Matchday discussion

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by bigfran, September 14, 2018.

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  1. THFC Guest

    Brentford.... on excuses for not reaching the final now
     
  2. THFC Guest

    *no excuses
     
  3. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    At last someone has the bottle to pull Ali on the irritating flicks which have always spoilt his game.Tonight it cost us a goal and his place on the pitch.He was no where the worst player but giving the ball away and leaving us exposed is not on.He has too much talent to need to do these flicks and is the reason he will not be a midfielder at international level.His only position that seems to work is off the striker and he ain’t replacing Kane and Son
     
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  4. Jesper Active Member

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    By comparing his stats with defenders you are kind of proving my point that he could be replaced by a defender.

    I suppose you are right in that Sissoko is a decent defender.
    Hopefully JM will only play Sissoko when it has been decided to surrender the midfield and surrender the possession. If the midfield is to be won and possession is to be won then a decent defensive midfielder is needed.
    Taking the stats for the EPL for the previous season and the season up until now and comparing an actual DM (like Ndidi) with Sissoko and then it might be possible to see what is missing:
    -more blocks
    -double the number of interceptions
    -double the number of successful tackles
    -50% more clearances
    -25% more passes forward
    https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison
    Ndidi did all that in fewer matches played.
     
  5. THFC Guest

    You are absolutely right about a Ndidi as comparison, the same could be said about a few other defensive midfielders in the league. I am not saying he is better than any other teams players, I am saying that he is the best of what we have alongside PEH.

    The reason I made comparisons to defenders is because that is where he spends a lot of time despite not being a defender and that is where he spends a lot of time covering for other players who should be tracking or who are out of position. I did also compare his pass accuracy to the rest of our midfield and it’s better than all and despite the perception that he passes backwards all the time he passes forwards more with a better long ball accuracy than most from that area.

    For me, he gets a lot of stick unfairly because he does spoon a pass or shot every now and then and on occasions his first touch is like a trampoline. Again to my point though, it’s the little mistakes that everyone seems remember not everything else.

    Going back to Aurier, the mistakes he makes are typically not little ones (poor first touch or spooned cross) they are ridiculous turns, back passes or fouls on or in our box usually. He also gets caught so far up field that he can’t get back which means others have to adjust position to cover for him. Just look at Regy when he loses possession in the final 3rd, he is the first one back into position so the left side can keep shape.

    I couldn’t agree more with you that we need better quality than Sissoko (Ndidi is a great example) but couldn’t disagree more with anyone (not just you) who thinks Aurier is any way, shape or form one of the top 6 RB’s in the league. He is probably in the bottom 6 for me at best (although Doherty isn’t much better).

     
  6. Guesty Guest

    I'm not sure Aurier is in the top 6 players that could play RB in our squad...... never mind top 6 in the PL

    Dele....... firstly I don't think he is playing well enough to get into the team. He needs to be solid in what he does.
    But I think JM was a little harsh on him. yes the flick he tried was rubbish......but really the whole team should do better defensively when the ball is at the oppo gk's feet. I think blaming the flick is an escape for the rest of the team.
     
  7. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    I agree that we should have been more defensively aware when Ali lost the ball but these flicks should only be tried if at all in the opponents penalty area.Opposition know he will try it and make an interception available.I think probably Mourino was a bit over the top making it so public but Ali has been losing the ball this way for a couple of years and does not learn,The shame is he is so much better than what he is showing and as some one else mentioned Moura loses the ball nearly every time he gets the ball and still gets picked on a regular basis.I wonder how long the squad will go along with the public criticism before they rebel as we know squads tend to protect their own.Just an aside it looks like Pochetino may be the next PSG manager watch this space
     
  8. Guesty Guest

    maybe if Poch does go to PSG... he will take Deli on loan. and hopefully Winks!

    I said Deli needs to be more solid in what he does. Instead of trying to flick the ball.... he should have just controlled the ball and moved it on to Moura. Simple.
    He had a fair game otherwise which JM would have been fine with. stupid flick fails. JM will only remember that.

    NB...... Poch might want to consider that the PSG manager was sacked after winning 4-0
     
  9. Jesper Active Member

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    As a defender then there are at least two, maybe even four or five players at Spurs who'd perform better than Sissoko.
    As a midfielder then there are at least two, possibly three players at Spurs and then the two out on loan midfielders who might perform better than Sissoko.
    Taken together then that would put Sissoko at best within top 20 for either position in the EPL. So, a useful player to have in specific situations but not more than that.

    The RB who are better than Aurier: TAA, Kyle Walker. There are a few others who may or may not be better but they have better midfielders than Sissoko ahead of them in midfield so it might be difficult to tell if they perform better due to their environment or due to them being better. Claiming that Aurier is among the worst RBs in the league is in my opinion hyperbole.

    If Sissoko were to retire tomorrow then Spurs would not have a weakened starting eleven. If Aurier were to retire tomorrow then Spurs would have difficulty finding a replacement as good as him.
     
  10. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    I believe Pochetino may well go for Ali on loan but more worrying would be that he may also go for his two favourite players Kane and Son.
     
  11. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    PSG is the graveyard for failed 'stars' they won't go to the French version of the SPL
     
  12. THFC Guest

    I thought we were just starting to find some common ground in the middle until you came out with that....name them in our squad please.

