Matchday discussion

Sorry to have report another totally unacceptable performance in the first half.I have accepted that Jose’s football is not eye catching but results have covered up the inadequacies of this squad.I am now wondering if this is all we are going to get.Another stupid error from the idiot full back who I thought had improved We are fast becoming Spursy again.I want to see us attack not defend for 90 minutes.We really do need some new faces and new tactics.I have supported Mourino on these pages against the doom mongers but now I am beginning to wonder if he can change.

 

Three matches...
World Cup winning GK spills a shot and the rebound wins a draw for the opposition.
Away match to the reigning champions, one of the best strikers in the EPL misses from yards out & losing on a deflection and a set piece.
One of the dumbers penalties I remember seeing given away. Then an own goal as a result of covering player not jumping or covering so the ball can get played into danger area.

I'd have expected more from the involved players, they are senior experienced internationals.

 

Please tell me how can any one justify that calamity.Not one player on the Tottenham team would get in the Leicester team today.I watch our so called midfield creators and must regret not getting Fernandes when we had the chance.Today we needed hard workers but we get Moura and leave Bergwin on the bench.I know Bergwin missed two good chances against Liverpoolbut he does not get blown off the ball as Moura did which lead to the second goal.If we play like this then Stoke will blow us away .I personally am getting fed up with watching us and now know how the supporters of teams under Pulis felt .We should forget trophy’s because it ain’t gonner happenAs I have already said my faith is weakening and we do need quality replacements

 

I'm sick of watching such highly regarded players as LoCelso & N'Dombele continue to go missing and be outplayed by their counterparts.
We know the rest of the midfield is severely limited but them 2 are supposed to be the big money ballers who have consistently been worse than sub standard.
There's been no link between defence and attack for ages because the midfield is appalling, Hojbjerg is the only 1 with anything about him worth keeping.
They get a free from everyone every week and the manager is blamed, but on a personal level you should want to win the competition with your counterpart , you should want the ball , keep the ball better , create , want to win the battle in the middle.
I see nothing of these qualities in our midfield whatsoever , quite happy watching games and players pass them by.
Absolute horror show from them today, player for player Leicester were hungrier and better quality all over the pitch.

 

Should we not be questioning our scouting because we have bought some duds recently.Ndombele decelso Fernandes Docherty Moura Aurier.Still not 100 percent on Bergwin.the only good buys reguillion and Hojbjerg.Bale also looks like a spentforce or is it todo with system we play.Hate to say it but have enjoyed watching united destroying Leeds in first half playing attacking football they will be above us and have a game in hand.If results in other games go against us we could be ninth or tenth by the new year

 

agree with the players you mention.
Bale...... I think if he is 'fit' we have to play him to get him 'match fit'..... and give him a chance. (he's only on loan so we can bin him if he can't take the PL pace)

I see Modric is being mentioned.

 

I believe the united Leeds game produced 45 shots this is more than we will produce in a season.Althogh Leeds were well beaten they will trouble us big time with their attacking play.Why do other teams even the poorer one pass and move while we pass and stop.It would help if people could pass to the same team especially Dier who is appalling.I want someone in the press to have the balls ask Mourino questions we all want to know the answers to like why do you persevere with Moura why was Ali not on bench why have you loaned out better midfield players than those playing when will Kane start being a striker again.How much longer before all the joy of playing is knocked out of Sonny and he wants away and who could blame him.If city come calling then I think Son and Kane would be temptedWe need to change our style because we have been sussed

 

He rightly says we were slow/sluggish from the start question should be why ? Morinho seems clueless and his team selections are pretty odd as well before last w/end we are thinking things could be different this season but same old Spurs before the Palace game thought if we can get 5/6 points out of these 3 games that would be o.k and we end up with 1 ! and dropping down the league not impressed with his man management either don't what the problem with Ali is, surely unless his attitude is wrong seems very odd to leave him out of the squad as far as the football itself is concerned its like watching paint dry, can just about accept watching that type of f/ball but not when we are losing, thought this Manager would bring about a change in attitude from players but i was wrong.

