What did we learn from the Everton game?

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Mattj78, August 17, 2016.

Share This Page

  1. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    As we draw nearer to our second game of the new season and our first of the season at the slowly disappearing White Hart Lane, what did we learn from that first outing against Everton?

    Firstly it was always going to be a tricky game. With a poor end to last season still concerning some, it was important that we didn't lose.
    The first half suggested that the players were still reeling from that final day thumping and maybe still hungover from the debacle of the Euro's.
    Spurs looked leggy and at the back we looked out of sorts. I feel that Vertonghen is a weak link and would prefer to see Wimmer start alongside Alderweireld.

    We also need to be wary of not being caught on the flanks. Teams will be very aware, as Everton showed in the first 45, that both Rose and Walker push up and will try and exploit he space behind.

    Kane, by his own admittance, looked short on fitness and possibly confidence. On his own he was isolated and Everton had little problem marshalling last seasons golden boot winner. I will return to our striking options shortly.

    Everton took the lead early and the goal was slightly lucky. Barkley whipped the ball in, no one got a touch and the ball skidded up off the surface and into the corner.
    We then lost Lloris who is now out for around 4 weeks and Everton could have gone in 2 up but for a smart save from Vorm.

    5 minutes into the second half, Pochettino felt he needed to change things and he removed Dier and replaced him with summer signing Jansen. Immediately you could see a difference. Everton now had 2 strikers to look after and Kane and Jansen look to have a good understanding with each other already. Jansen's movement, strength and ball control is excellent and he can be a key part of this seasons title tilt.

    And here is something Poch needs to have learnt from this game. Playing 2 up front has to be the way to go this season. With 2 up top we looked dangerous and it gave us much more width.

    We also learnt that Lamela is still getting better. He must watch his tackling as his enthusiasm is sometimes in danger of becoming stupidity. However, his effort, fitness levels and ability are good to see. His goal showed a cool reading of the game. Walker whipped in a fantastic cross and Lamela ran across his man to head superbly into the bottom corner.

    Wanyama took time to settle in the first period but looked strong in the second half. It will be interesting to see what Pochettino does once Dembele's suspension ends. It's certainly a positive problem to have.
    If Poch is to go with 2 up top, who drops out of the team? It will be a midfielder but who can you drop?
    It certainly won't be Alli. Lamela? Unlikely? You would expect Dembele and Wanyama to be rotated with Champions league football coming this season.
    That leaves Eriksen. I like him but if anyone was to drop out, it may well be him. With a new contract still without his ink on the page, it will be interesting to see what happens.

    "You're mad" I hear you cry! Drop Eriksen??!! Maybe I am but I am certain playing Jansen and Kane will bring us success this season.

    Whatever happens, it's got to be a good problem to have quality players to be able to rotate.

    Some be moaned our performance at Everton but I saw plenty to be optimistic about. The first half was not good but the second was more like Spurs of last season before the end of season collapse.

    For the next game: swap Verts for Wimmer , bring in Jansen for.....Eriksen?

    As ever, come on you Spurs and let's make this a season to celebrate!!!!
    Jonesy, Nomadico and Deggsy56 like this.
  2. geoff james Guest

    With all the games we are expected to play all the squad needs to be rotated. less experienced players need game time and these should be utilised against weaker teams. by clever rotation we avoid long term injuries and keep all the players fresh ready to play. you cannot keep playing the same eleven all season.
    Mattj78 likes this.
  3. josh_b

    josh_b Active Member

    Likes Received:
    We can't play two up front all year with two fit strikers. It simply won't work. And Poch has brought in these players primarily to fit his 4-2-3-1 system, which is Plan A, and secondly Janssen to offer a Plan B by switching to two up top.

    Alli looked pretty poor, also. Possibly needs more of a break. Eriksen only *looks* poor because most of his work in terms of pressing is blocking passing lanes, not pressing the ball/the man. Hence, he looks more lightweight. We definitely look less creative without him on the field and he's vital to our team this year.
    Remy Uwilin and Mattj78 like this.
  4. Andy Guest

    Wanyama and Dier should not play together false stop.

    Spurs need to play one defensive midfielder with one box to box. Only Winks and Dembele can play as box to box midfielders. Possibly Onomah can also learn this position.

    With Wanyama and Dier both in the team, it will never work.

