So what is the aim this season then?

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Felon82, July 31, 2015.

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  1. sprs4eva Guest

    Expectations killing the joy before the season starts. I'm looking forward to building on some decent football this season, seeing exciting prospects come through and giving spirited performances.

    Top 4 only a bonus for me, as are winning domestic cups.

    Beating all the teams in the top 6 at some stage this season would be great

    Get through el group stage with a b team hopefully and then go hammer and tongs for glory. Qualifying for cl that way would be glorious and i'd be in dreamland.
  2. The Cockerel

    The Cockerel Member

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    Dear Lord, we haven't kicked a ball in anger yet, the start of the new season is still a week away, but the moaning has already begun. For heaven's sake, the transfer window still has a month to go. Do you guys really think that Poch and co aren't aware of where we need to strengthen and reinforce? Some of us simply seem to have become addicted to being miserable wherever Spurs is concerned. Me, I'm looking forward to the new season, the real start of the Pochettino era. We've pushed out most of the deadwood and hopefully they will all be gone by the start of September. I can't wait to see how our new(ish) young squad shape up. I'm especially interested to see how Wimmer, Alli and Pritchard develop.
    BTW, everyone seems to have assumed that the natural centre back pairing is going to be Alderweireld and Vertonghen, I'm not so sure. The two will probably start at Old Trafford, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a different pairing come, let's say, by January. Unlike most of you, I've never really been sold on Vertonghen. He was brought in as a talented, experienced centre back, a leader at the back. He's shown patches of good form but has never really shown any leadership skills as far as I can see. He's played well when the whole team have played well, but I cannot think of a single instance when he produced top class form when the rest of the team was been struggling. Eric Dier was supposed to have been learning his trade last season but I bet you he didn't learn much Vertonghen or any of the other Calamity Janes around him. I see no reason for Vertonghen to be any different this season and expect Wimmer and/or Dier to improve past him. I'll go so far as to say that we won't achieve any of our hopes for the season if Vertonghen is still our first choice centre back come March / April. I hope he goes on to have the season of his life and proves me wrong, but I truly doubt it. As for Dembele, don't even get me started....
    Mattj78 likes this.
  3. Bazza Guest

    It's not the Levy hating, it's the constant running down of the club. It's pathetic.
    The league doesn't lie, Spurs are 5th because we were the 5th best team in the league inspire of the poor quality from the top paid players at the club and that's one weakness that's been dealt with.
    You have just written about the clubs newest signings in the lowest terms you can get away with. Your clearly scared of United and blaiming Levy (the bloke that put Spurs back in the top six) is frankly nonsense. Setting up a top quality new training facility and then ignoring it's potential is stupid, demanding levy spend more than clubs with more money is even more stupid. Expecting to get every player you want is frankly childish and accusing the club of not trying to cover the weaknesses when you don't know who they are talking to is just ranting for the sake of it.
    Try supporting your club, you might even find you enjoy it.
    The Cockerel likes this.
  4. paulw01 Guest

    similar summer to last year linked to a host of players most of whom ended up signing elsewhere. I am not impressed with the signings and have a sinking feeling that we will be just above relegation. I don't see any, other than Kane and Lloris, real positives. We flatter to deceive and once again seem to be quite content to let the teams around us show more of an effort.
    Felon82 likes this.
  5. Thomas Guest

