Pochettino's principles could see him quit Spurs

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Josh Bolton, July 19, 2018.

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  1. Cheshuntboy Guest

    I really don't get the Lamela lovefest -as you say, he's dicing with a booking or worse the whole time he's on the pitch, and his attacking contribution has been pitiful, given that we thought we were getting a goal-scoring winger when we signed him - Salah he ain't! I can only suppose that the same sort of people who were pleased by our disgraceful antics when we earned nine bookings (at least three of which should have been reds) at Stamford Bridge in 2016, basically just like a dirty player, a kicker, a diver, a cheat, so long as he's wearing a Spurs shirt. I seem to remember you saying that we're all hypocrites a few articles back, but some of us are worse than others!
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  2. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

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    Whilst I don't necessarily agree with all of the points made in this article, there is no denying that fantastically compelling piece! Well-constructed and carefully considered, it may just be the best blog I ever seen grace this site..other than my own stuff, ofcourse! :cool: Josh, I applaud you...
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  3. Big fran Guest

    Must be a great piece to lure the RAM out of his sabbatical lol.. Been missed.. Kind of :)
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  4. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Ramos my old China good to hear from you.

    If you could spare some time I would love to hear your own take on our current position and what/where you see it heading with regards to player & manager retention in the next few years, player recruitment/investment, when you think Trophies should become a priority etc ?
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  5. Josh Bolton

    Josh Bolton Active Member

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    Wow, Ramos I’m honoured! Good to have you back on here — it’s been too long;)
  6. DangerHereDuce

    DangerHereDuce Member

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    I'm aware the point I'm about to make might be sacrilege to many of the older generations of Spurs fans, the ones who (rightly) guard and pass on our club's tradition for playing football in the very best of ways...I know I've heard plenty of Spurs fans mention being ashamed by the Battle of the Bridge on phone-ins and forums since it happened.

    I'd have to say, I wouldn't be one of them. Having grown up watching Spurs through the 90s and 2000s, I watched that many gutless losses to no-hopers, that many games where Spurs teams aimlessly plodded toward an absolute trashing (most painfully often against the Gooners, although the 5-3 collapse against Man U meant I didn't dare show my face at school for a week afterward:D). There were plenty of neutral pundits at that time talking Spurs having a soft underbelly, of being an easy touch, able to be rattled and got at. Indeed, when the Poch era really got going, the first point many of the same pundits made was the fact that Spurs now had a bit of steel to them, a bit of fight and resilience.

    It would be nice to win things in a 'nice' way, but unfortunately I don't think football is like that. I think it was Roy Keane that said you won't win anything with choirboys, you need a few 'characters', a few devils in the squad, ones who aren't afraid to be kicked because they know they'll be kicking back shortly.

    As for the Bridge battle and that horrible lot, I felt the title was already gone in 2016 (the WBA draw meant it was just a question of time IMO), so I had no problem with the team laying down the marker or losing the rag a little bit.

    So, by all means Spurs lads, do kick Diego Costa, do kick (the exceedingly crass) Cesc Fabregas, do kick the likes of SuperT**t Wilshere, and anyone f**king else that has made it a habit to look down their nose at our beloved club.
    (Sorry, got a bit carried away there, think I'd better pull the boots and go and play the kids on the local green, work out some pent up frustration :D;)).

    Can I also just say, picking up on Big Fran's mention of Richarlison's possible transfer to Everton. I think we all know the transfer market is absolute crackers at the minute, but Richarlison for £50 million? An iffy player in a very average team? Think football is definitely heading for a massive fall if this keeps up.
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  7. Cheshuntboy Guest

    I'm very definitely 'older generation', so I did indeed grow up supporting a club which considered itself to be a cut above the grubby antics of Revie's Leeds or Mee's Arsenal; we all though of Mackay or Knowles as being 'hard but fair', rather than downright dirty. Football has obviously changed out of all recognition since those days, but that hasn't made it any easier for me to accept the presence in Spurs shirts of divers like Bale, Alli and, YES, even Kane, and characters like Lamela, whose fouling seems to me to be a deliberate means of endearing himself to die-hard fans, in the absence of goals or on-the-ball brilliance. If we're no better than anyone else, and don't aspire to be, that's fine, but let's cut out the rubbish about bin-dippers, chavs, blue racists and the rest, because we're all down in the gutter, and none of us are looking at the stars.
  8. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Well-Known Member

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    Cheshunt - a few posts back on another thread I declared that I wasn't at all unhappy with the kicking we gave Chelsea that night, although I did beg forgiveness from all Spurs fans for saying it. I'm still not unhappy about it and won't ever regret what I said then and still think now. My rationale (maybe a bit flimsy for some) being that the Nouveau Riche West London crew, for years, had been sneering and metaphorically pointing at us and, more recently, been putting all manner of abuse up to us: Hazard and his "greatest achievement" line, Ancellotti and his ill-advised and unprofessional jibes and others, including the thuggish Costa, throwing in their tuppence worth. It was totally un-Spurs-like behaviour, disgraceful I know, but what the Hell, they asked for and deserved everything that came their way. How do you like them apples, fellas ?