    I am not sure what more Winks has to do, to get into the team.

    If Pochettino isn't willing to give Winks a chance, then the alternative is to bring in a new player, as cover for Dembele.
    Mattj78 likes this.
  5. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Pochettino gets praise for bringing-on young players, but where's the evidence? Kane was only given a chance in the PL three months into the 2014/15 season when it was obvious to the world and his wife that Soldado was never going to hack it, while Delle Alli was thrown in when Bentaleb and Mason were both injured - where are the others? Putting young players in the squad or on the bench isn't the same as actually playing them, and Pochettino seems unable or unwilling to rotate the team except in the direst of circumstances, stability no longer being a good thing when it becomes inflexibility. As for his transfers, many are totally inexplicable - why pay millions in fees and wages for the likes of Fazio and N'Jie and then freeze them out? If they weren't good enough, why were they bought in the first place? It'll be interesting to see how Son gets on after the Olympics - is he going to get the £22 million cold shoulder? I just don't get Pochmania - on every measure we're treading water, and last year's third would have been a fifth or sixth without the collapse of the usual suspects - I'd like to be proved wrong about him, but I don't think I will be.
  6. ScottR Guest

    Two up front should be the way to go against a weakened Palace. I'd drop Wanyama this time to see if Dier can get back in form.

    Watching Eriksen week in and "weak" out, I just don't think he's undroppable. Yes, I remember a lot of assists last year, but I also remember quite a few poor deliveries, especially from corners. Regardless, I don't know if he was any less effective last week than Alli. One of the two should be dropped and a youngster inserted.

    The Wimmer story is perplexing as he didn't play hardly at all in the pre-season. I heard about a black eye, but why did he get so little action (truly, I don't even remember him playing at all)? Nonetheless, Jan looked completely off the pace and was one of the reasons we looked so lame on defense.

    Last, I think Loris tweaked him hamstring in the Euro final. He dove to make a save in extra time, and there was video footage on him hobbling around before failing to save the Eder shot. Truly it was a good shot, but I'm almost certain that was when Hugo was first injured.
    Mattj78 likes this.
  7. Felon82 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    Id be more inclined to ask what have we learned from last season?
    By looks of it nothing.

    This remarkable season we had last year was a myth it was a poor league that we completely bottled when the time came to step up. Couldnt even put the scum in their place.

    Jan vertonghen has an atitude problem in that he thinks he is better than he actually is, yes hes a good ball player but hes an average defender.

    We are still lacking in pace and guile going forward, Pochs plan A is to keep aimlessly going through the middle at snails pace predictably lacking any quick thought of pass/play/run which most Prem defences lap up easy, proven by our 13 draws last season.

    1stly you can only play through the middle if you have highly technical players all on the same wave length this is not something we have.

    To create space in the danger areas you need clever pacey runners and width.
    We started to employ this second half to much more effect and the game changed.

    Yet the result is the same another draw.

    More than likely an organised up for it palace will set up shop and we'll roll the ball around AVB style and fail to break it down.

    Both Alli and Kane look like theyve forgotten how to play which is worrying as they were our main goal threat last season, both need to rediscover form and fast.

    Last season was a 1 off and all the usuall suspects look to have stepped up back on track securing 3 points while we ponder for 1.

    Whats going on with chadli, njie, son, mason, bentaleb etc if theyre not part of the plans why are they still taking up places of players that could make a difference and be pushing for starts?

    Wanyama and Janssen are 2 solid signings but are they next level? Keep us up there? Title challenging? Top 4?

    Securing CL again this year has to be a minimum requirement for me else we have gone backwards and risk transitioning again and again with our cream looking elsewhere for modern day wages and fees.

    And so the Spurs pleasure cruise continues its all part of the 30year plan.

    Its been a while, good to be back
  8. NYSpursFan Guest

    I was not convinced last year, and I'm even less so this season. We still lack pace up front, and playing two defensive midfielders does not help matters. I think we will remain strong defensively, but goals will be hard to come by. We tied too many matches last year, and I think it will continue this year.

    We really need a winger who can dribble and attack with pace. Lamella is that person in theory, but he is easily dispossessed. Nobody else up front has any pace to speak of. Walker and Rose have more pace than Lamela, Erickson, etc. Son may be the exception to that, but he never starts.

