Matchday discussion

I think a big part of why managers get fired so frequently nowadays is that these clubs are run by chairmen who are businessmen and do not understand football. They don't know what kind of football they want to play and no conviction about the type of managers they want to hire. When things don't go the way they "envisioned", they just fire them. Then they hire another manager who plays differently and wants different types of players.

These chairman should get a long-term football adviser to advise them on the managers they should recruit. But again they have no conviction about what kind of long-term football advisers they want and they fire them as well.

They just go round & round. You fire your manager only for him to turn out to be a success at the next club!

Is there a better way to run football clubs?

 

Pochettino 'rolled over' Bayern Munich just about as convincingly as Spurs 'rolled over' City and Ajax back in 2019, in other words by sheer luck, but you don't believe in luck, do you? Presumably every result is fair and justified, win, lose or draw. As for Pochettino, I reckon PSG will give him next season to come good - he probably deserves that much leeway, but if he can't be a success there, God knows where he ever will prove worthy of all the hype lavished on him.

 

Oh I believe in luck... and also how it can also desert you at the most inopportune time.

8 straight FA semi defeats would make that apparent don't you think? Then again we were lucky to win it the last time... should have been down to 10 men early.

Football isn't necessarily fair... if my memory serves correct it was you who argued it was?

But history is written by the victors. I see today the papers are gushing that the result yesterday was never in doubt... certainly didn't appear that way for much of the match and PSG were without their best player.

It is true Bayern battered them in Germany... just like they battered Chelsea in the 2012 final to no avail and our chagrin. Paris did hit them twice early though and that can skew a game... the second leg was an even enough affair.

You really should watch our ties against City and Ajax again because they are not comparable... particularly the latter.

Pochettino perhaps unfairly will be on a short leash in Paris... despite a couple of superstars they are not as strong as they used to be. In terms of Europe they certainly don't have the fully loaded deck that you might think.

The best manager of his generation took how many seasons to get the filthy rich Citizens to the Champions League final? So I'm not sure exactly how Pochettino will be judged a success or not at PSG barring the obvious

Whatever eventuates I am sure he has a long career ahead of him at the top if he wishes... good manager... affable fellow... served Spurs well.

 

Funny that Chelsea have powered up the league and are on the brink of reaching the CL final, all since they changed their manager….I suppose it has nothing to do with that as you keep alluding to but it does seemto have a high level of coincidence that under their previous manager, the same bunch of players who according to most seemed to be lacking in confidence and playing really poorly are somehow now one of the most difficult sides to beat in Europe. Nothing to do with Tuchel though…..

 

Well no reason why we shouldn't be challenging next year then ?

After all our squad is up there with the likes of Chelsea n City .....

No excuses for the next guy

 

Quite clearly Tuchel has been working miracles, jumped his failing heavily backed squad from 7th to 4th having taken the reigns from a highly experienced managerial mastermind like Lampard.
And with both hands tied behind his back aswell very difficult job is the Chelsea 1, moneys been tight they were in turmoil when he took over.

 

With a new manager and a "painful rebuild", looks like we'll miss out again. Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea without any additional spending have far superior squads. Don't think we'll have much money to squeeze out in the midst of this pandemic.

Likely to be contending for 5th - 8th even if Kane & Son stays.

 

But you are arguing your own point, not anyone else’s….no one disagrees that the squad needs investment and as per the quote you have replied to, it’s quite clear that as an example, Chelsea spent way more than us over 3 years (not the small amount you referenced originally).

The fact remains though that a decent manager gets improvements from squads (as shown by Tuchel and the climb in league places and 2 x cup finals).

Thing is, it’s relative…based on their spending, they are now playing better football and challenging for honours.

With a better manager, we should be challenging to make top 4 playing better football…not one person on here has said anything different I don’t believe.

It was never really about Poch or JM despite them both being used as reference points. It’s about our performances and achievements and quite clearly, using those as reference points, one over achieved and one didn’t.

 

Lampard was underachieving tho that's why he was sacked Tuchel is doing nothing more than what Chelsea managers are in the main expected to do and are backed to accordingly.
Don't make out he's a wizard.

And don't compare it to Spurs situation it's 2 completely different scenarios.

It's laughable

 

What is laughable is that you can’t see that a change in manager prompted a change in performance and confidence levels in that case.

