Matchday discussion

Exactly what we'd become under Poch or did you miss the whole of 2019?

To blame JM for this is just disingenuous it's mainly Pochettinos flat knackered disjointed side minus it's 2 best players.

 

I know 2019 wasn’t great but it was better than now - also, it wasn’t the whole of 2019 that was poor so you can’t tarnish the season based on a portion of the year.

Look at these quotes (I know you might have a comment on who they are or who they played for but these are people in the game and there are heaps more saying exactly the same thing):

Stan Collymore - “Amazing how some have bought into “Mourinho the winner” without any regard for how he leaves clubs.
“Unbalanced, fractured, overspending, soulless. Everything Spurs tried to avoid.
“Good luck, I like Spurs a lot, but it’s not how this man comes in, it’s how he’ll leave you.”

Paul Merson - “Honestly, you are watching them play, and there was no game plan.” He added: “It was like watching Manchester United at the end of his [Mourinho’s] reign. It was unbelievable. No-one knew what to do.”

Martin Keown - “No conviction, no expression.
“And I think it’s coming from Mourinho, the mind set and the way they set up.

Tony Cascarino. - "Jose offered very little in tactics yesterday. He's been left behind."

Jermaine Jenas - "I think the energy that he is feeding out those press conferences, for me, personally, if I was in that dressing room, I would not enjoy it. It is very much 'I am stuck with this lot' and that is not what you want to hear.
"I think with regards to the system, the system is a big thing, because most managers have a way of playing and they will stick by that for long periods of time, no matter what, and also they can adapt in games. And Jose has done that, don't get me wrong.
"But what I have found in games that I am watching is that he is constantly reacting to the other team. There doesn't seem to be any confidence at all in the game-plan that he has set out. Even when they set it out, it seems to be off and it seems to be wrong."
"The game we watched against Leipzig, I was just shocked by how defensive they were at home for a team, that when I look at it on paper, is no better, even without Harry Kane and Son Heung-min.

 

Son & Kane have persistently been our top 2 scorers by some way the last 4/5 years if you think that makes no difference to the side your crazy , then factor CEs Assist and Goals tally over the previous 4/5 seasons and take that out the side also and your left with Alli as the biggest threat who's returns have steadily got worse.

Some of you are letting a ridiculous hatred for Mourinho cloud your judgement.
The guy is not a miracle worker ffs its actually embarrassing this has to be explained to people.

 

Merson Keown and Cascarino r u kidding me ?????
And even Jenas to an extent.

Poch gets tonked by Bayern 7-2 at home yet JM loses narrowly to an even more dangerous side without his main strikers to give us a punchers chance in the next round n he's getting pelters for being negative?????

Absolutely ridiculous I can't entertain any more of this.

And in the league 2019 we were appalling go back and look at some of the results, the state we're in lays entirely with Pochettino & Levy's negligence over successive seasons.

I'm willing to give Mourinho a chance exactly like Pochettino got when he took over a circus in 6th and had a relatively sh;te 1st season, whereas JM picked up an even bigger circus in 14th (mid season)
Give the guy a chance ffs he needs at least a good summers window with some proper backing to build his own side.

I don't know what some of u have been watching for the last year n a half your delusional if you think we've been playing well we were awful under Pochettino in the league in 2019 horrific in fact.

 

I don’t think you will ever take on board what I’m actually saying

it’s NOT a hatred for JM - it’s a dislike of his style and tactics that are used in each and every game. If he stopped us sitting back and started trying to get us going forward, then I would be fully on board with a lot of the things you have said but he doesn’t.

I get it, Kane and Son are crucial however we have a squad. Kane gets injured every year so really that should be factored in. Parrott, despite being young, is a CF so rather than persist with the rubbish we have been, he should be given a run (no matter what his age is). Again, if JM did that, I would be on board and happy to wait until the summer for signings.

I really don’t need you to explain anything to me as I really think it’s embarrassing that you can’t see the comments for what they are. It’s feedback based on performances.

I also can’t really believe that you actually think we are the only club who have 2 key players missing for a period within the season.

Ancelotti has gone to Everton and look at the impact he has made without signing anyone. That’s a fact, unless you have something on that to point out?