    In the EPL at RB there are heaps who would be way better such as TAA, Cancelo, Walker, James, Godfrey, Castagne, Wan Bissaka, Lamptey, Cash & Aina with plenty of others such as KWP who are debatable.

    As for Sissoko, again please name them and don’t include Skipp as although he is doing well on loan, really wouldn’t be better at the moment than Sissoko as he has proved.
    He needs to keep learning and the I fully agree will 100% be better in time but is not better than Sissoko in that position right now. Skipp aside which may or may not be true, I eagerly await the rest of this amazing squad depth you have found that neither JM or Poch have managed to spot as yet

     
  13. THFC Guest

    Very true however they do pay big money for average players and you are pretty much guaranteed to win something so may be attractive for a few of our lot given how poor they have been recently and how close by train they are to London. I can think of 2 x refunds we should be asking for first before they get anyone else though

     
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  14. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Merry Christmas you lot have a great day
     
  15. Guesty Guest

    Yeah merry Christmas all!

    Tomorrow is another day.
    ...... well the 27th is......

    COYS
     
  16. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    Merry Christmas to one and all
     
  17. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    January transfer window nearly here.Any ideas if Jose will want to sign anybody.I think he should unload some and send Fernandes back .Maybe Ali out on loan.It would be nice to get a box to box midfielder who does not break down every other game.We do seem to sign players who are medically not. up to it ie decelso ndombele Lamela.I suspect that there won’t be much quality for sale unless we pay exhorbitant prices.Not sure I trust our scouting as we seem to have missed Grealish Fernandes Maddison amongst others.
     
  18. Jesper Active Member

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    Sure, better defenders than Sissoko: Sanchez, Tanganga, Davies can easily slide into a back three, I'd say Doherty even is capable of tracking runners as well as Sissoko.
    Better midfielders: Lo Celso wins balls, is there to receive passes and to make passes. Winks, wins balls is there to receive passes and to make passes. Dier, might even be better in midfield than Sissoko.
    So yes, if a defender is needed then I'd not play Sissoko. I'd play a defender.
    And the same with a midfielder. If a midfielder is needed then I'd play a midfielder who can receive the ball and pass the ball.

    Btw, yes players learn while they are out on loan so it might be argued that a manager who cancels the loan program hinders player development. Poch cancelled the loan program, is that an indication that he was a good or a bad developer of players?

    If Sissoko offered something attacking-wise then Aurier could be told to sit back more, but Sissoko offers nothing so the choice is either to have Aurier go forward and cover the attacking ineptitude of Sissoko or to have barely any attacking play on the right.

    Sissoko tracks runners - ie he runs around. Not the most difficult skill and easily replaceable. Which teams would put Sissoko in their starting eleven?
     
  19. THFC Guest

    He doesn’t play in yet back 3 or 4, he covers for them which is different altogether? That aside, Sanchez has proved countless times to be a liability, Davies is hit and miss with no pace at all and Doherty should replace Aurier if anyone. We could try Tanganga as a direct replacement for Sissoko, not sure how that would work out though as not sure his positional awareness is good enough yet to cover others.

    As for midfielders, Dier tried it and was terrible and Lo Celso has had a few cracks in that area and was equally ineffective so I think you have answered your own point?

    with regards to loan programs, what does leaving Skipp at Norwich to keep developing have to do with what Poch did? Skipp will be the perfect replacement if he keeps developing as he is currently but bring him back too soon and he could well end up out of the side.

    Starting 11 - France is one and Tottenham is another which given who he is contracted to and his nationality, isnt bad. Take out City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Leicester he would probably start in most other sides....I would prefer to keep him over Henderson though as can’t stand Henderson.

    As I have said, he is not the best CDM in the league, he is not the best in our squad now we have PEH but given we play with 2 of them, he is the best we have available. I would prefer Ndidi, Kante, Rodri, Bissouma or Rice but we don’t have them and each would be in excess of £50m to sign. Given that we really desperately need another CB and RB as well as a replacement for Ndombele or Lo Celso who can actually last 90 mins and thread balls through to the front 3, that wouldn’t be my top priority so out of the squad we have available and thanks to our formation, he has to start IMO.

     
  20. Jesper Active Member

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    For me Sissoko is a squad-player in the EPL, covering for injuries and/or suspensions and he'd be a starter in the Championship. For teams like Stoke would be a perfect fit.

    For me midfielders mostly fall into three categories:
    -ball-winning. I do not see him doing that, the stats indicate that he isn't doing that
    -ball-retention, being the tidy player. I do not see him doing that, the stats indicate that he isn't doing that
    -creating-chances, flair player. I do not see him doing that, the stats indicate that he isn't doing that

    What I do see him doing is:
    -when Spurs are attacking he drops back and plays as a defender
    -when Spurs are defending he drops back and plays as a defender
    -in the transition then he's not the one who won the ball back nor is he the one who quickly changes from defense to attack

    He is still pointing -> He is a risk in the penalty-area that he might be giving away a hand-ball penalty.

    Biggest weaknesses that I see in the Spurs team is the ball-winning and ball-retention in the midfield. Next biggest weakness would be the attacking on the right side.
     

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