 

Because the reality is that their squad had 200mil spent on it in the summer, 7 new players to bed in to an already quality squad.
Lampard who had no credentials to even get the job was the fall guy when they didn't immediately hit the ground running (even tho they dominated most games but struggled with the finishing touches while Werner n Havertz warmed to a new league)
Lampard was out of his depth, he got fired because he was underachieving what with the money spent.
Tuchel comes in 5 months after they've settled and things start to click for them.
You have to be seriously naive to think it's some sort of massive turn around it's just what happens when you buy a lot of quality to add to an already stocked team, and they have time to gel.
They have 1 of the top 2 squads in the league and should be challenging no ifs or buts, in England & Europe because they hold a massive advantage over most clubs.
So excuse me if I'm not overly impressed with a Chelsea manager who has everything he needs to be a success (as are almost every single 1 that walk through the door there) it's not really a massive achievement.
Di Matteo won the CL & FA cup for them under similar circumstances and was sacked the following year.
I don't understand this obsession with bigging up a Chelsea manager as if they're working miracles.
That really is laughable

 

What ever the strength of the squad most people accept that Tuchel has improved Chelsea.Buying expensive players does not always make a good team.Credit where it’s due and slagging him off does not improve Mourinos efforts

 

The old joke about: "If that man didn't have bad luck then he wouldn't have any luck at all" comes to mind. Maybe that joke was/is about Pochettino? Apparently he never had a lucky break or lucky wins in his life....

As is then believe in 15-20 years time then Pochettino might be referred to as Mourinho is today. He'll have been fired from most of his jobs, not because he is bad but just because that is what usually happens at clubs at PSG-level, he'll have won some leagues but some will say he did it because he was in charge of the dominant club in that league. He'll have fallen out with some players and other players will say he's the best. The press mightl have fallen out of love with him and there might be accusations of him being a dinosaur with outdated tactics and outdated training-methods.
Maybe he'll even evoke such strong passions that he'll also have haters stalking (sorry, following) him from club to club.

 

Probably not Once the secret of succcess comes out then everybody will be doing it and it won't be what differentiates between success and failure any more.
Some clubs with advisors do well, others do badly. Key is getting the right advisors and then listening to them.

In some respects then Levy might be similar to many successful people - they believe that their success in one area guarantess success in other areas. Some (probably few) realise their limitations and adapt, others (stubbornly) persevere.

I wouldn't be surprised if Levy thought, like some do here, that a manager can always make a team better than the sum of its parts. Reality is slightly more complicated. A team consisting of only flair-players will never be better than the sum of its parts. Get the right parts and then a good manager can make the team better than its parts.
As an example: If Harry Kane could be cloned and 11 of him would be on the pitch then that would be a team of 11 great players but that team would still not win much.

Maybe Levy will find the right people to deal with the football-side of things, if he does then Spurs will sooner or later have success.

 

Who's slagging him off ?
Lampard was sacked for under achieving (that means they were worse than the squad and money invested in it should be)
Tuchel is now getting them to where they should be based on squad and money invested.
Is that improvement above and beyond?
Or just a competent manager

 

Like I say the next manager at Spurs by some of your reckoning will take this squad which half need to be sold then with the spending levels of Brighton improve this side to a cert top 4 team playing dominant attacking champagne football.

Reality is gonna hit hard at some point

 

Missing my point that Mr. Levy don't know what kind of manager he wants and what kind of advisor he needs because he doesn't have any conviction

A team of 11 Kane even if it's only 80% sum of its parts would win the EPL and UCL.

 

What planet are you living on?

Spending levels of Brighton?

We spend 80 million more a season on wages than they do

Even just on transfer fees alone we've net spent 100 million more the last two seasons

I can't imagine reality will be visiting you anytime soon... you seem to enjoy living in a fantasy land

 

Yep, I totally missed your point

Anyway, looking at some other London clubs and the way it appear they do things:

Chelsea:
Manager gets told: Here is the current squad, the amount you have for transfers is this. Go win things, if you don't then you'll need to find another job.

Arsenal:
Manager gets told: Here is the current squad. We'll buy you some players for you, don't worry they'll be good players just play them. Go win things.

Spurs:
Manager gets told: Here is the current squad, all good guys & we especially like these guys. If you need players let us know and we'll talk it over and see what we can do, also, we might surprise you by bringing in a player you didn't ask for and if that happens just find a way to set up the team to play him. If there is anything then you and/or the players know where to find me, okay?

I honestly do not know if any above has any resemblance to what is actually done at the clubs. I do believe that Spurs might have done well in doing what Arsenal did in improving revenues from their stadium and I also believe that on the football side of things then maybe something can be learned from Chelsea.

 

You're 100% correct THFC... Felon82 is just taking the piss

Tuchel has noticeably improved a young squad... two Champions League finals in a row is hardly par for the course either