I’ll leave it there because I don’t think we will ever agree on this

 

We are all crying out for some sort of leadership both off and on the pitch. Yes, it does require huge effort and energy to press for 90 minutes and fitness is key with rotation playing its part.
Can anybody out there tell me if the Sheffield manager would be saying week after week that his players are hero’s and that they deserved more ????? Can you tell me of ANY spurs player on the pitch that will grip the game and lead players through a bad patch like a strong captain can, or do they still play Rock Paper Scissors to see who picks up the arm band this week ??
Losing can become acceptable under certain circumstances but not having a plan or not trying is unbelievable. The pain and distress I’m feeling week after week for my beloved Spurs must be shared by you all I know. But just give us a glimmer of hope by having a plan !!!! COYS

 

Wouldn't be a game for parrot to start with for me up against two physical well drilled centre halves who will give little space to operate. I'd be looking at lloris aurier Toby Jan Davies winks dier alli lo celso moura lamela.
Been reading a lot on Jose perceived negative tactics etc on other threads and forums etc and I find it disrespectful tbh. His united tenure was dull for sure but to judge him on that alone is nonsense. Look over his career in particular his first few Chelsea sides battered teams 4,5 and 6 nil. Set all sorts of records. Porto a great side. Real Madrid went toe to toe with one of the greatest footballing sides ever and won the league scoring many goals with creativity.
In certain games he sets up negative ID admit against Chelsea it was awful but nearly worked. V City it did work. Atletico did it v Liverpool. Its called tactics.
Now v Norwich we pushed both full bks forward putting balls in to zero no 9. Played a 4 3 3 with lo celso almost alongside alli who again was awful. Now the perception is we sit back and let Norwich play is the game plan. NO WE DON'T. The reality is teams get at us from the first whistle and put us on the back foot giving the impression of sitting back. Our midfield whichever combination has been picked does not have the quality, legs or desire to win that battle in the key midfield area. They simply ain't good enough lo celso and the injured sissoko apart. Same as when sheff utd home and Brighton away both under poch BTW was exactly the same.
Burnley if we allow them will try to do the same. You watch winks hide today when our back four have the ball. Look how many times the uncomfortable sanchez in possession is forced to play back home to the keeper. The players need to step up today. The manager has a limited hand to play with so they need to show some balls instead of hiding behind the manager as they did with poch by the way. Does anyone really think Jose goes out and says let every single side we play have the ball, don't close them down, don't run, don't press, give the ball away cheaply, move the ball ponderously slow through the lines and lose constant 50/50s come on wake up.

 

There's no point Fran they've made their minds up, JM is useless it's his fault the likes of Aurrier Sanchez Davies Winks aren't now the best in the league and that Alli Moura Lamela aren't bulging the net with double figures each if he played Parrot we'd be playing champagne title challenging football again like in 2019 under the messiah.....

I mean after all he was so good he didn't have to win anything

 

Again, not really what has been said is it?

Parrott for example is to get some starting experience while we are in a slump with no forwards....no mention of him turning us into a top 3 side or transforming our football into champagne style.

 

You're all bemoaning style and tactics, the only solution to it all anyone can offer is to play Parrot.

 

I'd go with that.
NDombele isn't great but he does seem to lift others to play better. He himself is not worth a fraction of what we paid for him

 

I understand what you are saying in your first paragraph, I was thinking give Parrott a chance to get some experience because it can’t hurt us any more than we are having now.

Im then a bit lost with the JM part as it’s not really relevant to this?

That being said, if you have actually read what several of us have actually been saying, it’s that we dont mind JM and really want him to be successful. What we don’t like is the negative deep football and can’t see us turning a corner playing that way.

It’s not important what he has done before because football has changed from when he was winning at Chelsea and you can’t really include Real Madrid in the arguement as they were chalk and cheese financially. If what he has done before is so great, perhaps we should see if we can tempt Kevin Keegan out of retirement

 

couldn’t agree more...he looks about $15 million worth on current contribution however he has glimpses of world class so just need to hope we can get him a bit fitter so he can last a bit longer over the summer

 

I wouldn't want to see Jose go just yet... his press conferences are about the only thing worth watching at Tottenham these days... but the early signs don't look good. The football has been exceptionally hard on the eye and injuries notwithstanding results have not been that impressive.

