The inconvenient truth about Hugo Lloris

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Josh Bolton, August 17, 2018.

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  1. Josh Bolton

    Josh Bolton Active Member

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    A win away at Newcastle is no mean feat, and after Tottenham’s hard-earned 2-1 victory Saturday lunchtime all associated with the Club were keen to recognise the performance put in at St James’ Park. A Man of the Match poll posted on the Club’s official Twitter account, welcoming fans to cast their vote, singled out four players for further merit: Eric Dier, Davinson Sánchez, Dele Alli and eventual winner Jan Vertonghen. No arguments there, right?

    More perplexing than attempting to master a Dele Alli celebration was the exclusion of the skipper from this vote. For who put the “hard-earned” into hard-earned win if not Hugo Lloris? Without the captain’s efforts — from stifling Kenedy when the sprightly Brazilian was one-on-one to later palming away a Pérez drive as the home side rallied in the second-half— three points could’ve easily evaporated into one or, dare I say it, none.

    This omission of Lloris is an indicator of the widespread quandary involving the men between the sticks — and it’s an indignity not suffered in solitary by Spurs. However, with a 17-year-old transfer record surpassed twice in one window — courtesy of Alisson Becker and Kepa Arrizabalaga’s movements — it is a problem that is about to be addressed; clubs are finally revising the (monetary and positional) value of a great goalkeeper.

    The pioneering Brian Clough was said to have recognised the significance of a top-class goalkeeper to a trophy-chasing side but, in 1977, he was in the minority. When the Nottingham Forest boss wanted to break the club transfer record to buy Peter Shilton, not everyone saw £250,000 as a smart investment. (It only took 41 years for the Luddites to catch-on, Cloughie!)

    The neglecting of a goalkeeper’s importance is a topic that has troubled Tottenham — or, on a more pertinent level, its fans — for longer than necessary. This under-appreciation though hasn’t presented itself in an inability to acquire a goalkeeper of suitable calibre, but the inability to accept that the (number) one we possess is a true specialist in his department. It’s a reluctance that has only augmented as seasons pass.

    Once considered a world-class performer destined — and deserving of a departure — for sunnier Spanish climes following exceptional showings from 2012-14, Lloris’s critics now claim the player is no longer perpetuating the standard required; the player now a liability costing his Club more points than he earns. Opposing opinions are what make this game an engrossing one, but the latter viewpoint has now reached saturation; to the point where even when the shot-stopper is on top-form his input is unfairly disregarded — the Club’s post-match poll on Saturday being a perfect example of this.

    I know I’m not alone when I assert the inconvenient truth that Hugo Lloris is, at the behest of using a hackneyed term, world-class. Disparagers will hastily point to mistakes made in recent memory: Marcos Alonso’s tame strike at Wembley, the failure to gather Victor Moses’s cross before Morata headed in; and, unforgettably, that glaring error in the World Cup final. But what we can agree on is: world-class goalkeepers do make mistakes. One need only watch David de Gea — the best in the business — mimicry Loris Karius when playing for Spain this summer.

    Back in north London the popular song from the terraces chimes “we don’t care what the other teams say”, but to gauge opposition opinion regarding their own goalkeepers in recent years would provide an education: many fans of the Premier League’s top dogs — United aside — have vocally craved an upgrade in the keeper department; whisper it quietly, but numerous Chelsea fans were happy to see the back of Courtois this summer. And it’s over this period that — apart from de Gea (again!) — Hugo Lloris has proved himself the most consistent goalkeeper in a league that is consistently tough for goalkeepers.

    Aside from ability, maybe the real reason why Lloris is harshly belittled and chastised by some of the home crowd is because of his unassuming personality; some seeing an unnatural, aloof leader not worthy of the armband. But remember, this is a professional who has been deemed the standout choice to lead both his club and country; the latter to great effect this summer. On this subject of leadership, it was in a recent interview that Eric Dier said of his captain: “His style is a quiet style, but silence is sometimes deadly.” If Lloris is able to pick up where he left off last Saturday, the next lot of silence will only be that of his critics.
    Last edited: August 17, 2018
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  2. Tony Guest

    But you don't mention anything about his appalling distribution and his unfailing ability on a regular basis to put his defenders under pressure from the opposing team.
  3. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Lloris great reflex shot stopper probably none better but decision making and distribution is poor and he has zero Goal Presence unlike say a Kasper Schmicael who id like us to sign.
  4. Glint New Member

