the guy as soon as I walked through the door.

    The fact some people ONLY seem to be recognising, what I have known for a long time, now, is probably why I appear so indifferent towards Dawsons presence at the club. But let me CLARIFY for you, and anyway else who may wish to put words in my mouth:

    Ramos on... Dawson

    If I was manager, I would have sold Dawson a long time ago. However, if the powers that be, at the club, decide to keep the Spurs stalwart around, I believe there are FAR worst defenders Spurs could have as a FOURTH/4th CHOICE CB.

    Ramos on... Naughton

    Kyle is a decent/good player. Composed, technically assured and defensively sound, Naughton would be considered a good purchase for MOST teams within the EPL. What I like about Kyle:

    • is that he VERY rarely gives the ball away, which is perfect for any team that aims to maintain/dominate possession.
    • is he KNOWS his limitations as a player. Kyle is never going to be what you might call a marauding/ adventurous full-back, so what he does is play a supporting role, as opposed to attacking role, which allows the player in front of him to focus on how to exploit the space in the final third WITHOUT worrying about Naughton making runs which may lead to clogging up of the areas of the pitch that they would like to work in. This shows a degree of on-the-field INTELLIGENCE and MATURITY. Indeed, Verdan Corluka was a similar type of player who focussed more on how to support the likes of Lennon, by giving him the ball (early and in good positions) and allowing Aaron to get on with it!
    • he is a TEAM player and a good professional. Never do you hear about Kyle complaining to the press/media about a lack of minutes on the pitch, or about playing out of position which he has done during the majority of his time at Spurs. When called upon, wherever he is asked to play, he just gets on with the job at hand, always giving 100% in the process. When a player is prepared to do that, putting the club/team I love first, he WILL ALWAYS get my respect.

    Now, I understand that Naughton has become a easy target/ scapegoat for MOST Spurs fans to blame for the teams failings/shortcoming...But I think we have already established, that I am NOT like most Spurs fans ;). With that being said, if I was Spurs manager, I would have sold Kyle Naughton a long time ago, as he will NEVER offer Walker the kind of competition he needs to REALLY push his game on to the next level.

    Ramos on... Rose

    I think that Danny Rose, like the rest of the team, struggled last season, after making a promising start to the campaign.
    We should remember that this was ONLY his 2nd full-season in the EPL, and his 1st campaign as a REGULAR starter for Spurs.

    I agree that his game requires PLENTY of refining if he is going to succeed at a club like Spurs, but I have seen enough of Rose to suggest that he has the potential to go on and become a VERY good LB should he choose to put in the necessary work.

    Lets NOT forget that he played his ENTIRE career at LM before switching to LB, and that is NOT an easy transition to make considering fullback is PROBABLY the MOST demanding position in a football team in the modern game.

    Full-back is NOTORIOUSLY a old/experienced man's position, hence the reason there are so few world class players in that area of the pitch, under 25.

    At 23, Danny, with the right guidance STILL has time to develop his game and become more of a polished player in that position.

    So there you have it, a breakdown on Ramos43 TRUE thoughts, and feelings, regarding a few members of the Spurs squad that some people continuously choose to MISQUOTE him about.

    Hopefully this will clear things up for you Big Fran, meaning we don't have to revisit this same ,rather, BORING subject again in the future!

    Indeed, the only reason I bothered going over this old ground again, apart from to clarify my position, was because like I like you, despite what some might call 'a show of childish petulance' displayed at times during our debate... No hard feelings, hey! ;)

    Last edited: June 29, 2014

Guest comments allowed! Use 'Add your comment' button

Share This Page