NLD means Nothing to MP

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Mattj78, September 23, 2015.

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  1. johnnyhrvat Guest

    Not sure why fans are slating the performance. If Flamini's shot had hit the corner flag, as normal, and Harry's effort had gone in, you all would have been saying what an excellent preformance - small margins.
    I would have been more worried however to have seen Fazio patrnering JV - then I would have thought that Poch didn't take the game seriously. Wimmer and Toby for me on Saturday.
  2. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    I will watch Spurs as i have religously since i first saw Gazza n Linker play for us at 8yrs old.
    25 years pal through the rough and very rare smooth. And if i want to question the way we approach competitions after 14/15 years of this ownership that returns/delivers very little i have every right to.
  3. Thomas Guest

    Of curse you have right to your opinion, whatever it may be. Just find it funny you start getting cynical and write-off the season after losing in one cup competition. Being disappointed about results is one thing but if trashing the team is part of the enjoyment, go ahead.
  4. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    I will watch Spurs as i have religously since i first saw Gazza n Linker play for us at 8yrs old.
    25 years pal through the rough and very rare smooth. And if i want to question the way we approach competitions after 14/15 years of this ownership that returns/delivers very little i have every right to.
    Cynical? Write the season off?

    My Question was are we going to have a right go at the EPL, EL, FA Cup now?

    Judging by what ive witnessed over many an Enic year the answer is No.

    That my friend comes from years of experience.

    We now just partake in football comfortable in the fact if we do nothing its ok, theres no bar setting, demanding of success, the players stroll about bemused half the time, the head coach can' t make his mind up what to take seriously, the board don't back the manager to achieve anything its same old same old.

    At least in the 90s we weren't being drip fed how great we are and how much profit we make we may not have been steady eddies like we are now but least we were a Football club, supporting Spurs these days is like studying the FTSE 100, watching the majority of your shares plummet then cashing in on your few Good shares to balance the books at the end of trade.

    Exciting times
    Spurporter likes this.
  5. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    1. The result could be different should Lloris and Verts played instead of Fazio and Vorm. So we could jeopardize Sat tie (that whole world would be watching) for the NLD in the competition Spurs, I am sure, have penciled as unimportant as unattainable. I understand Felon's desire to win everything (I do the same), but Spurs planned differently and acted accordingly, IMHO. Too bad we got Goons in there, might have exit this by losing to someone less hated.
    2. If Harry's scissor shot goes in, no one would blame MP for squad selection.
    3. Spurs played well. It was a loss, but nothing like some of the past.
    4. It's a game, not a war, even if it is NLD. Let's move on. If you still believe it's a war, well, Spurs just lost last battle, it is not over by any means.
    Last edited: September 24, 2015
  6. Mick

    Mick Member

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    Losing to Arsenal is never a pleasent experience but I have to say with exception of Fazio I was happy with the team selected I have seen a few comments about the back 4. Isn't Danny Rose considered good enough anymore. I for one have criticised Walker and wanted to see how Trippier would do. I thought we took a risk playing Harry for 90mins I thought we outplayed Arsenal and to say the manager does not get it is nonsense as far as I am concerned what is the point of a squad if players never get a chance to show if they are up to it.
  7. Thomas Guest

    More cynicism follows. Is Spurs much worse off now compared to when you started following them since the days of Gazza? Were you happy with the 90's to mid 2000'S when we were a mid-table club and sometimes struggling to avoid relegation simply because there were no promises and nothing to look forward to?

    I guess now that we are trying to make ourselves a Top 4 club and have not been able to do so is causing all the problem. Levy is to blame!

    I still watch the football now the same way I did in the 80's. Whether it's more businesslike now doesn't affect the enjoyment of the game. The business funds the football which allows fans like us to enjoy the game. Without the business, you can't fund player acquisition and wage bill.

    The irony is that if you want trophies, you need to expand your business to generate more funds to invest in players. If you can't accept the business aspect, you are saying that you don't want trophies. It's as simple as that.

    The Top 4 are where they are now not because of great leadership, management, etc but because of their financial muscle. You take away the business and see what happens to the football.

    I for one hope the business will expand and become more and more profitable. That's the only way to convince shareholders to invest more in the club. If you are a shareholder, will you invest in a loss making business to keep fans like yourself happy?
  8. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    And isn't this proving the point lets all celebrate ACCOUNTS the real reason we all get into football!

    Lets talk about this realistically-

    Enic milk the cow and return nothing, they announce Profits all the time yet start the season with only 1 recognised proper striker on the books, even up to last season Levy was still buying players the manager didn't want.

    Hiding behind a Stadium build thats 'the game changer' in reality this is 3 years from being built, 3 years at least away to hang on to lloris/Eriksen etc while at best offering them cameos in the Europa last 32 before limping out. We have the move, the return, the settling period, whatever debt Enic decide to saddle us with (even tho all this austerity has been going towards the stadium, plus NFL deal, Sponsorship, naming rights, TV deal, player sales, profit hording last 7/8 years) but you can garantee will be used as a tool to further non invest for at least another 3 years after that.
    In that time 6 years have passed, the established top 4 have continued raking in the CL money and Prizes and further Solidifying their Global brand, factor in Chelsea and Liverpool will be increasing their capacity also and you have the Stark reality, that with out spending big and when i say big I mean HUGE were still not going to attract top Stars over the establishment as we wont gazump their wages or fees which will be the only reason they would come to a side that offers nothing in returns of success on the pitch.

    Answer that why they would come?
    And can you honestly see Levy out bidding/paying the establishment once the stadium is returning a bigger Profit for Enic?

    And before we start getting clever im not talkin about gazumping them now with even less money but i consider league cups, fa cups & even the Europa viable successes for us if we treat them with the due respect they deserve.