    So what did I learn? I learned that we did not really improve the squad, with the assumption that we will do just as well this season. Even if Janssen has a monstrous year, he will be no better or slightly better than Kane goal-wise. We need more goals from other players, and I don't seen where they will actually come from.
  9. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    We played some excellent football last season. Yes, it was a strange season but I'm not sure we can say we have fallen behind after just one game.
    If we want to do that, we may as well give up now.
    Let's look at the other teams shall we? Arsenal were woeful yet still scored 3 against a shoddy Liverpool defence. Liverpool scored 4 but couldn't defend a paper bag.
    Man City were okay in spells but ultimately Sunderland were unlucky not to come away with a point. Defoe had a couple of chances you would expect him to score.
    United flattered deceive. Bournemouth never got going and although United were clinical in the finishing, I didn't see anything that made me think they are any better than last season. And I certainly would be getting excited about Pogba. Defensively he may add strength but look how Lamela struggled to adapt to the pace of the premier league. The Italian league is so slow you could paint a room and watch it dry before anything near to excitement occurred.
    Everton have plenty of money. They've just paid 30 million for Bolassie. Would we really want to spend that amount on a player who only bothers if the mood takes him?

    I see comments about how amazing the so called big teams were at the weekend. I just didn't see it to be honest. Spurs were positive on the second half and people forget how young Delle. He is a brilliant young player but still raw. He will be fine.
    There was little that I saw that suggested we are miles behind the likes of City, United, Liverpool, Arsenal and oh yes, I forgot Chelsea and their new utter Conte.

    Firstly, West Ham were awful. They supposedly hated Sam Allardyce football but I'm sure that was much better than lumping every ball long.

    Chelsea won via a payer who should have been sent off. Costa should have had 4 yellow cards and a red if the officials had done their job!!! How he was anywhere near the ground let alone the pitch defies belief.

    But Chelsea played okay. Did they look wonderful? Superb? Frightening.

    Writing Spurs off after one game is senseless. I'm a pessimist but do some actually want us to fail?

    I think we have a great squad, some real quality and as good a chance as any of the top teams, of which we are one, to challenge for the title.
    I saw little from the others at the weekend to make me think they are all suddenly better than last season. They will improve but so will we.

    Poch will get it right as he did for the majority of last season. Forget last years poor end. It's gone, it's done.
    New season, new challenges and we have no need to worry about what anybody else is doing.

    No need at all.

    Come on You Spurs!!!
    Spurporter and Nomadico like this.
  10. Nomadico Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    Thank you Mattj, First game and already we have doom and gloom,come on Felon at least wait until we have played a few before slamming the team..COYS..
    Mattj78 and Remy Uwilin like this.
  11. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

    Likes Received:
    Made some very good points, I'd disagree with you on a few statements.

    Eriksen will play a vital role if we're to go anywhere this season, I'd argue instead to rotate Alli. Putting Eriksen in his favorable CAM position can really open up our creativity...like when he was playing in between Lamela and Chadli a few seasons back. At times last season Dele played along Dier and performed well as our deep lying playmaker; it's a role he is capable of performing when Dembele is out. I can't see Wanyama and Dier playing together; it's redundant.

    As for Kane and Janssen, they play very well together...it's good that Poch has the option to swipe like for like or even latter in games switch our system to play with 2 up top...depending of course on the opposition we're facing. I also believe Vert is still recovering from his injury over the summer and also trying to get his confidence back to the level of middle season form last year where he and Toby were spectacular.

    The Everton game was challenging, props to Koeman; he's one hell of a manager...that 343 was hard to play against. Especially with Barry and Gueye defending that back line....Idrissa Gueye is a player to watch; like his playing style; great tackler and sound at reading the game. They outnumbered us once we went in the final 3rd...until Janssen came on. I do hope the N'Koudou deal goes through or give N'jie a shot; we need someone who can stretch a defense....going off 1-1 to score or cross in the box.

    All in all, taking in consideration how last season ended and the youth of our squad...this isn't that big a deal; let's see how they respond against palace!!

    Nomadico and Mattj78 like this.
  12. Felon82 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    Last season was a gimme 2/3 places and same old Tottenham had no logical plan for any competition blew them all just to fully focus on capitulating in the league.

