Manager, squad, owners

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Jesper, November 2, 2021.

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  1. Jesper Active Member

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    Checking back in to see what has changed at this forum. Not much.

    Ideally all the discussions about the quality of the squad, the quality of the manager, the quality of the chairman might be done here in this thread but not much hope of that happening :)
    The match-thread is likely to be the one and only thread posted in and in that thread I'd hope there'd be discussions about matches but I don't think that it is likely to be that way, I'd expect it to continue to be as it has been for years - declarations about how bad Levy is, how bad the squad is etc etc etc

    Anyway, I'd say that the situation today has a lot to do with what happened years ago, most notably that Paul Mitchell left. A year after he left then the quality of the recruitment nose-dived. The trio of Levy/Poch/Hitchens did not cover themselves in glory in their recruitment.
    The poor recuitment led to Spurs dropping off, Poch burning out and being sacked.

    The lesson learned from that appears to have been to reduce the involvment/control of and by the manager in the managing of the squad and the recruitment. Recruitment did not improve much and Mourinho was sacked. Not quite sure what happened behind the scenes, something bad must have happened as it was easily predicted that sacking Mourinho the way it was done would make it more difficult to find a replacement.

    The lesson learned appears to have been to finally replace Mitchell, the replacement Paratici. The recruitment worked ok for a year after Mitchell left so I'd say it is safe to say that there is a delay in improvement/disimprovement. Too early to tell if Paratici is good or not.

    Nuno came in. He had success when playing a back three and wing-backs. In his last year for Wolves he changed into playing a back four and results and performances dropped off. His replacement went back to the system that worked for Wolves and Wolves are now doing better. But for some reason Nuno didn't want to play in the system he had done well in both implementing as well as coaching. Instead he went with a back four even though the squad might be better suited to his old favourite formation.
    In the end he used the formation loved by the fans who hated Mourinhos tactics, the 4231. It is almost by definition a low block counter-attacking formation. Still the people who claimed Mourinho used outdated tactics want to use his tactics. Doesn't make sense to me.
    Nuno didn't go back to doing what he did well and was sacked as what he was doing was not working.

    Conte appears to favour the back three. The squad looks like it can be played with a back three, hopefully the 4231 formation is not to be seen again. I am not a fan of changing of formation this far into the season but as the current set-up is working so poorly then I'd say that there is nothing lost by trying something else.

    Interesting times now, hopefully there will be more direction :)
  2. voiceofreason Active Member

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    Good idea to keep the threads separate. PReed asked why so little people post, just look at the other thread, as soon as people start posting it deteriorates into name calling ..“Village idiot”, “pretentious idiot” etc
    Looking forward to seeing how Conte does, 3 at the back could be good although be interesting to get peoples thoughts on who those 3 are, I presume Romero in the middle but then who either side?
    Wonder what was agreed for the January window, my guess, or maybe hope, is that Kane is sold and the beginning of a rebuild is started. I think he has become too much of a focal point for everyone, so unless Conte can make the team less reliant on him he should probably go
    Certainly feel more positive having him than Nuno, not Nuno’s fault and he was on a hiding to nothing being 5th pick and already sacked from his last club that aren’t a big club anyway .
    Let’s hope for a new manager bounce!
  3. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    Dier/Rondon -left
    Selection depends on impression at training and first games.
  4. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    I'm happy to treat people as respectfully as they treat me, the person in question seems to want to be rude to everyone.

    As for Conte a good manager is only part of the recipe for success but you need to have players capable of their levels and a squad deep enough to cope something that we are lacking in massively.

    The 18 month contract raises an eye brow for me and what's actually gonna be invested/given to Conte else this is just yet another false dawn because major surgery is needed which won't be cheap.

    If I hear mumbling about a talented group and trying to get Dilly Dally n Winks etc back into the fold then it's over before it's begun.

