Matchday discussion

I read all posts and respect all opinions...I don’t necessarily agree with them all but really can’t pick 5 players from United I would take. There are players from other sides we should definitely look to try and bring in but bringing over players who consistently are inconsistent for United wouldn’t help us, especially given the cost and wages they demand. I agree with you, JM did nothing at all tactically or with changes that showed me he is still a coach to be feared or one that can transform our stale squad into anything half decent

 

agree JM selections are stunningly bad at times...... but he looks as shocked on the touchline as we do watching on tele.
some players just can't pass the ball to one of our players.... and/or move off into space! defies belief.
If our best 11 aren't on the pitch we look devoid of ideas

 

100% agree with the goals....Lloris got the blame by some pundits for the first yet Dier stepped out the way when a foot would have cleared. Lloris at fault for the 2nd and Rodin should have done better with the 3rd but both the spare defender and keeper should have helped him a lot more...the communication was terrible.

With the players I agree with all except Vinci...he hasn’t been given any chance to prove himself in the league and should have been on in place of Kane...Lamela was a terrible replacement and added absolutely nothing to our game.

 

After this very poor performance I have one single question... Who has a salary of 17 millions per season... Who ?
After this terrible performance (one more...!) how can he still accept his salary? The players may be bad but who chose them, who is with them 3 to 4 hours a day, who gives them tactical instructions ... who? Mourinho ....!
Who makes horrible choices like starting with Alderweireld on the bench, putting Doherty on the left when he doesn't even have a right foot ...? Who decides to bring in Winks who can do nothing offensively but who is especially dangerous defensively? Who decides to bring in Lamela, who is out of form and missed everything on Monday against a championship team instead of Bale who was the most interesting offensively on Monday night ... Who? Mourinho ...! So once in your life, take responsibility for your mistakes and your outdated 90s style that tires all of us out !

 

So true but the difference is, we pay to watch on with shocked faces, he’s paid £15m a year to make sure we don’t. The plain fact is, of course we have several terrible players (as do Liverpool, Leicester, Chelsea and most other teams) but if we are not playing with 9 at the back we don’t look like not conceding. Going forward, even with 3 up front, we don’t create enough and the players that are selected do not suit the objective (in this case trying to score and leaving Vini, Bale and Moura on the bench). Also, everyone with a set of eyes knows that Aurier always steps forwards before turning to defend...every single time Liverpool played down our right they created yet we still started with that formation/player and the changes that followed defied any kind of logic. Winks who hasn’t played all season really and spent the whole second half passing the ball to them as an example

 

Our best 11 is never on the pitch because the manager won't select them

 

Trust Jose's Spurs to play this Liverpool team into form... a truly fearsome side at the moment with Jordan Henderson in central defence and a 35 year old James Milner in midfield

I caught myself looking forward to this home fixture for a brief moment the other day before realising we'd just be parking the bus in some shape or form. 90 minutes and a whopping three Spurs shots later my fears were confirmed.

I'm going to bypass their first goal... as absolutely sinful as it was... because we did not create remotely enough to win this game. So to reiterate...

Awful management on display here from Jose

- essentially plays 5 at the back at home
- plays 3 CBs but refuses to play Alderweireld... instead plays Davies at CB and Doherty at LWB
- insists on continually starting Bergwijn for his pace and work rate (regardless of the fact that he struggles to pick a pass or finish a goal)
- refuses to play Bale because of the above
- refuses to play Dele because of the above
- brings on Winks at halftime (has there ever been a worse midfielder who's played as many games for Spurs?) when there is absolutely no necessity to do so
- in the process relocates our best CM to AM where he's patently wasted so high up the pitch
- moves our best forward central where he's least effective despite having a perfectly capable centre forward on the bench

The result? one attempt at goal in the second half against a backline of Jordan Henderson and Nathaniel Phillips

Absolute gross mismanagement

 

Can’t believe how few of the regular posters on this site are now coming on with their views..When the poch arguments were going on there were numerous regular fans giving it all Now it seems that there is only a handful who seem to care enough to give their views.I don’t agree with lots that are said but I do credit people with caring enough to give their viewsHas the dross playing style killed off the enthusiasm of members and have they accepted that we are stuck with mediocrity until there is a total overhaul of the ownership

 

overhaul of ownership or overhaul of management or overhaul of squad expectation.