 

Let’s be clear, that performance is not a great deal different than most other performances this season with the exception of a few stand out games.

It’s very easy to blame our MF players, who were absolutely terrible but you have to look at how we are set up to approach each game as having an impact too. I like JM but cannot stand how defensively we set ourselves, we have better players available than what we are showing at the moment.
To be at home and allow an away team to have double the shots you have is simply indefensible.
There seems to be a notion that if we play well like against Utd, it’s thanks to JM and his tactics but if we are terrible like most weeks, it’s due to the players?
It’s a combination of both...we have a system and manager that put results above performances without getting either when it really matters. We have players that really shouldn’t be in a top 10 side let alone top 4 and a scouting system that has let us down.
It’s not over yet but even if that’s the case we have another few months of awful football to watch in the hope that we we can grind out some results.
If you lose 2-0 or 6-2 you still lose...it’s probably better to take the bigger defeat and have a crack at actually playing rather than limp to a narrow loss and play like we are currently.
Also, I’ve seen people defend comments about Aurier on here including saying things like how much improvement he has made. He is without doubt the worst RB in the league at the moment and just because he has some pace should not be playing. His decision process is one of a Sunday league player and I think he has created more chances for opponents than he has stopped for us.
The usual suspects all let us down again...Dier, Aurier, Moura, Lo Celso and Ndombele (despite a few flashes of quality) and Bale really needs to take up golf more permanently as adds absolutely nothing to us.
Let’s hope we do manage to get Modric and a CB in January and if there is any way possible, a new right back...if not we might as well just pop a training cone in at RB as it will be more effective and less risky.

 

They aren't supposed to add anything. Nothing changed with these lads since the team was winning and seemed to be able to take one any opponent.
What changed? Two words: Harry Kane. He is out of form and the entire team mechanism is broken at the moment. I am not talking about Harry as the striker. I am talking about his successful conversion into #10 playmaker, an Eriksen replacement. That doesn't work as it used to, teams figured his new role out, they do not give him a breathing room. Plus, Harry got into the funk he has been into almost every season regardless of what he does for Spurs. The adjustment is needed, as there is no replacement for him. Levy should have signed Fernandez. Modrich talk is rooted from the same. It could be cheaper to get Eriksen back, but I am not sure if he is the same player we used to have. I think nothing will happen, as Spurs will wait for Kane to get better again.

 

Is anybody else fed up with the after match rubbish that Mourino comes out with.Admit we were rubbish not unlucky and no we were not the best team against Liverpool.Fans want to hear the truth not bluster.I can accept the mind numbing football if we are winning but when we are outplayed and can’t beat Palace who Liverpool spanked by 7 then fans are not stupid.What does he say to the players in private because they don’t appear to me to be enjoying their football,,For to long these players have got away with not performing and only Ali seems to get a good kicking.Why??Sissoko Dier Moura ndombele Decelso Aurier Doherty Bale all need a reminder that they are in a fortunate position and should earn their wages.

 

The problem is we can’t rely on Harry Kane to carry 6 0ther players across the squad. A decent CM will not stop Aurier shoulder barging a player who is running away from goal in the 46th minute or from leaving a huge hole in RB when the other team is attacking. Neither will they make Dier’s attempts a 60 yard passes actually hit a player. Add to that players like Moura who can’t control a moving ball...

If we are setting ourselves up to sit deep and let opponents have the ball and shots then the players that have been picked to play that game cannot continue to lose concentration in key moments or not perform the job they have been put in the team to do and certainly can’t keep turning the ball over to the other team every time we get it.

Players like Lo Celso and Ndombele have the ability to destroy teams but not if we are not playing to their strengths. If the game plan doesn’t suit the player, change the player for someone it does suit. For example, if we need an energetic ball winner...get Skipp back and use him, don’t show horn someone like Lo Celso in.