    We have a pretty favourable fixture list coming up and with managerial bounce we'd better capitalise.
  5. THFC Guest

    Why does it matter which thread people comment in? The discussions about manager, tactics, squad usually follow on from a performance on match day. If people are not discussing that when performances are so bad, the match day thread will have nothing in it.
    What is the expectation ‘great back pass from Skipp to Lloris’ or ‘unlucky with the long ball by Dier’.
    In order to gain participation, who cares where the discussion is as long as there is discussion happening…

    It doesn’t help with comments about how nothing has changed or same old conversations etc. It’s common knowledge that some on here are very negative towards our previous managers, levy, Enic and our squad and some feel the squad could or should be doing better or that the manager should be doing more. In either scenario, isn’t that the whole point? Some people take humour or sarcasm far to personally, some can be blunt or rude but again, really, it’s no worse than the banter that we have every day with mates about our team and theirs.

    I think it’s time that the discussion is celebrated in whichever thread it appears, some people stop being quite so precious about what is said and take it for what it actually is and every now and then admit we are all wrong on this topic at points.

    So, the first test….Conte will have us playing better than Nuno with the exact same squad thanks to his coaching, management and tactics….I’ll be happy to admit I’m wrong if after Christmas we still haven’t had a shot on target but hope that if right, the same old player haters actually admit that the coach selection has contributed to our performances for the last couple of years.

    Also, just on the coach, it seems Conte has made a couple of demands including up to 6 new faces. If that is true, at least we have a coach with the balls to make that demand to ensure he can be successful because the last 2 haven’t. The 18 month contact will be his way of getting out if we don’t deliver on our promises to him so fair play IMO.

  6. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    Let’s hope the rumours about the six is true .About time we had someone with some*****
  7. Guesty Guest

    I did day we could only muster a 5 a-side an additional 6 would be very useful

    I still think we have too many poor players. They weren't good enough under JM (who, like Conte, is somewhat firey) I don't see how enough of them can improve.

    Doherty, Dier, Sanchez, Davies, NDombele, Winks, Alli, Gergwijn & Moura out first.....
    Lo Celso & Sessegnon as well if they can't improve

    Romero & Royal I'm still not completely sure about but happy to give them time
    Kane if be still can't be bothered.

    The problem...... DL......
    MP wanted big changes. JM wanted big changes. Nuno wanted a couple (at least) that DL didn't buy........
    Lets see if Conte can open the purse.....
    Felon82 likes this.
  8. Jesper Active Member

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    There are two schools of thought when it comes to forums:

    1. Make it easy for readers to follow topics and discussions they are interested in and thereby also make it easier to comment. People new to such forums can easily get into things
    2. Make it easy for commenters and keep all comments in one thread

    There are people at this forum who want to discuss the matches:
    -the match-day squad, who should be in it
    -the starting eleven, who should be in it
    -how the starting eleven should be set up
    -pivotal moments in the matches

    The people who do not want to read discussions about matches can easily avoid those discussions by not reading the match-thread.
    Currently there are tendencies that instead of not reading discussions about matches some believe it to be ok to stop anyone else from discussing matches.

    The people who wishes to discuss squad-quality can easily have their discussion in this thread and the ones interested in that topic can easily follow the discussion and if they so wish also contribute to the discussion.

    There'll of course be overlap between the topics but shouting down any and all discussions in the match-thread about matches by using the argument that the squad is bad seems counter-productive.
  9. Jose's Ghost Guest

    Well said THFC

    Always amuses me to see those who think they can come onto a public forum and throw up invective with impunity... whether that be relentlessly going on about Sissoko week in week out as if he has some disability... despite being capped 70 odd times for the greatest footballing nation of his generation... or mercilessly shovelling **** on the winningest Spurs manager in 120 years long after he's left the club

    Yet when you apply their own blowtorch upon them they immediately go weak at the knees and quickly disappear... or start crying about good manners... or their need for a safe space echo chamber where they can hear their own silly thoughts reverberate in peace

    It's quite pathetic to witness but very amusing nevertheless

    Of course it's all banter... we all want the club to succeed... always happy to share a pint with any Spurs fan no matter how obnoxious they may appear
  10. Jesper Active Member

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    Many things can be said about the current squad, as is then I am very curious about how Conte will want to play. The preferred formation(s) might be crucial to see before deciding on what to do with the squad.

    If Conte goes with a back three then he might possibly be switching between a 352 and a 343 depending on opposition and circumstances. There are a couple of players in the Spurs squad who looks like they might not be able to play in their preferred position as that position might not exist in those formations.

