It can't go on ......

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Felon82, November 11, 2019.

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  1. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    You watch almost every other side in the prem (the better quality sides especially) they all have pacey wide players that push right up and wide to the touchline , all have the ability to take on and beat a full back , all work well with their own full back at going forward overlaps 1/2s crossing and getting into positive dangerous areas.

    There is absolutely none of this at Spurs absolutely none , there are only 2 players in the entire squad that can effectively take on a full back and beat them Son/Moura , 1 barely ever plays and the other has been a 1 man attacking threat for a while but has little to no supply or support. (Even his goal v Sheff Utd was an assist from their player).

    For years we've heard from the Poch fc fan club how wing play is dead no one plays it anymore but I suggest you watch the rest of the Prem especially the better sides they all work to get the ball out quickly stretch defences and get the ball into dangerous areas where God forbid they may give the opposition something to worry about and a striker something to attack......

    The reason we are so flat and have been for so long is the lack of width and pace to our play.
    FBs Davies paceless, Rose has pace but is Lazy and extremely wasteful, Aurier not exceptionally fast but has no talent or reading of the game whatsoever, KWP a complete non entity, Foyth more in the mould of a Corluka than a wing back and is not a modern day RB imo, then there's Sess who's still an unknown quantity.

    Wide attacking mids Alli the flick hop star paceless can't take on and beat a man, Coco the clown 5 touches 3 step overs tread on the ball come inside pass it sideways, CE paceless, LoCelso paceless, Moura doesn't play and Son finally as said previously a 1 man attack.

    Having such a stagnant paceless forward line is it then any wonder why our disjointed talentless error prone CM/defence can't find a forward pass ?

    Opposing sides don't have to defend deep or stretched , FBs can push on , CBs double up on Kane , Son the only movement. It's almost like we encourage the press.

    I can't be the only one that is watching this car crash for the last year and thinking where's the movement or want to do something remotely positive?

    Is Kane injured/exhausted I think maybe a bit the latter but I'd also say disillusionment has crept in which is understandable for anyone that's played up front when the service just isn't there.

    The entire front 4 look lethargic & incohessive they don't stretch defences, they don't press as a pack , there is very little evidence of positive movement or willingness to beat a man it's awful.

    So we have 6 players trapped in our own 3rd stroking the ball around like it's some sort of training exersise getting pressed each with a suicidal pass or brain fart in them and then a marooned front 4 cut off from the exciting all action end having caught a dose of the moody glum look from Pochettino wondering why the game has passed them by yet again.

    I'd love a Poch fc fan to come on here and tell me different that that's not an accurate description of what we've 'built' ahead of schedule.

    The basic fundamentals completely lacking from the side, only 1 man is orchestrating this utterly miserable clueless style of play and that's Pochettino and the longer it's allowed to fester the quicker the bottom end of the table is approaching.

    There's no sane argument for him staying, he ignored the FB situation, hes stuck with Lamela, he's mismanaged Alli & Moura, he's allowed Levy to upset CE Toby Jan and not only that he's personally mucked them all around, he's put too much faith in Winks who's just not good enough, he bought a dud for big money in Sissoko whos only accolade really is athleticism, hes only ever had 1 effective tactic, he shoe horns underperformers in and now that it's beyond repair he just throws players on wherever, in game Management is non existent, subs are mostly ineffective, he's got little to no proper depth on the bench despite having had £437million to play with and a team made up of mainly inherited players.

    The jig is up

    He has to go.
     
  2. Cheshuntboy Guest

    On every measure, from trophies to quality of football, Pochettino has clearly failed, but there are STILL people defending him, usually on the strength of the apparent highlights of the past five seasons, as if beating Real Madrid in 2017 will somehow help us make top four this season. If it wasn't for the cost of paying him off, I've no doubt Levy would already have wielded the axe, but it looks as if we're trapped in the current nightmare for some time yet - serious risk of relegation would compel Levy to act, but I really can't see things getting quite that bad (can they?), so welcome to 'mid-table mediocrity', the place Pochettino supposedly rescued us from back in 2014.
     