    But we don't

    Instead we steadily bob along turning profits for Enic pinning our hopes to a stadium build to further turn more profit for Enic.
    Mattj78 likes this.
  9. Thomas Guest

    Profitability is the REAL reason shareholders get into business. I am not sure why you are asking that question. Would you put millions into a business to lose money so that others can enjoy their hobby? Only when a business makes money can you re-invest (buy players) and grow the business. Profit is the MEANS whereby we fans can enjoy better football and more success on the field, the END.

    Why do you think Chelsea and Liverpool are increasing capacity? Isn't it obvious to keep up and strengthen their position? Would it be silly not to follow likewise and be left further behind?

    Again the fatalistic mentality:
    No tropies, no CL → cannot attract players → no tropies, no CL → cannot attract players

    What do you think the club ought to do then that the club is not doing right? Don't try at all since nothing will work? We are hopeless! If we are hopeless, then what changes are you working for?

    Again I ask you, what is the best period of football you have experienced as a fan? The mediocrity in the 90's to 2000's and it is enjoyable because there were no promises of Top 4 and nothing to look forward to? If that's the case, you are absolutely right to blame Levy for setting this target. He should have just told the fans that there is nothing to look forward to so that they can better enjoy the football.
  10. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Like i said League cups Fa cups& Europa are viable targets for a club of our size n stature but this all seems to be oblivious to you Levyites.

    TBH what huge difference is there between 90s and 2000s?

    90s 1 Fa Cup & 1 Lg cup, 2000s 1 lg cup and a CL appearance.

    Difference being in the 90s we were recovering from Debt, with the evolution of TV money and the sponsorship of the EPL we are in a far better financial position now so shouldnt we be delivering more?

    There is no hope with Enic bleeding us dry. When Chelsea & Liverpool increase what difference will our increased capacity make? Think about it?

    Before you know it 18 years will have passed and Enic will have delivered 1 lg cup in this time with the flawed model they present, then if you factor the settling period i pointed to earlier your looking at 20+ years, all the patience brigade who have backed this 'movement' would you say this has been a great return in this time, especially when still being less likely to out bid or out pay the Established sides?

    To be successful the modern game/world needs hungry investment its as simple as that, we are ran as an accountants buisness model with Glory a miniscule thought.

    And dont get me wrong im not anti the stadium or ignorant to the money it generates but it wont suddenly spring board us over the establishment without it being pumped back in hard, which Enic will not do!
  11. Mick

    Mick Member

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    We should be applauding yhe fact we will have when built probably the best football stadium in the country and that it is being built next to our traditional home. We need every extra penny this will generate along with naming rights etc to achieve what we all desire. Namely a winning team playiny attractive football. The idea that ENIC is investiing £400 millon and are not deperate for the same as us I find ridiculous.
  12. Thomas Guest

    It's funny to think that ENIC will spend a few hundred millions so that we can be saddled with more debt and use that as an excuse not to spend money buying players.

    Is there any reason not too believe that more of the revenue will be spent on player acquisition and wages? The Bale money was invested and in retrospect wasted. $50 m was spend this summer and could have been $75 if we managed to get Berahino. I wouldn't call that stinging. Of course, everyone points out that we have the lowest net spend during the last 5 years. Blame it on Levy for selling Bale at world record transfer fees!
  13. 71yid

    71yid Member

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    I think historically we have been a club who have promised so much but ultimately failed to deliver....wiv the xception of the wonderful team that Arthur Rowe put 2getha and of course the double wiv Bill Nick. However, even wiv a new stadium, i think its time that Daniel Levy moved on....Alan Sugar knew when the game woz up and despite some progress being made, i cant really see us challenging for anything other then a league cup in the foreseable future. I hope im wrong of course fellow Spurs fans.
  14. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    As you pointed out earlier the Enic shareholders are looking at the investment ie spend to gain- look at the scum down the road for a prime example
  15. Thomas Guest

    Would you be that hungry investor? Tell Levy that you are not a blood sucker and expect no returns because you are a fan. I am sure he will gladly take it since there is no accountability.

    There is a big difference for fans who enjoy football. The football during the 90's to 2000's was bad to the extent that some commentators remarked that Stephen Carr our right back was our most creative player. We started playing attractive football again under Martin Jol in the mid-2000's.

    If there's no difference, shouldn't you be equally happy as I presume you were in the past except for the Top 4 target that ENIC set?

    Being free of financial shackles doesn't have the MEANS therefore to dislodge the dominance. What MEANS do you think we have now to dislodge the Top 4? Or is your solution to get someone to pump in a cool billion into the club? If that's the solution you are waiting for, then there's no need to feel disappointed with the club's achievement until this scenario happens.
  16. josh_b

    josh_b Active Member

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    All this talk of money, money money - it isn't endin with me. If you follow the THST on twitter you'll discover that ENIC will increase ticket prices even more for the new stadium. Goodbye atmosphere, goodbye football club, goodbye spurs as we know it - because there is no way our best players will stay unless we win a trophy this year.
    Felon82 and Mattj78 like this.
  17. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou Josh some common sense
  18. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    The difference which was spelled out n which u choose to ignore we were in a genuine transition in the 90s diggin ourselves out of Debt, Enic n Levy have hopped on the PL gravy train with more influence than we couldve possibly had in the 90s yet have delivered less
  19. Thomas Guest

    Apart from money, I was really shocked when I saw Fazio starting against Arsenal given their pace and experimenting with a new centre-back pairing. That I think is too much risk to take.
  20. Thomas Guest

    Relative influence between the clubs in the same era is more relevant than historical relevance. All other clubs have more influence now than in the 90's whether they are saddled with debt or not. I have not ignored this but have asked whether being out of debt means we automatically have the MEANS to be in the Top 4.

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