    One such example might be Bergwijn. Bought as an attacking wide left player. If that is his current preferred/best position then he might only get to play if Spurs play a 343 formation and Son isn't available for the left attacking position. Possibly that is not enough and if so then either sell him or retrain him for a different role/position. Maybe left wing back.

    There are a couple of players who did not perform well for manager A, manager B, manager C and is now playing for their fourth manager at Spurs. It is unlikely but possible that they'll perform well under Conte. Some of them might need to re-invent themselves. Conte has had success in helping at least a few players re-inventing themselves. Maybe he can do the same at Spurs.

    I think Conte will have some idea of what the players at Spurs are about, however, I'd expect him to give them the chance to prove themselves in training and possibly in some matches.

    I am not quite sure which position needs to be bought for first.
    Possibly wingbacks as Sessegnon is often injured and Doherty might not be good enough to cover for Royal. Maybe Doherty is better than what we've seen, I think he has mostly played RB so maybe he'll be better in a RWB.
    Kane used to be a great striker, this season he has not been that and it would be nice to have someone who is willing and able to bully opposition CBs - especially when chasing a match and the opposition is defending deep.
  11. THFC Guest

    Anyone still insisting that the Man Utd squad is way better than ours?
  12. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    I do which proves what a differences a good manager makes
  13. Jose's Ghost Guest

    Let's be honest... it is superior... by how much we'll know at the end of the year

    United have the most expensive squad on earth (or 2nd most depending who you listen to)... they also have a manager completely out of his depth... at least for the next day or so anyway... personally I'd be happy for him to remain there

    I think this discussion began early doors last year... and you were right... we had a better squad at the time... then United signed Cavani (still a top forward) and our jank manager refused to play Bale and some of our other best players as he drove us into the ground with his woeful football

    Since then United have signed Sancho... Varane... and Ronaldo

    So yeah no contest really in the talent stakes these days
  14. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    They thumped us 0-3
  15. Guesty Guest

    I read that DL wants Celtic to pay £10m for Carter-Vickers

    …….and so begins Conte’s pain of selling before buying!
  16. THFC Guest

    For anyone that is in any doubt about the difference a manager/coach makes, have a read of this as it’s got some really interesting points about the improvements that have been made with Conte (and a note on the level JM was at when we had him)
  17. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    Admit it Felon because I have that Conte has improved some of the players wherever we finish.I still believe we have weaknesses and I think he knows that and will unload a few if he stays.We need Newcastle to do business as long as we don’t revert and lose to Burnley.I believe Levy will only lob out the money if we are in the champions league
  18. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Please tell me who he's improved?

    Lloris- No
    Dier- No
    Sanchez- No
    Davies- No
    Rodon- No
    Tanganga- No
    Reguillion- No
    Winks- No
    Moura- No
    Bergwijn- No

    Hojbjerg was decent before he started getting the blame for the midfield woes so again thats- No
    Sess & Royal- Meh
    Oh & Doherty had 3 decent games- Yes

    Son & Kane are n have been good for everyone.

    Romero Bentancur & Kulu have made the biggest difference to this team.
    New players like I've said from the start.
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
  19. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    And before anyone starts talking about Dier & Davies being improved were currently 5 goals short of conceding the same amount of goals as last season & that's with the added quality of Romero.
  20. THFC Guest

    Oh dear…first we have one of the worst squads in the league, then there’s only 2 decent sides in the league, now the squad have shown no improvement under Conte (despite being guaranteed of 5th, on the cusp of 4th and weirdly still a very tiny possibility of 3rd as unlikely as it is). Conceding less, winning more, performing way better and yet you are still so negative it’s really quite confusing.

    As for improvements….Doherty, Emerson, Davies, Dier and Sanchez are all far more reliable when called upon than they were earlier this season. PEH has improved both positionally and with the ball IMO and the additions of Bentancur and Kulu are huge improvements in their respective positions which are thanks to the managers system and standing (which is why and how they were signed). Kaned form and positioning has improved from earlier in the season and his attitude and confidence are also linked to the change in coach. When Conte arrived we had a goal difference of -9…we now have a better goal difference than the team occupying 4th currently.

    It’s time you start considering following another team if you can’t get behind what we have done this season. The position we are in now is beyond our wildest expectations given how we started with Nuno and Conte had nothing at all to prove he is without any doubt the best coach to take us forward next season.


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