The issue with Jose's Spurs is indeed tactical and what is becoming apparent is his tactics do not particularly suit these players nor this club. He is a defensive counter-attacking specialist... always has been and always will be. Indeed I seriously doubt he possesses much of a refined attacking philosophy at all (in terms of spacing and movement) for when opponents defend deep... unlike say Guardiola whose plug and play system is evident no matter who he has on the pitch. Jose's original Chelsea and Madrid sides (Inter too) did score a lot of goals... they were also miles ahead of their league opposition in terms of talent. Certainly our squad has fallen off in that regard and we have some issues but there is still quality there. This side made the Champions League final last year after all and is loaded with internationals... and not from Costa Rica... so foolish to suggest our players are on par with the bottom feeders of the league.

Inviting opponents onto you to create space you can attack into is not without merit. Chances on the counter... (2 on 2s/3 on 3s) are often the best chances you can create. Even City... the ultimate possession specialists... will counter quickly under the right circumstances. But to consistently set yourself up to play this way whether it's against Chelsea or Norwich? I'm not sure that is good enough for Spurs and I wouldn't blame anyone for expecting better.

I'd like to see Jose show a little more of these adaptive powers he says he possesses and throw some caution to the wind. I doubt this will happen just as I doubt there will be the time or resources to build a side in his image. We can only hope.

 

It doesn't matter what formation or what team sheet is put out currently it is a bang average side.
People can pretend that it's packed full of talent but the fact is as a team and individually it's a shambles.

I saw on twitter earlier (and agree entirely) someone point out that the spine of the side is the most important thing to a top side

We had a few years back

Lloris Jan Toby Wanyama Dembele CE & Kane

We currently have

Lloris/Gaz Sanchez Dier Skipp Winks LoCelso Moura

And the 1st Spine had an array of actual talent supporting it whilst many were at the top of their game.

It's nowhere near in comparison and that's why you can't expect anywhere near the same in game plan or performance.

 

The wheels had come-off under Pochettino; he no longer showed any enthusiasm for managing Spurs, the results throughout 2019 were relegation level, the performances were abysmal, the press conferences embarrassing, and the hardcore of 'Poch' lovers who seriously think that he'd have somehow turned it round are so far beyond deluded that they're off the scale.
As for Mourinho, I can only think that he'd been suckered like so many pundits and journos into believing that Pochettino had built a solid foundation for success, which just needed tweaking for normal service to be resumed, whereas there was no foundation, just an academy that produced non-entities like Onomah and Amos, a transfer policy that bought over-priced duds like Sanchez and N'dombele, and a team totally lost without a fit and firing Kane to shore it up.
I wouldn't mind betting that Mourinho would walk away like a shot, now that the reality of Spurs' current state is all too clear to him, and I very much doubt that he'll see out his contract (and I wouldn't blame him in the slightest). Coming into our twentieth year of Levy/ENIC and still one league cup to show for it - the 1990s look more golden with every failed 'project' that passes!

 

It's more than two players thou out of 18 we got 4 keepers two of them are likely to throw the ball in their own net and one is about 12 Sess Foyth Lamela (not for the 1st time) Ndombele Sissoko who are also missing more often than not so leaves about 14 players to rotate but hey ho pretty sure not a lot will change in the summer

 

I just saw the line-up. Looks like a 4-3-3 with three hard-working central midfielders.

 

Not a 4-3-3, another 5-2-3 or? GK should be doing better.... Even a fired up Lamela could ignite this team and the confidence looks non-existent.

Comparing Vertongen and Tanganga - speed isn't the most important thing for a wing-back, if it was then Tanganga would be doing better than Vertongen and as far as I can tell he doesn't.

Gedson instead of Tanganga?

 

Well, it was an exciting game. For anyone who was not aware what Spurs were a few seasons ago it was. As of today, we are a midtable team and so are Burnley. The result reflects that equality pretty much.
For Mourinho it was a clearly step forward in terms of tactic. Instead of first hour of dross and 30 min for an attempt to win, it was just the first period of that shite.
What else? No more goaltender errors, please, will ya?
I think it could go only up from were we are at. But I am a well documented optimist here.