I said a while ago that we could scrap the idea of buying expensive players (who seldom deliver)......in favour of a young squad with a lower immediate expectation
Give a manager a plan with a young squad.....Tanganga, Rodon, Cirkin, Scarlett, Skipp, White, Sessengnon, Clarke. ....topped up with Kane, Son, Hojbjerg, Toby, NDombele....

The problem is no paying fans and a stadium to pay for.....and of course expectation that the club should be top4

 

When a ball is squared inside the 6 yard box and the World Class World Cup Winning French Captain and Eric England International Dier between them protect its path through to Firminho for the tap in you know that it has to be the Managers influence.
When the same Keeper palms a lame shot directly to an unmarked opponent in the box you just know thats the managers fault.
When Rodon takes the sting out of the cross for Mane to tuck home nicely at the far post you just know instructions have been carried out to a Tee.
The work going into these errors on the training ground are reaping the rewards it's all planned.
Could've put Toby in there and he'd of stopped everything of course.
Or we could've pegged back Liverpool with our array of world class talent and never let them out of their half its what most teams do to them.

(Now the sarcasm is out of the way)

Could the team selection of been better?
Imo yes
Would it have changed the result?
Imo probably no
Where did it go wrong?
Awful players not taking responsibility for basics, shambolic in defence, out numbered in the midfield, stranded up top.

Players simply awful & not good enough, poor selection from JM (but there's not a lot more to choose from) the whole squad needs ripping up n starting again.

 

I think your final point/question is a big factor in the apparent apathy - we've seen three teams threaten to become serious contenders since ENIC took over, and each of them has flattered to deceive, the progression from Jol's to Redknapp's to Pochettino's having been undermined by ENIC's failure to invest at crucial times, leaving the fans more disillusioned as each team broke-up in disappointment and (relative) failure. The current side is a rag-bag, with a squad full of proven mediocrities and complacent passengers, and I continue to believe that Mourinho simply didn't realise how bad things were when he took the job. Most footballers, and many managers, see themselves as part of modern celebrity culture, and don't have much grasp of reality, and while I didn't think Mourinho would fall into that category, I'm seriously having my doubts. All I know is that we're a mess, and have been since well before 'The Special one' arrived!

 

Most squads in the EPL (Man City aside) are in similar squad positions to us at the moment with mixed bad squad quality and ageing players. I think you are right in some respects about JM and his understanding of the task (quality of existing squad) when he took the job however most of the world knows our predicament with transfer spending capability and our chairman so I don’t buy that it was a complete surprise.
Even if he was given £200m to spend, I personally don’t believe he has the approach to make us play more attractive and higher quality football or the ability to make any huge improvements to the players we would be keeping (as you can’t replace all 11).
I also disagree with some of the negativity that exists amongst fans about the job that Levy and Enic have done for us and would be very reluctant for a new owner to come in that didn’t have deep Man City type pockets. We are run as a club that has a sustainable future despite the investment in our training complex and stadium, just look at the financial predicament of Barcelona as an example of how desperate things could be thanks to the pandemic. Yes it would be great if we threw £200m a year on players but there will be some clubs that buy their way into a terrible financial situation and might win nothing.
I really think, we have taken a punt on a manager who was great 10 years ago but the game had changed drastically since then and the punt hasn’t worked. I genuinely like JM from what I have see. but really don’t think he has the right skill set for what we need or the premier league in 2021 but the proof will be in the pudding at the end of the very worst season of league quality I can remember.