IMO there is a collective blame with us at the moment....JM for the brand of football he wants to use in order to get results, despite the squad clearly not being able to play the way he wants. The players (some of them at least) for the quality they bring each week and their performance of the job they have been asked to do. A footballer being £100k per week should be able to pass a ball 10 yards to a teammate, follow the instructions given by their coach and challenge an opponent. All of these things are combing to make us the worst team in the league to watch who are usually a few minutes away from a poor result but somehow scraping a win. That is not sustainable as we have found out in the last 2 games and if we are going to lose, it would be better to go out guns blazing.

It will be interesting to see what the opinion on JM will be if we win nothing again and finish outside the top 4. I really hope not as I genuinely like him but no matter what anyone says, I just can’t accept the football style we have is in anyway enjoyable to watch.

 

Disagree with this massively both are half hearted show ponies who go missing and can't keep any form of midfield dominance over anyone.
1 turn or trick/flick doesn't make up for 89 minutes of passive jogging after shadows.

And what even are they anyway? Playmakers that make no plays?
Box to box that don't get up n down?
Combative but don't get involved?
Creative but don't create?
Goal scoring but don't score?

2 massively overhyped expensive and tragically bad players.
And with the merry go round of them plus Sissoko & Winks it's the worst Midfield I've seen since I can remember.
I can forgive quality (Sissoko) as long as at minimum there's effort on display, theres more aggression and want to win from midfielders in a pub team.

 

To be fair a lot of what you are saying is true, what I mean is that in spells, in the right formation/position and with a team that would play to their strengths, they have the ability to change games. In all fairness they do have skill (Ndombele in particular) as they have shown for both their countries and previous teams. The problem is from what we have seen at spurs they only show it for 5 mins or so, each time they play.
I have to agree with attitude, commitment and desire though...hence why as average as his feet may be, I will always love Sissoko and can’t say the same for any of the other MF (PEH excepted)

 

Speaks volumes when this is the case, Sissoko is an awful footballer but for me is undroppable because he is the only player willing to cover the ground and put the graft in.
We'd be even worse if it was left to the expensive show ponies.
Yesterday's complete no show capitulation from these 2 overhyped enigmas was the final straw for me, they're not good enough and aren't willing to do the dirty work.
Their skill level doesn't outweigh or compensate for their overall out put.

 

Rumour has it we are after Modric why not recall Hoddle.Surely the error with Bale would stop us from going for over 30 somethings. Can we not recall Skipp who is in a team top of the championship .Bet Norwich would not swap him for Ndombele or Decelso.The young boy White looks like a player but can’t get in the squad because of people like Moura who can not trap a ball and is blown over by a puff of wind.Most over rated player at Tottenham after one game totally out of character when he scored a hat trick.Paris knew what they were doing when they got rid.

 

After everything I read on this site and after seeing yesterday's game which follows the other 2 in 1 week, I wanted to bring here my point of view on the situation of our beloved club.

The current situation is the result of poor management since José's arrival. This team could have claimed something this season if it had not been in the Europa League with an accumulation of matches that everyone knows year after year! The team wanted to play with 5th place last season and it pays the consequences there on December 21! The team looks tired and uninspired. Apart from a few high-class counterattacks lately, I have no pleasure in seeing her play ..Apart probably from the victories obtained between the match against Everton and that of Liverpool but how many times by 1-0 against teams which are supposed to be less strong and especially who will fight against relegation... ??!! Against teams that intimidate us most of the time and that saddens me. Of course the most important are the 3 points of victory but if you suffer against Liverpool and win, it doesn't matter which way! But we have suffered from the game against all our opponents this season! All except the first 75 minutes against West Ham! Many of us say we are prepared to suffer with this indigestible game if there are any trophies down the road. Something I had gotten used to until this last week which ended miserably against a team that smartly buys their players and is led by a coach who loves football ... Of course I hope we will very quickly resume a rhythm of new wins and that we will win titles this season but I doubt it more and more. Just seeing the team that JM has left on the Manchester side ... tells me that in 2020, only bold and offensive coaches have room in the hearts of supporters! Finally, and for Felon in particular, always wanting to find excuses for José is boring. To say that it is the fault of this or that player and our recruitment is a bad excuse. JM has been leading this team for over a year and has bought several players from Levy anyway. So he knows the group well and has had time to put together a team and play. Today, there is neither! Certainly our midfield is poor in play but especially in effort if we look at what our opponents are able to cut during 95 minutes as races and as duels. If Kane and Son who are tired stay the 95 minutes yesterday when they are not good, why not bring Vinicius in instead of Winks or even Lucas? Why insist with Dier who is bad 90% of the time? Why did you send Skipp to Norwich when he had already been very promising for about 2 seasons and he can sees in all training sessions ? I have learned to appreciate José better since he arrived with us but my patience is slowly but surely disappearing ... COYS !

