User's guide: WHY Pochettino is a SPURFECT fit for Tottenham

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Ramos43, May 15, 2014.

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  1. Dom Guest

    Right you can choose who ever you want but in this case, Ramos is talking about his choice in manager, he clearly didn't pick Ramos because he hates him, but rather that he likes him, this is my case and point that I did not swallow his so called football expert knowledge, if this would have been a discussion about who was the best Hulk then your profile pic would have been relevant, there are motivations to actions and its only natural to look at those when analysing someones "expert football opinion" with claiming to be an expert comes scrutiny. And it so happens he choose the Spurs manager with the worst ever premier league record, winning less than a 3rd of his games, so it has to make you wonder.
  2. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

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    Dom- Does the phrase don't hate the player, hate the game, mean ANYTHING to you? Get over the profile picture, already...Your apparent obsession with it is borderline RIDICULOUS!!!
    The ONLY people that would mention such an IRRELEVANT feature to my post is somebody who is trying DESPERATELY to discredit me, without having much joy.
    So what they do is attempt to pick fault/flaw in the most INSIGNIFICANT thing they can find, to help reassure them of the BRITTLE BELIEFS.

    And YOUR the one who enjoys referring to me as a 'football expert', NOT me!!!

    Listen my friend, your mission to try and outpoint me isONLY going to prove futile...Do you think you are the first to attempt such a feat? lol Give up already, man, and realise I am NOT your enemy....

    Now how about you stop clutching at straws and CONSIDER that MAYBE I just liked the picture!!!

    Jeeezzz....Who knew a picture could cause such a stir. lol

    Now, as bizzare as this might sound, and bear in mind that this is JUST a suggestion, Dominic, but, how about we TRY talking football (and about how much we're ALL looking forward to MP taking over at the Lane)??? :eek:;)
  3. notnats

    notnats Well-Known Member

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    Dom - To be honest mate it looks like your just a bit irked with Ramos and the way he presents himself but really all I can say is try to take it all with a grain of salt after all it is a forum.
    Mattj78 likes this.
  4. THBN Guest

    You have set the bar very low to promote your man, an achievement to beat Newcastle in freefall, West Ham and Aston Villa, really? You claim Everton are a big club, yet club size these days is determined by money and money alone, by no stretch of the imagination can Everton be considered big.

    His proven in the Premier League is 39% proven, he couldn't even beat Tim Sherwood!

    He may be a success but he is far more of a gamble than you imply and most fans know it which is why we prefer Frank de Boer.
    Mattj78 likes this.
  5. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

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    Ah, a new member to the forum...Welcome. :)

    That is an interesting perspective you have formed there. Perhaps in, me, replying to your claims, you will decide to form a new one....Perhaps you won't. ;)

    Now, Where shall I begin....Oh, yes, ...'Setting the bar low'...

    The 'achievement' was ACTUALLY an 8th placed finish (which lead to The Saints best ever EPL position), and the FACT that MP had helped amass a record number of points, in the process.

    We should REMEMBER that the clubs that I have mentioned in my article are not only richer in history, reputation and fan base (i.e. revenue) but they are also ESTABLISHED EPL sides, whereas Southampton were ONLY enjoying their 2nd season back in the top-flight.

    But listen, all making such a point was designed to highlight, was the PROGRESSION/STRIDES Southampton have been making since appointing Mauricio Pochettino halfway through the 2012/2013 season.

    Has Liverpool, and Brendan Rodgers not been heralded for making a jump from 7th place to 2nd (with a VASTLY superior team/squad to the Saints) whilst also playing a brand of the football that excites and entertains even the neutral?

    Well my point is, Southampton have also made great leaps (14th to 8th) in the space of one summer, in terms of league position and points accumilated, whilst making FEWER additions to the first team.

    Of course you have attempted to highlight CERTAIN ASPECTS of my article to serve your agenda/argument, yet we should ALSO remember that I wrote:

    'After inheriting a newly promoted side, that were just 3 points from safety in the EPL, Pochettino not only went on to redefine the teams playing style that very same season, but he also achieved a respectable 14th placed finish, in the process.

    With impressive victories against Man City (home 3-1) Liverpool (away 1-3) and Chelsea (home 2-1) highlights of that particular campaign.

    Pochettino was creating a FLUID, COHESIVE and HIGH TEMPO side, on a non-existent budget.'

    As far as you claim that 'the size of a club is determined by money, and money alone' I would suggest that, that is a SHORT-SIGHTED, UNBALANCED and FICKLE view when you take the time to consider the clubs who would be disregarded by adhering to such a statement. Because whether you are talking about clout in the transfer market, or amassed revenue within the organisation, your theory CLEARLY flawed.