 

Sorry Felon but the statistics of Thursday's match speak in favor of Mourinho's wanderings in terms of management ... 2 shoot at goal against 12 denotes a desire to let the opponent take the initiative of the game. As is the case on every match for about 15 months ... This forces our defense to hold out for 90 minutes suffering because this system allows permanent attacks ... And during this time, the game advocated by mourinho consists mainly of throwing long balls on our attackers. Ugly and outdated system!
Then, bringing Winks and Lamela back to half-time is a professional misconduct in my eyes! Especially when you have Sissoko, Bale or Vinicius on the bench who has been hired to replace Kane in case of injure... Mourinho is human and he has the right to make mistakes but he also has the duty to face them

 

The statistics show a 49% possession Vs 51% possession , this wasn't a case of us camped in our box.
Overall the the only stand out difference statistically wise was our 5 shots to their 21 and 1-3 scoreline.
The problems all stem from players not good enough to create or take a game to the opposition whilst having the defensive stability of a chocolate fire guard to build from.

 

Sorry Felon but possession stats mean nothing if it’s all based on sideways and backwards and not towards the opponents goal.I agree that our defence is like a leaking sieve so why not attack and take the pressure off them,.How often do the opposition have more shots on goal than us???I know you think that the players are so poor and can’t play to instructions but don’t tell me that they all ignore Mourinos instructions completely.I feel that is hard to judge who is to blame for the dross we are being served up as we do have players not performing any where near at there best but also a dinosaur of a manager who I think has been left behind by modern tactics.West ham are above us but how many of their players would you take?Does a manager not take responsibility for team selection?Why does he insist with Dier who you know will make a mistake every game and why does he persist with Moura and Bergwin who have scored about 3 goals between them.It will be interesting who plays now Kane is out .Will Son rise to the occasion again or go into his shell as I can’t see Vinicius producing the balls that Kane does.Surely Bale must now produce or we should be questioning Levy as to why we signed him in the first place as I believe this was not a Mourino choice.

 

And that's exactly the point I making the players aren't good enough with or without possession, a few of you seem to think we should be taking every game to every opponent and pin them in their own half to protect our shocking defence.
But when the stats show a 50/50 possession with 5 shots it just proves this side even with possession isn't creative or quality enough to do so.

 

So David Moyes is a modern progressive coach then is he???

 

Because what are the alternatives ?
Who's based on performances demanding a start???
Moura for????
Dier for????

Alli Lamela Moura Bergwijn are the same level of useless

Toby is slow and the other alternative is Sanchez but even if you put Toby in (who's our best CB) he has to be partnered with a clown or a kid and supported by 2 clown RBs a boring slow LB or Reg if he's available.

You all seem to be under the illusion we have a brilliant squad of players on the bench that aren't getting a chance or games when they do they do nothing to earn a spot.

If you swap a **** underperforming player for another **** underperforming player you still have a **** underperforming outcome it's bonkers to think otherwise

 

Who chose to start Doherty on the left side of a back 5 (when he clearly can’t kick with his left foot) in a game against a team who had struggled to score in the 10 previous matches (largely because managers of those teams have actually figured out how to counter their only threat). Then decided at half time after a pretty terrible first 45 mins that the best way to replace Kane and get back into the game was to bring on Lamela and Winks? Also thought that giving Bale 12 minutes would allow him to have any kind of impact on the game when we were losing 3-1? What about having a £42m forward yet leaving him on the bench when the player he has been signed to cover goes off injured?

How is it the players fault with 7 at the back including Dier which is an auto handicap in the middle (but the first name on his team sheet every week), we didn’t create anything going forwards?

We will never pin anyone in their own half while we have our current manager because we are set up to have 7 defenders and 3 chasers of the punt which is his way of getting the best out of the players we do have.

If your logic for JM is anything to go by, we really should sell Kane and Son along with everyone at the back then give JM the £200m to sign 3 defenders, a GK (look at what he has done to PG despite how well he has done in the last few years) and a new CF (which would probably be Costa or Mitrovic as a target man).

It is quite incredible the level of excuses being made for basically a Portuguese Sam Allardyce who even if we gave him £500 million would still sign 3 defenders, a DMF and a target man to punt towards.

 

very true but he is getting the best out of a squad which is actually worse than ours by playing to their strengths