    I'm a Spurs fan since 1958, have seen and loved most everything since then and in no way condone dirty play, even when I played and coached at my own level I tried at all times to be fair and play the decent game; but if someone slighted me - then I'm your man; or my team - you know how to look after yourselves, boys : So, on this one Spurs-related occasion ONLY, I have no regrets. They asked for it, got it, goodnight. I realise it isn't everyone's chosen response , but it's the way I am and, at this advanced stage, won't change. I guess it's a case of not walking off while the other party sniggered, turning the other cheek doesn't often sit well with me. Not looking for an argument or being offensive but I felt I had to respond. Cheers.
    Last edited: July 21, 2018
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  9. antony Active Member

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    We all know what we need, another Sonny! A wide man capable of cutting inside or stretching the oppositions back line by getting to the by-line and also capable of contributing double figures to our seasons goal tally. For this you have to pay the big-bucks and realise this! 60-70mill. We don't need 3 or 4 of these players but for flip sake Daniel one large investment (Martial/Zaha/Pulisc? at Dortmund) is more than reasonable to expect and in the long run is likely to pay dividends by pushing us towards the next (trophy winning) level.

    Its already been said! DL is more than happy to ask for 50-60m for a right/left-back but bulks at paying the same amount of money for a potential game changer!

    What is it? 18 days before the window closes and at the moment all we seem to be assured of is Grealish!! Getting a bit pissed with this now!
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  10. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Well, you're certainly not being offensive, and you've got me beaten by a few (just a few!) years as a Spurs supporter, so your opinion is probably better-founded than mine, but I think we'll have to agree to differ over the Battle of Stamford Bridge. For you, it was a cry of defiance, but for me it was sheer petulance, a collective throwing of our toys out of the team pram, and I think it did a lot to set the grudging, sneering tone of the past couple of years towards Spurs in general, and Kane in particular, from rival fans and some of the media - Leicester were the nation's heroes, and we made ourselves the pantomime villains. The bottom line for me is that I'd rather lose clean than win dirty, and that's why I can't generate enthusiasm for drugged-up cyclists and doped-up athletes winning medals (and knighthoods) by cheating, any more than I can abuse John Terry or Jack Wiltshire in one breath, and praise Alli or Lamela in the next -I want us to be better than the other lot (and actually winning something as well would be nice too!).
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  11. voiceofreason Active Member

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    I agree with the above with the exception of the Dembele poke- shades of cowardly Mouhrino at Real Madrid !
    I think if we hadn’t shown our mettle in that game we probably wouldn’t have won the Chelsea fixture last season
  12. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Well-Known Member

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    With you on a huge percentage of your feelings Cheshunt - and 100% on cheats in general, be they "ours" or "theirs" but reserve my right to feel aggrieved and retaliate if others cause me (or my kind) to do so. Sounds very aggressive and Outlaw Josey Wales-ish, but I'm really not that sort, believe me. Agree to disagree then on an issue that's really totally subjective and anyway, it's long over. Topic ended I reckon.
  13. Big fran Guest

    We've been losing nicely for too long imo
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  14. DangerHereDuce

    DangerHereDuce Member

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    Cheshunt mate, you've been supporting Spurs longer then I've been alive, so I'll gladly defer to your greater experience, it's always better when cooler heads prevail.
    I would have to respectfully differ though, when you say the Battle of the Bridge started the sneering tone towards Spurs as a club. To me, that started a few years prior to that, around the tie the club started doing well in the Carling Cup (the Jol/Berbatov/ 5-1 Arsenal era). It was around then that we starting regularly beating Arsenal, Chelski, etc. Suddenly, Spurs were a problem for other fans. Granted, we did enjoy a few years as the neutrals favourite under Redknapp, but that promoted a lot of rival fans to say the media is biased towards us, something which continues to this day.

    Like it or loath it, football is an organised fight, it's a physical fight, its a mental fight.
    If you guys will indulge me, I'm a keen amateur footballer, not remotely talented. But what I could offer a team was an ability to organise and cajole others. I've been on plenty of teams where lads were being physically intimidated by bigger, stronger, more talented opponents. One 'friendly' 5 a side in particular, the other team were flat out bullying some lads I knew, hammering them every week, taking the piss and intimidating a few of the slight lads. Not to blow my own trumpet, but a few weeks of me cajoling, organising, supporting and encouraging teammates, and sure enough, we started winning a few games here and there. Only THEN there was a problem and that particular 5 a side got really competitive, got really heated, got salty and I got my first black eye;) .