    For example: Does Monaco's new found financial muscle in the transfer market mean they can now be considered a bigger club than the relatively modest spending, yet prestigious, and world renowned, Inter Milan?

    Or what about Hamberg SV, a team that makes more money than Roma annually. Would you consider them to have a greater appeal globally than the famous Italian club, either as a football institution OR, indeed, a football team?

    Now I could understand if you were to say that money has a DIRECT impact on the quality of a team/squad. But to say 'the size of a club is determined by money, and money alone' is DISPUTABLE, at best.

    As I have stated already on your website, Spurs have the talent to cause ANY team in world football problems should they click, and perform to anything like their potential, as a unit(or individually) ...let alone S'hampton.

    Yet if you watch the two games again, in which we scored 6 goals, you will notice that at least 3 of the goals scored by Spurs were the result of GLARING INDIVIDUAL ERRORS by the Saints, with Hoosvield, Lovren and Clyne all guilty making OBVIOUS blunders(including slips, mistimed kicks and an own goal). So, although Tim/Spurs DID capitalise and punish Pochettinos men fully, you could argue that Tottenham/Tim were very fortunate that the SOME of the Saints players were so GENEROUS in their defending.

    In regards to MP win %, I am NOT someone who gives much credence to STATS, as far as football is concerned. So using them in ANY context, in relation to a conversation with me, is POINTLESS, in my eyes.

    Football, my friend, is a CIRCUMSTANTIAL and SUBJECTIVE sport, two things which STATS do NOT account for. i.e. 90% passing accuracy from an individual in a match can appear impressive. BUT if 85% of those passes are backwards/sideways it becomes a LESS spectacular achievement.

    Even a 3-1 scoreline does not, NECESSARILY, tell you the (full) truth about a football game/match...

    I mean what win % would you expect from a manager of S'hampton? I would think Rogers and Martinez's win % are VASTLY different at their respective new clubs(Liverpool and Everton), than it was at their old (Swansea and Wigan), so I fail to see how that argument/point holds ANY weight, whatsoever.

    And lastly, your TYPICAL fan is a fickle being at the BEST of times, who is OFTEN swayed by a number of different things when formulating their opinions...and yet, a real/deep KNOWLEDGE/UNDERSTANDING of the game is NOT always one of them. ;)
  6. notnats

    notnats Well-Known Member

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    Its true that stats don't always tell the full story but they don't lie either. I don't think you can say that football is all circumstantial and subjective, its like living in a world surrounded by pink fluffy clowds and believing only what you choose to believe. In the real world stats provide analytical, factual and objective information that should not be ignored so easily. Of course you can always read between the lines, passing accuracies are often flattering when a player safely passes the ball backwards and sideways with no real endeavour, so if you want to look deeper to get a better understanding of that players abilities you can look at other stats, goals , assists , successful through balls, and so on. We can be dazzled by the flair of someone like Townsend but has he made any significant contributions ? even Dembele could be questioned by his stats, he has very high passing accuracy but if you have a closer look at other stats you might say that he doesn't do enough with the ball and sometimes slows the game down. Opinions are subjective, theres nothing wrong with that, but they cant truly be backed up without something factual and objective. The same could be said for people who dismiss FDB winning four titles in a row at Ajax by saying anyone could have and should have won titles at Ajax. In reality this is a record for the club which hadn't won the league since 2004 until FDB took over. Where the stats don't do this achievement justice ( in my humble and subjective opinion ) is when you consider that during this winning spell Ajax have sold their best talent. Having said all that I will still concede that although Ajax is no longer the European powerhouse they once were and the stats might say that they have had a few poor years in the CL, but in my opinion and reading between the lines, I believe that given their current status and the ridiculous groups they were placed in, that they were respectable and had some fantastic wins against top opposition including a few EPL big boys but I know that's just my opinion . What im saying is that you cant pretend that stats are irrelevant and unnecessary and backing up opinions without some real facts is deluded.
  7. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

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    What can I say Notnats.... I'm old school!:cool:

    I take your point about stats, and if you find that you enjoy, or find it helpful, using them, then so be it. But if I want to ANALYSE a players contribution in a match, I simply STUDY his performance using a CLEARLY defined set of criteria to do so.

    I like to think my reasoning ability, knowledge of football, and capacity to remain objective are equal, if not better than any computer!!!

    For example, Dembele HAS endured a difficult season, but there have been mitigating circumstances that STATS don't account for, my friend. Like:

    -His role within the team.