    I like what you say. Instead of bemoaning before a second of the new season has started or the transfer window has closed, support your club and enjoy the game. They may not be the kind of signing some of us want but give them a chance to prove that they better than the players who have left.
  6. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    Surely we should be concerned that at present, the starting eleven at Old Trafford will be very similar to last seasons eleven. Now, continuity is all well and good but the eleven were mostly average last season.
    So our expectancy is top five or six again.
    The idea that the new stadium will make any kind of difference is totally flawed.
    If we are still finishing 5th and 6th then we will stil not sign any better players. They won't care about a new stadium. What they will want is guaranteed champions league football, silverware, success.
    Tottenham Hotspur are no nearer to offering those things so those that think it will make a massive difference are living in cloud cuckoo land.
    Spurs are average and will continue to be so. Off the pitch however, we remain financially stable.
    Felon82 likes this.
  7. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    We will be threading waters up until new stadium is built and a season or two after. It is unlikely Spurs will get into CL in that period, as spending will be limited. That doesn't mean this window is over and we are up to mediocre season.
    We can win Europa, but Toffies failed miserably last year trying that, while abandoning PL and getting nowhere at the end. Therefore, Spurs must learn from their mistakes. We can win silverware, but only by focusing on one tournament (including Europa), no more, if we want to finish respectfully.
    I believe club is not setting any goals openly simply to avoid getting any expectations with supporters. That is because there is no certainty in achieving given resources available.
    Felon, obviously, calls for totalitarian management methods to be applied at WHL. Under those the goals have to be clearly determined, all necessary recourses made available, results to be reviewed, persons responsible identified and punished should they have failed to accomplish the goals set...
    Sorry, mate. It will not happen. Levy did that in the past and fired quite a few. He learned not to set goals, if he is not going to commit resources.
    Last edited: August 1, 2015
  8. Thomas Guest

    When Chelsea and Man City were bought over, they were not in the CL. These clubs offered the players they sought after cold hard cash. CL football came later. Offer Sterling less than what he gets at Liverpool and see if he's prepared to move to Man City because of CL. Increasing stadium capacity and match day receipts is one way of funding higher wages. However, that by itself does not guarantee CL buy it gives you a better shot at it.
  9. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    It feels like we took a step a forward under Arry and have since taken 3 steps back, this is fine if evidently your coming back bigger and stronger but its almost as if weve decided we shouldn't try weve found our spot in the league 5th/6th and are overly content with it. Coupled with the 1 trophy in 14 almost 15 years and its right that people should question what the actual goals are from the Club as it stands everything other than the team is a 'massive success' but ultimately even the biggest brands are unsustainable with out a good product!
  10. Thomas Guest

    We can all talk about goals without discussing the means we have. You can bring that conversation to the clubs that were relegated and asked they why they didn't have a plan to stay afloat. Some simply didn't have the resources to compete. Two of the teams that were relegated in 2014 have the 18th and 20th wage bill in the premier league. Unless you get a sugar daddy whose willing to pump in a cool 1b like Chelsea, the dynamics of is not going to change substantially.

    For those who felt that we are an average (I understand average to be mid-table, not 5th though) club and cannot attract better players because we don't have CL, silverware to offer, the logical conclusion is that we are get stuck with the same average players last season who will be facing Man U a week later. Why do you even expect to have a different team then? If you beat up the team you support like that, I wonder if it's still worth watching them.

    I definitely want to see Spurs in the Top 4 consistently and playing CL. But that's not going to happen unless you have the resources to support that goal.

    I look forward to the game next week against Man U.

    Holidays over, back to reality.
  11. Thomas Guest

    Optimistic viewpoint

    Bigger stadium, TV and media revenue or sugar daddy → More resources

    More resources → Higher wages → Better players → CL, silverware (no more 5th/6th place) → Better players → PL + CL champions

    Doomsday viewpoint

    No CL, no silverware → No better players → 5th/6th → No CL, no silverware → No better players → 5th/6th
    Mattj78 likes this.
  12. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    You have to be in the champions league in the first place as Arsenal were before they moved. They were in a strong position to offer champions league football. Spurs do not have that. Yes more revenue means higher wages, but if City, United etc can still offer more, ultimately our situation doesn't change.
    That's not pessimism it is just the sad reality of football today.
  13. Thomas Guest

    While we may not be able to compete financially with the likes of Chelsea and Man City who are funded not from their operating cash flows but from multi-billionaires, at least I hope we can compete with the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool. It's all relative. Being able to offer higher wages and CL league football will help you attract better players which will further your cause. It may not necessarily mean you can attract any player you want but we might be able to attract someone like Willian and prevent him from being hijacked by Chelsea at the last hour. After watching the club setback by the financial crisis in the 90's because of the failure to spend within its financial means and being mediocre for a decade, I am frankly happy that it started to find its way again in the last decade.