    So yeah, if anybody wants to roll up, put it up to our lads, call our home "Three Point Lane" and look down their nose at us...well, all I'll say is me and a few of the heads will be in the stands screaming TO DARE IS TO DO MF'ers!!!:mad::D
  15. It interesting to hear everyone is singing from the same hyme when it comes to the subject of lamela or sissoko!! What are they (the coaches) seeing on a daily basis? Even that aurier, wtf was he doing wjen it came to throw ins? When kyle walker left I was hoping walker-peters would've been his ideal replacement he played the first game of last season and that lad played fantastic against the Geordies, so much so he even got the man of the match. He didn't get a look in through the season then!
    I just wonder how many more of the walker-peters's have we got hidden within our youth set up, reserves they would put some more of the players in the 1st team to shame! That what I liked about Sherwood, he knew that paulhino wasn't good enough for the prem, he knew soldado couldn't score so he gave kane, bentaleb, Manson they wore that shirt and knew exactly what our crest meant to us fans!
    I hope they do get rid of Jensen, hes obviously a good player but not a premier league quality unfortunately.
    Haven't got a clue what they thought when we actually called Mike Ashley to sign sissoko!!!!!! £30million wasted on that guy.
    We are looking like we're going to sign grelish, yea he's a good player but we have something similar in our squad the lad name onomah, we have a high prospect player in carter-vickers, marcus Edwards is suppose to have been compared with messi, kazaiah sterling another player with skill and pace, reo griffiths a striker who has pace and been scoring for fun with the under 23's. This is why they have invested heavily on the youth setup so they don't have to spend big on these players I thought that was levy's and poch's plan.
    Im sure if llorente and griffiths had the identical shot/ chance on goal and missed we would probably forgive griffiths than forgive llorente!
    What I'm trying to say is these signings that our club have invested heavily over the last few players have been very disappointing (lorente, sissoko and aurier) I would have rather seen poch given these youngsters a chance to show what they're capable of doing, probably better.
    I really hope they do get rid of these players and in all honesty I would rather see Toby staying with him Jan and Sanchez we have the best defensive team arguably in Europe with a world cup winner in goal. Adding a quality signing on top of our current squad would make us challenge city, utd and l'pool for the league!
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  16. Alexa New Member

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    Its all very well some telling us fans to be patient, but you have to understand that the players also have to be patient, but why should they ?
    If I were Harry, Christian and so on, I would like to win something , if I cant see that happening fairly soon, then when Barca and Real come a calling ??
    Then a flood begins.
    We are not quite there yet, but have a fantastic base, and the new contracts help.
    One or two world class players is all that is needed.
    That too much to ask ?
    West Ham and Liverpool are going at it, and really quite well.
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  17. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    The thought of Pochettino walking on principle ?
    Surely he's partly to blame for the complete lack of will to make things happen?
    It's ok saying things but it's another thing backing them up.
    He has had himself a bumper pay deal and has now taken Wenger's place in the top 6 as being the only manager that has no pressure to win anything.
  18. antony Active Member

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    Getting a bit "peeved" now! I ain't gonna list all the peripheral stuff that has seen us grow in stature but the growth of the stuff on the playing field has been as impressive. That growth needs to now continue. Not by discarding the ethos that has got us where we are today that would be foolish and disruptive, but as we have moved to another level these past 3-4 years then surly our approach has to move also. With the times if you like!

    We all know and have known for the past 2 to 3 seasons what is needed possibly more than anything and that is another Sonny type player. A wide attacking double figure, goal scoring addition who is prepared to take on a full back, get to the by-line and stretch a back 4 or cut inside and strike on goal but unlike Son, who can also play through the middle as a N0:9 when HK ain't up to it for whatever reason or along side as a plan B.

    We are not asking for several multi-million£ acquisitions! We just want to see the club step outside the Enic perimeters once a season now we are CL regulars and show a statement of intent, especially now we have "reviewed" the wage structure and give us a stela signing! It gives the terraces an invaluable boost and increases our chances of silverware and continued growth. Just one stela signing, the likes of a 60-70mill Martial, Zaha, Pulisic? The Yank at Dortmund or any other similar, ready made, first team challenger to seriously give us the belief and results to push us on yet again!

    A 60-70 million£ footballer on £120-130k a week to provide a chance of the above, ain't to much to ask, is it Daniel!!
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  19. Cheshuntboy Guest

    As has been said so often, none of us knows what Pochettino and Levy might have agreed to at the end of last season, but we do know that a lot of rumours were flying about concerning upcoming vacancies at Real Madrid and Chelsea, and we also know that Pochettino ended-up with a massive pay rise. And that's it, so far as facts are concerned.
    How principled Pochettino really is, is anybody's guess - did he quit Southampton on 'principle', or was he already certain of the Spurs job? I don't know, but I think there's a lot of wishful thinking among Spurs fans where our manager's integrity, as well as his ability, are concerned - I think his use of an interpreter for such a long time after he moved to England showed that he's a very canny operator, and if he can play good cop to Levy's bad one (and get eight million a year in the process), he's not going to rock the ENIC boat, at least until the next opportunity for personal advancement comes along.
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  20. antony Active Member

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    A little cynical Cheshunt but I can understand your thinking. I on the other hand have a man crush on Poch for what he has done for us to date and I therefore believe he truly wants to build a legacy in the way Fergi and Wender (first 10-12 years) did. Am I naïve? Possibly, but I can live with it whatever happens over the next season or 2, 5, 7!

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