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  3. Thomas Member

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    After reading this article, it makes me miss the counter-attacking style we had under Rednapp. Back then, we have the fastest right back and winger combination in Lennon and Walker and we have Bale maraulding down the left flank. Our counter-attack was such a delight and we had in Bale and Lennon players who could take on the defence and beat their men.

    Now the only person with real pace and willing to get past the opponent is Son. Moura's the only other player in that mould. Unfortunately he's only brought on for cameo appearance for Poch to show that he's doing something to change the game.

    What's worse, our slow build up and possession game often meant that the opposition will get back in numbers and render such players less effective. Teams that are direct often are more dangerous and create more chances. We are simply easy to deal with. They let us have all the possession we want and we can't even fashion a shot on target.

    Should replace Alli with Moura and start playing more direct.
     
  4. palmover Active Member

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    Mp's lack of appreciation of wide attacking players and the effect they have on football matches is beyond a joke moura comes as a proven wide attacker and Mp tries to convert him into a striker. Spurs need a coach who will do the simple thing's, i have always found Mp to be too complicated.

    Mp has in 5 years nearly taken Spurs to glory there have been so many opportunities and he flunks it when it matters most.

    Spurs not so nearly fail to beat Lester to title.
    Spurs nearly win league coming 2nd to the chavs and nearly get to cup final losing to the chavs in the semi's.
    Spurs nearly get to the final again losing to an average Man.u team in the semi.
    Spurs nearly get to a L/cup final losing to the chavs in the semi and nearly win the champs league losing in the final to pool.

    Mp has had so many chances to win something, however, he just doesn't have what it takes to do that at spurs. If he gets an easy gig Bayern, juve he may win something, however, i don't think he will anything with spurs. Time to go.
     
  5. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    When we lose to West Ham on the weekend , if Everton only need a draw and Villa can beat Newcastle at home - all very plausible results then we could be 17th on Goal Diff with a 3rd of the season played.
    And let's be fair if it weren't for the flukey draws at City n Scum , a hand ball goal allowed v Watford and an offside dissalowed robbery for Sheff Utd we'd already be there such is the appalling standard of our football and effort.
    Genuinely the way we are playing I wouldn't rule it out, as I keep saying we are the worst side to watch in the Premier League currently just effort alone will cause us problems.
     
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  6. guesty Guest

    never mind about worst side to watch......
    our manager is the worst to listen to. (with Emery a close second)

    complete overhaul needed. too many players simply waiting for someone else to do it for them.
    no hunger from defence and midfield to work as a team and all take the game by the scruff of the neck.

    to say Sheff utd deserved to win the game at our home....shows how bad things are.
    that is taking nothing at all away from Sheff Utd...who absolutely deserved to win.......but that should not be the case....any game....any day...on our pitch
    you can talk about wingers and wide play and formations all day long.....but if the players aren't capable to show some grit and determination for the shirt they are wearing.....we have no chance.

    I've always read that top players want to play CL football........well it seems its true and no other competition matters
     
  7. bruski

    bruski Active Member

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    I've finally come to the conclusion that it's all been smoke and mirrors with Poch. What with his 'philosophy' psychobabble and his pigeon English (better than my Argentinian granted), in the early days he sounded like a professor of elite football. Now I'm realising it's all a load of bollocks! Listen to the greats (Fergie, Shanks et al), and of late Klopp and Guardiola, and they talk straight. None of this 'we must be calm and focoosed'. No! I want Poch raging like the aforementioned coaches, marauding the touchline and lambasting anyone who should not be doing their job. Poch sits on his arse talking to D'Agostino whilst playing something on the ipad looking totally devoid of the job at hand!! We could talk forever about his lack of tactical awareness, piss poor substitutes, no plan B... ever, for any match, and so on.
    I just don't understand how he can be supported by fans on the many Facebook sites etc.
    Honestly, I couldn't offer an alternative coach's name because I guess all the best are spoken for, and what elite manager would want to come to spurs with a tight arsed chairman screwing every drop of blood, sweat and tears from his staff and giving next to nothing in return?
    I'm not sure Levy will sack him because that would cost a fortune, and as we know he doesn't even want to give the club his nose droppings let alone any hard cash. So, here we are. What next?
     