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    In today's market - £80m? Stick with Hugo.
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  5. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Sorry, but no amount of talking him up can paper over the numerous cracks in Lloris's performances over the past couple of years, and if Liverpool and Chelsea turn out to have spent wisely on their new keepers, his only rival for worst in his position among recent CL contenders will be Cech, who really should have hung up his gloves when he left Chelsea. As others have said, his distribution has always been woeful, and when you add in cataclysmic errors like his WC Final disaster, you have a keeper who doesn't inspire confidence in his own teammates, or fear in opposition forwards. He may not yet be an actual liability, but he's not good enough for a team with pretensions to PL and CL titles (according to Pochettino), but perhaps we'll just have to make do with what we've got - what's that in Latin, anyway?
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  6. Big fran Guest

    Not sure he's in the same bracket as De Gea and neuer at world class level but certainly the next bracket and still a level above Allison and kepa until they prove otherwise in this league. Lloris has become more prone to errors and his distribution gone poor but used to be quite good in comparison to others years gone by. His primary job is to stop goals and there are not too many better still as the WC showing proved. However he needs to mix his game up especially v teams that press well high up ie pool and city. As do the entire bk 4 in honesty as its cost us recently and you need to bypass the midfield and play long on the counter.
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  7. Pickleman1967

    Pickleman1967 Member

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    I agree Lloris is underrated by Spurs fans, yes his distribution is poor but otherwise I am happy to see him between the sticks. Still worth 10-15 points for us every season
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  8. bruski

    bruski Active Member

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    Every keeper will have his pros and cons. I do find his distribution puzzling at times, but I am often equally puzzled by how he makes such magnificent saves. Great professional.
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  9. Josh Bolton

    Josh Bolton Active Member

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    The way I see it with Hugo (rough ideas I cut from the piece):

    Lloris was our best player during the 2012-14 years because his role was primarily being your regular shot-stopping GK — and he proved himself a superstar in that role.

    Poch comes in in 2014 and wants to play a brand of football where it’s imperative for the keeper to play out from the back. (Now some fans criticise Lloris’s “suicidal” passing but it’s what he’s been instructed to do by Poch; the manager would rather his keeper continue to pass out from the back, even if an error has been made, than punt the ball upfield.)

    Due to the change in tactics under Poch, Lloris — a keeper who learned his trade in France with Nice — has to rebuild his entire distribution game from scratch. (This is so hard to do — changing your approach as a goalkeeper — just look at Cech’s “passing” v City this weekend; and apparently Guardiola decided to fase-out Joe Hart after Hart couldn’t execute a touchline kicking drill during City’s pre-season.)

    There are very few goalkeepers in the world who are effortlessly apt with their feet, and even the best ones make mistakes (Neuer); in the Premier League, it’s hardest league in the world to do it. Ederson made a handful of ****-ups this weekend with his passing and it was only down to a blunt Arsenal attack that they didn’t make him pay.

    We’re all in agreement that DDG is the best goalkeeper in the league, but I think even he would come under fire for his passing (and would make mistakes) if he were placed in a team that ceaselessly built play from the back like City/Spurs/Lpool.

    Final point: I can’t disagree more with the statement that Lloris has an “unfailing ability on a regular basis to put his defenders under pressure” or “has zero goal presence”, this couldn’t be further from the truth. If anything, he is the one who inspires his team to play such a high defensive line as he’s so quick coming out of his area. You’ll notice the difference when we attempt to play the same way when Vorm is in goal — he makes his defence so nervy as he’s glued to his line.

    The funny thing is, Lloris always comes under fire from fans — probably more than any other player — yet when we all discuss what transfer business we should do in Jan/the summer, none of us talk about the burning need to buy a new keeper? Odd.
    Last edited: August 17, 2018
  10. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    Here is what I see as Lloris Score Card:

    1. Short distance and 1-on-1 saves - 5
    2. Long distance saves - 4
    3. Dominance in the air - 2
    4. Foot distribution short - 3
    5. Foot distribution long - 2
    6. Hand distribution - 4
    7. Defense management - 5
    8. Sweeping out of 18 yard box - 5
    Last edited: August 17, 2018
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  11. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Josh the problem with goal keeping is there's nowhere to hide when you make mistakes, it almost always ends inconceding a goal or serious heart in mouth moment.
    Lloris has been guilty of blunders more than average recently which has began to magnify this even more so.
    There may not be calls to get him sold in the window because he's not as calamitous as say Gomes and there's worser players that need shifting way beyond Lloris.
    As a leader I think he's meek , some wish to play the lead his country to the WC but it was Pogba rallying the troops with a speech not Lloris and if the game had been tighter his brain fart would have cost them dearly in a once in a lifetime match.
  12. antony Active Member

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    Wow! The boy does divide opinion! Pro's and con's have been mentioned. Overall there are more pro's than con's.

    Feet distribution very average!
    Decision making regards punching when he could catch.
    Again average!
    Occasional (typical Gk trait) erratic "responses" normal!

    Speed of thought off of his line. One of the best!
    Reflex/instinctive shot stopper. One of the best!
    Hand distribution. Above average!
    Overall influence in the dressing room and therefore on the squad, plus his back 3/4. Invaluable!

    The man is class on and off the pitch and that sets a certain standard that as mentioned above is invaluable.
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  13. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    I wouldn't worry to much about how much Lloris is appreciated or not, Poch appreciates him enough for all of us. The loyalty between the two, manager and player is exemplary.

    I agree with the gist of the article, Lloris is underestimated. He chose to stick with our club and some view it as a lack of ambition or the need/want to test oneself at the highest of levels. He's vulnerable from the casual lack of concentration or wrong decision, but this is something that happens to the top keepers every now and then. There are really only about one or two keepers who are the best of the best: De Gea.

    I'll say this though, winning the league title, variation of cups, or even the champions league at a smaller club ei Tottenham/Liverpool/ Porto...will always mean more than winning one with the giants - Madrid, Barca and the likes. I believe in the end, the trust he's put into our club and the manager will payoff!
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  14. Jam Guest

    There really is no argument to be had here..

    - World Cup winning captain
    - Euro Final captain
    - Most capped French goalkeeper
    - Most capped French captain
    - Led best defence in EPL 15/16 and 16/17
    - Exceptional sweeper keeper/shot stopper
    - Exemplary leader.. clubman.. professional

    He had an egregious lapse in concentration in the Final up 3-0 with 20 to play.. contextual and inconsequential.. he also made two of the saves of the tournament.. if not the best.. in leading his country to Quarter-final and Semi-final victories

    If de Gea is better then it is only by splitting hairs

    Considering his standing at the club.. and in the dressing room.. you would not swap Lloris for anyone
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  15. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    True Jam, but he still worries me, and every game in truth - that WC howler is in there somewhere, hopefully he's learnt...…. and de Gea is clearly better for me.....
  16. Jam Guest

    Good to hear from you Baz.. I hope all goes well

    What effect do you think lifting the World Cup will have on Lloris this season? And by proxy his teammates?

    He's not infallible.. who is? but he is the least of our worries I would think
  17. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Most outfield players suffer a relatively slow decline in form, from first choice to fringe to out sometimes taking a couple of years or more, but confidence plays such a big role in the form of a keeper that it can happen far more quickly, as Robinson and Gomes have both shown at Tottenham in recent years. The wreckless rushes out of his area don't seem as common as when Lloris arrived, but the distribution is still lousy, and even though the shot-stopping is still as good as ever, the basic errors have certainly increased markedly; on balance I prefer a solid keeper to a flashy one, but we're apparently beggars rather than choosers these days, so carry on Hugo, but try to be more careful, there's a good chap.
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  18. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Jam, just catching up. That mistake might, just might, make him think twice about some of his distribution errors... He did a few dodgy ones on Saturday, but nothing too severe. Thought we scored three good goals, bring on Manure and Maurinho....
  19. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Well-Known Member

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    "bring on Manure and Maurinho...."

    Awfully sorry to be such a bore Baz, but I'm in perpetual glass-half-full mode and your post re Mourinho fills me with dread. :( They surely can't be as bad again as they were against Brighton. Can they ? Please let them be.
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  20. Cheshuntboy Guest

    I've just noticed my own mistake - 'Wreckless' instead of 'reckless'! Actually, the first spelling is probably better, especially when thinking about some of Hugo's death or glory moments, but I've got to get a proof reader, or a cure for galloping senility.
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