    -The balance of the side including his relationship/combination with his fellow teammates.

    -His level of tactical discipline/awareness

    These are ALL important factors in a players performance, that I take into consideration when doing my homework on a individual.


    -If a player has had a good game.

    -How many assists/goals an individual has.

    -How many passes, tackles, interceptions or crosses somebody has put in.

    I can see what I NEED to know, with my own two eyes. Does that make me 'delusional'? ...Perhaps. I suppose it comes down to how you define such a word. But I can assure you that I am not 'pretending' about anything I say regarding the game.

    I AGREE that De Boer has done a IMPRESSIVE job at Ajax, but, lets be honest, the league he has done it in isn't EVEN close to being in the top 5 in europe.

    Europes TOP Leagues: England, Spain Germany, France, Italy, Portugal, Ukraine, Russia, and then ,perhaps, Holland.

    Listen, I think Frank is CLEARLY a talented coach/ manager, but to give a BIG job like Spurs, at this particular point in the clubs development, would be a VASTLY BIGGER RISK than giving it to Pochettino.

    People are OBVIOUSLY being seduced by his name and reputation, rather than his actual credentials, because whilst winning four consecutive titles in the Eredervisie is impressive, we should remember that all of that was done with the most successful club side in Dutch football history.

    How many SERIOUS contenders are their for that league every year? 2, MAYBE 3, at most .

    Wasn't AVB discredited by MANY of you by cleaning up in Portugal, and the EL with Porto? And yet some of you now want Spurs to hire a man who has achieved LESS in his managerial career.

    His record in Europe is also COMMENDABLE to say the least, but that will ultimately count for very little in the cut and thrust of the English game.

    The EPL is a COMPLETELY different League to the Dutch one (and CL, for that matter), and people will do well to consider that!

    The TEMPO, INTENSITY and PHYSICAL nature is INCOMPARABLE between the two leagues, and Frank will no doubt need time to adjust to that.

    Hey, I'm NOT saying that Frank can't adapt relatively quickly, but it is a HUGE gamble at a time when Spurs NEED to minimise THE RISKS it takes with the next appointment, whilst also hiring someone who matches/fits the Tottenham Hotspur traditions.

    Now...put that in your stats machine, and download it!!!;)
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  8. DomTFC Guest

    What can I say maybe I was 'erked' by his demeanour and overall cockyness, mostly his self proclaimed football knowledge expertise, his use of CAPITALS, and yes his choice in manager who is someone I disliked, he happens to like Ramos, I stand by my claims most actions are not random but chosen, but each to their own he enjoys what he does, and I wouldn't be here either if I didn't enjoy talking football, not sure the reason or how I got on here in particular, but anyway Ramos could be a decent human being I wouldn't know, I'm sure neither of us are affected by a bit of back and forth hearty discussion.
  9. DomTFC Guest

    'Your apparent obsession with it is borderline RIDICULOUS!!!'

    Obsession? I merely responded to questions and replies that were directed to me by name.

    'The ONLY people that would mention such an IRRELEVANT feature to my post is somebody who is trying DESPERATELY to discredit me, without having much joy.'

    I have no aims what so ever, maybe I just enjoy voicing my opinion.

    'And YOUR the one who enjoys referring to me as a 'football expert', NOT me!!!'

    Actually I asked you about this and you wen't through an explanation of why you are a football expert so no. Go back and read it for yourself.

    'Now how about you stop clutching at straws and CONSIDER that MAYBE I just liked the picture!!!

    Jeeezzz....Who knew a picture could cause such a stir. lol'

    Does that mean you like old Spanish men? not that there is anything wrong with that, but again that may be relevant Pochettino is a handsome man, but a bit young for you?

    'Now, as bizzare as this might sound, and bear in mind that this is JUST a suggestion, Dominic, but, how about we TRY talking football (and about how much we're ALL looking forward to MP taking over at the Lane)??? :eek:;)[/QUOTE]'

    I am responding to questions, direct comments, if you wanted to talk football you should have asked a football question.
  10. DomTFC Guest

    'Now, as bizzare as this might sound, and bear in mind that this is JUST a suggestion, Dominic, but, how about we TRY talking football (and about how much we're ALL looking forward to MP taking over at the Lane)??? :eek:;)[/QUOTE]'

    There we go, a football question, and yes if its not FDB, or Ancelotti (fat chance), LVG my first choice is gone, so I will support Poch, I can't say I would be 100% on board, I do have serious doubts however I do appreciate some of the qualities he brings, mana management/ style of play, and hopefully some of the Soton talent also.