    My feeling is Poch's methods are very 1 dimensional and will always end in burn out or being out thought over a season.

    We have areas in the side that need differring options but all 1st team quality, we seem to have a stock pile of players that arent good enough and arent used who need moving on.

    As for the bigger sides they all had a slump of form and made decisions 2/3rds in what was more important to them so werent exactly at the races.

    We on the other hand were giving it our all and still averaging our samey points total.

    So with additions players managers these sides only need to raise their game to their usual standards to leap frog us its not about improving massively for them just upping their game.

    All im saying is that have we improved from last season enough to compete with these sides and stay in the top 4 or title challenging spots? Im not so sure

    Champions league campaign have we the quality/squad to cope? Im not so sure

    And have a good campaign in both?

    We need a 2/3 year CL participation on the bounce from now else dont be suprised when the follow up summers we see stars leaving again.
    Spurporter and Mattj78 like this.
  13. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    I absolutely agree that we need consistent champions league football. Going into a 60,00 seater new stadium will be a nightmare if we have to have the same attractions as Wet Spam.
    But I do think Poch will make us consistent and in the top 4. His teams do have a history of tailing off at season end but he needs to learn from that. He needs to develop and mature as much as the players.

    It's too early to say we haven't improved or we won't improve.
    I saw signs on Saturday in the first half that we haven't, and in the second half that we very much have and we have better options than last season when it comes to changing tactics.
    I think Poch has been one dimensional at times but I am encouraged that he didn't wait too long to change things on Saturday.

    I'm certain we will have frustrating periods in the season but that's the joy of Spurs!

    I am convinced we can kick on from last season and believe we will.

    Time will tell but the squad is better than last season even with only 2 additions and let's not forget that more may still come in before Jim White gets over excited sat next a couple of ladies dressed as bananas!!
    Spurporter, Nomadico and Felon82 like this.
  14. Felon82 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    Of course im not writing anything off but u know Matt as well as i do for a long sufferring spurs fan, if we dont keep pace with the big boys from the off wel be back to square 1 again.
    With CL participation i would have liked to see a bit more match winning quality added.
    Jonesy and Mattj78 like this.
  15. Big fran Guest

    Jeez doom merchants at it again already. I'll always take a draw first game of season away from home. Even more so at a place like goodison.
    Talking tactics though and in particular 442. Count alli out as an orthodox centre mid/box to no it won't happen. Later in his career. He's a number ten at this moment. Likewise dier he plays too flat and too deep in a two. It would have to be wanyama and dembele but then u lack craft and guile. If you lack craft and guile then you need pacy wide men. (We have eriksen and lamela) talented but pacy not! And also inverted. You will count on one hand how many games spurs start with two up. There will be more Kane as a no 10 or Jansen out wide.
    It will be either 433 4141 4231 which in my opinion are all ways of dressing up the modern era of 451 systems which like it or lump it win the majority of titles or comps.
    Spurporter and Nomadico like this.
  16. Nomadico Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    Without doubt we need some more pace up front and I'm sure Levy and Poch are working on that.Poch has spoken after every match telling us the team will learn and we are young so can only get better,I just hope HE learns from some of his tactical blunders and finds a way to play Kane and Janssen together,it will be close this season so every point is vital starting with Palace on Saturday,if the team do there bit,we as fans must do our's,stay behind the team and push them on instead of slamming them after every match..COYS
  17. Spurporter Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    I would like to disagree with Matt, but on entirely different matter. Spurs did not play with 2 strikers at any point in the match. Janssen was the only striker, while Kane was moved to midfield. 4-1-4-1 is what Poch came up with when Dier left. Kane played alongside Alli, not Janssen. That proved to be advantageous.
    What Everton game taught us was Poch is confident enough in his lads to change configuration when situation is calling for it.
    Speaking of last season, both contests against Toffies resulted in draws, so no step back as of yet, Felon.
    Mattj78 likes this.
  18. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    Fair point.
  19. Jonesy

    Jonesy Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    Some valid points. A draw at Goodison is respectable but if we really want to kick on and mount a serious challenge, these are games we need to start killing off and taking 3 points instead of 1! Last seasons fixture at Everton typified this.

    Glad to be back and bring on PL and CL :)
    Nomadico and Felon82 like this.

Guest comments allowed! Use 'Add your comment' button

Share This Page