 

Finding excuses?
Have you watched the farce that is LoCelso N'Dombele Sissoko Winks Moura Lamela Alli Dier Sanchez Davies Doherty Aurrier?
These are awful players 11 of which were Pochettinos boys who were also awful for him a year n a half before he left.
The squad was neglected badly previously left with the back ups being starters and gaping holes where the back ups should be.
What amazing transfer buisness has been done?
JM has at best been afforded a few stop gap players to plug holes of quality that left and hasn't been replaced/upgraded on.
That's just facts it's not excuses.

How come with other managers it was always they need endless time but this 1 is different? He's not even had 1 full season in charge and there are still some bad apples and extremely poor players stock piled in this squad.

The attitude of some of these players is appalling, the application is appalling, the individual errors are appalling, the brain dead passing is appalling, the concentration is appalling, do you genuinely think JM demands that from them?

As I keep asking who do you recommend instead to get better from such a poor collective ?
Who's gonna stop our RBs giving away penalties?
Who's gonna get LoCelso & Lamela fit enough to play 2 successive games and actually be any good?
Or N'Dombele for that matter?
Who's gonna resurrect Allis, Winks & Diers Careers?
Who's gonna teach Sissoko how to play football?
Sanchez etc

There are some truly shocking players in this squad. Even our best CB is over the hill.

Top players don't need to be told to play well, to boss possession, to control games etc because they just do.
Just like Top players don't concede possession, go missing, don't influence a game etc under instruction.

It's absolutely bonkers to think otherwise.

The delusion of how good our players are is staggering we are carried by Son & Kane always have been just 3/4 years ago there was a better supporting cast that's not been replaced adequately or upgraded on.
When that is a fact then you can't expect the same level or better.

So before I get the "it's the managers job to get the best out of the players" who's to say he's not? Where's the proof?

And again who's your alternative to JM?

 

I think signing for Spurs is equivalent to winning the lottery for most of our players, not just the current ones, but nearly all of them since the early 1990s. The ones who REALLY want to succeed are the Carricks, Berbatovs, Modrics and Bales, who move on at the earliest opportunity, while the rest are happy to play for a high profile club where little is expected of them, and where you can become a legend merely for hanging around long enough (King being the prime example, but Lamela being another with adoring fans and an injury record that is beyond a joke). We used to be told that players like Lloris or Alderweireld were coveted by all the big boys, but no one came in for Toby when his contract was running down, and Hugo hasn't been fighting-off suitors - apart from Son and Kane, which of our players would realistically interest Real Madrid or even Chelsea? No, they have the trappings of being top players at a top club without having to prove it on the pitch, and how the complacent and casual ethos which has typified Spurs for decades is ever going to be changed is beyond me (and, sadly, beyond Mourinho on current evidence).

 

It's like a retirement gig/convalescence home for the showed some promise once.
Most not good enough for top 4 but paid better than mid table so can't shift and there's no genuine demand for them to succeed.
Much of the documentary confirmed a lot of what I thought, players strolling around like they're at a weekend spa not a care in the world or any level of serious professionalism, Winks & Alli both sh!t themselves when JM rocked up because they knew their cushy numbers were up.
Numerous team talks of JM telling players the basics of press, win the second ball, pass quicker etc and everytime they'd do the opposite.