    I hope the journey continues and hopefully Levy can sort out his thought and get a manager whom he can trust so that the club will not have to transition every so frequently with the every change of the manager.
  14. big fran Guest

    Think the aim has to be top four as always but another top six finish would still represent a decent season. Top four is achievable if we can add one or two to last seasons starting 11. I'd expect at least one to be completed in the next couple of days, from berahino and or yarmolenko.
  15. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Anyone who's noticed my occasional contributions to Spurs debates will know that I react to other people's OTT views - I rarely feel the need to share my opinions without someone having rattled my cage first.
    Thus the idea that the purchase of three players of no interest whatsoever to our supposed PL rivals would in itself 'sort' our perennial defensive failings prompted my use of the 'lowest terms' to describe the trio - what I said was factually correct though, wasn't it?
    Clearly there are many people who credit Daniel Levy with what they regard as Tottenham's resurgence since 2001 - they're the same people who think football began with the PL a decade earlier, and believe that the 1990s (when we only one TWO trophies compared with ENIC's single league cup) represented the club's normal level of attainment - because they don't know what a HUGE club this was before the rot set in with Irving Scholar's mismanagement from 1984. All Levy's 'successes' have been off the pitch and on the balance sheet - one trophy in the last fifteen years is the worst run in my lifetime, and I'm no spring chicken.
    I enjoyed most of Redknapp's time in charge, and there have been some fantastic highlights in my fifty-plus years of following the club, but the last three years have been the worst I can remember - AVB's football was dire, Pochettino's is no better, and I've seen far too many false dawns to get excited by a few kids, let alone the prospect of buying a waster like Berahino - you may not like me, or my opinions, but I'm still Spurs for life, regardless.
    Felon82 likes this.
  16. Thomas Guest

    As a fan who supported Spurs only in the 1980's, apart from knowing the league and cup double successes in the 50's and 60's and our very successful FA cup record, I have no knowledge of the teams during the 50's, 60's and 70's.

    This prompted me to do some research and I was amazed at how inconsistent we were in the league.

    After winning the league in 50 and 51 and finishing runners up in 52, we then carried on to finish 10th, 16th and 18th and no cups in the next couple of years before coming back again in the later half of the decade and winning the league and FA cup again in 60 and 61. Then we start slipping away finishing 6th, 7th, 8th and even 11th and winning an FA cup in between. We won the league cup in 71 and finished 3rd and then started slipping away away finishing 11th, 19th and 22nd (relegated).

    What kind of team and players did we have in those good old days? While we did have success, we had some pretty dark days as well. I wonder how the fans react to this roller coaster ride? Could anyone share so that I can better relate to some of the comments about the current team and crop of players we have? I am curious as to the dynamics of the old era the modern day.

    Are we better of with Levy? Looks like we are 1 FA cup worse off but in terms of league, we are reversing the trend of the decline in the 80's. In terms of football, I didn't enjoy the football in the mid-90's to mid-00's. I started enjoying the football we played again under Martin Jol and Harry Rednapp.

    15 years Pre-Levy
    86 - 90: 7 (average league position)
    91 - 95: 11th, 1 FA cup
    96 - 00: 10.6, 1 League cup

    15 years Post-Levy
    01 - 05: 10.8
    06 - 10: 6.6, 1 League cup
    11 - 15: 5
  17. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    And doesn't this just sum up the Levy Years a rise on average of 5 league places and less trophies than any era.
    Off field success Champions 2001-2015.

    Mattj78 likes this.
  18. Thomas Guest

    It does sum up pre and post Levy for the same period quantitatively. How one interpret the data is subjective. One can degrade one piece of data and elevate another.
  19. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    15 years = 5 places better off what a success story what an era
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  20. Thomas Guest

    I think you are missing the point by a long shot. It's not how successful we have been after Levy but quantifying the impact Levy has on the club. The impact of Levy is to elevate Spurs from a mid-table to a team that finishes in 5th but we have 1 FA cup trophy less. If anyone thinks that 1 FA cup trophy is better than the improvement in the league, that's fine.

    I have never attempted to convince anyone that we have been very successful pre or post Levy. I do not think that Spurs ever had the kind of success teams who dominated their era had. That's my idea of success, just to make sure that it's not mistaken to be ridiculously low.

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