    Did anyone see the so called snap of Poch and his two sons, going through the gate/metal detector at Hotspur way?, HH (Harry Hotspur), claims o have a source confirming it was indeed taken at said location, however I am still very sceptical.
  11. DomTFC Guest

    But if I want to ANALYSE a players contribution in a match, I simply STUDY his performance using a CLEARLY defined set of criteria to do so.

    Does that criteria include any stats? or numbers? as these are stats again.


    -If a player has had a good game. (Qualitative/ judgement)

    -How many assists/goals an individual has.

    -How many passes, tackles, interceptions or crosses somebody has put in.

    The two latter points are clearly stats, but I do understand your point that 'by the eye test' can tell you whether someone had a good game, stats can be used any way you like to either support or reject your judgments. I'd have to agree with a few of notnat's points.
  12. DomTFC Guest

    notnats, FDB was my favourite after LVG, a point I agree with if it the Dutch league was such a lower level league then shouldn't any manager have repeated this feat of 4 consecutive league titles? for example LVG is a proven winner, with tremendous success, however he never managed such a feat in his time managing in Holland, but FDB is the only one to have achieved this.
    notnats likes this.
  13. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

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    Lol...I'm trying to work out what I have just read there...Lol. But I'm glad you decided to rejoin us.

    Me, I don't discriminate my friend. I like everyone including 'old Spanish men', and even those people who attempt to appear clever, and go by the name of Dom. What can I say, I am a man of the people.:D

    You would not be the first to be 'irked' by me, on here, Dom, and in all likelihood, you probably won't be the last. But, hey, it looks like a cross I will just have to bear.

    I did see the pictures of Pochettino 'at Hotspur Way' with his children, and I hope it is genuine/authentic.

    Look I am NOT against the idea of hiring FDB, and if the Dutchman was to be appointed I would be very excited/interested to see what he could do at WHL.

    But I just feel that at this moment in time, Spurs would be BETTER served going for a manager who has a more rounded idea of what it is he is getting himself into, with regards to the league, the players and the nature/culture of the English game.

    Besides the many reasons I have given for supporting the potential arrival of Poch, I just have a good feeling that is proving difficult to shift away from, with regards to the Argentine being a GREAT fit for Spurs. And when I have a good feeling about something, good things tend to happen.

    If it was the Spurs training ground that MP was at in the that picture, the fact that he was there in casual attire and with his kids would suggest that an agreement has already been reached and that he was merely surveying his new place of work, no???
  14. notnats

    notnats Well-Known Member

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    Cheers Dom, Agree theres nothing wrong with a bit of banter even if it gets a bit heated at times. I think it just shows that we are all passionate about our club.
  15. notnats

    notnats Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic achievement for any manager in any league, a proven winner who wants to take risks and challenge himself at spurs... seriously what are we waiting for. no brainer.
  16. DomTFC Guest

    Ramos you bring up a valid point and not to be disrespectful to the website and I have no idea how difficult moderating this would be, but when I click reply it posts to the very last position (last post) rather than actually replying, less like a discussion, and furthermore there is no edit, so I you think of another point, you simply have to post to the last position again, I had trouble sleeping and did all my posting at once.

    The main reason why I was sceptical about the Poch at Hotspur way photo was why would the Spurs employee in the picture admit to anyone the truth of this?, he would surely be fired, as they know who it was they had it on photo and security tape, and yes I noticed the casual clothes, and his two suns, indicating a very informal meeting indeed, that was the other part that surprised me, and made me question its legitimacy.
  17. Baz Guest

    This is a great article, if not the best I have read in a long time. I've been banging on about MoPo for a while now and all my Spurs mates had doubts. They all claim that FDB is the better pick, but when you compare the two MoPo comes out on top hands down. The biggest seller for me is MoPo's philosophy, in FDB I am fairly sure we would have a similar style to AVB, and we all know how boring that was!!!
    Anyway, great article, can't wait for the season to start now and watch some proper attacking football :) COYS
    Ramos43 likes this.
  18. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

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    Thank you, my friend. I REALLY appreciate those comments. As you can probably tell, I am a BIG Poch fan, and believe this is a GREAT appointment by Levy.

    I have no doubt that De Boer is a talented coach, and would of been the BIGGER NAME, but I just feel that Pochettino ticks all of the boxes, as far as what Spurs need as a club right now (in this stage of our development), and will, ultimately, prove to be the BETTER FIT.

    Can't wait to see the evolution in our playing style, both with and without the ball!

    These are exciting times indeed, my friend...Should be a summer, and a pre-season to savour!!! ;)


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