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  8. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    Must agree with all the above comments and nice to know that it’s not just me that can’t stomach pochs after match twaddle,The only worse after match rubbish comes from the Gooners and You need a translator to have a Clue what he is saying.I watched most games at the weekend and even the championship sides seem to have more pace and desire than us.My biggest gripe with poch and levy is that they had the chance to get Tielemans and Maddison before LEICESTER and look at them now.Which tells me that neither of them are a good judge of players which is extremely worrying if poch is still here in January and is given money to spend.We are likely to end up with more dross like Nkoudou Lorentz etcetera.I do wonder what pochs staff do as they sit next to him and never seem to say a word.Most managers have vocal side kick on the line to help and give opinions like Chelsea do with their assistant coach.I would like to know what poch says to the players behind closed doors does he really tell them they played well as he tells the media or does he rollock them as he should or is this why they don’t seem to be aware of the impending relegation threat.The saying that we are to good to go down has been done to death.Ask Sunderland fans
     
  9. Dan Guest

    Agree with Preed. And we desperately need a Dir. of Football going forward. I don't want the coach or Chairman identifying transfer targets. We are completely devoid of any collective playing style or identity because we have players whose attributes do not suit the style of play that most of us want to see, i.e., high-intensity, pressing football played at pace. If we want to play slow buildup/high possession football, get rid of the speedy players but find players who can string passes together. If we want to "have pacey wide players that push right up and wide to the touchline," then find young TAA/Andy Robertson-type players who are fast, clinical in their passing, and capable of making crosses into the box. Son/Sessegnon/Lo Celso/Ndombele should be retained. Moura/Lamela/Alli/Kane should be evaluated to see if they have any future at the club. All the other players need to seriously up their games or find other clubs to play for. I really want to empathize with Poch for the constraints he has operated under but at this point he has shown himself incapable of addressing the shortcomings in his managerial skillset. The excuses & mental weakness are tiresome. I actually wanted Sheff Utd to win the game because they played with heart and determination whereas we were poor.
     
  10. Flawless Guest

    I've had enough of this.

    I don't care that our formidable defensive partnership of Toby and Jan came to an abrupt end.
    I don't care that creative heart of our team wants to join a better club.
    I don't care that we don't have pacy players as Poch's style is to build from the back and I don't want to wait until Sessegnon, Lo Celso & Ndombele are 100% fit. I want Spurs to play fast free-flowing football right now.

    It's a shame that fans like P reed, who watch so much football and have deep understanding of tactics, strategy man-management and business do not want to get the job and lead this great club to glory.
    It's a shame that we are destined to witness Poch's Project 2.0

    West Ham 0-4 Spurs - otherwise I kill my cat. COYS!
     
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  11. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    You got to be consistent in your accusations. In one post you state that Poch doesn't have a tactic suitable for his players, now you envy those clubs who have an ability to buy top performers , so the tactic the most difficult to execute, and the one that you personally like, would be played every game. We do not have personnel to play like that. You can change the coach every month and it will not produce players that are strong upstairs. Only one -Harry Kane- would represents a danger for any experienced defender. We need to call our defenders up to the opposition penalty box in order to win the aerial ball off a corner. Winning the ball and hitting the target is not the same. To hit the target and to score is also huge difference. The opposition defenders do not have to be as precise. All they need to do is just to win the aerial ball and bunt it away. So Poch plays predominantly through center, but at times crosses are coming, as you would like , but there is no one to win and score out there. That is why Poch wanted to keep Llorente, who is old and pace-less, but is useful in the air. We also do not have those who could properly spin the cross. We used to, but that ability attracted other clubs. We sold them recently, simply because we could not sell any other. Trippier put up crosses for Atletico, Walker for City. We didn't sell Dier who was very good, but he lost the form and cannot run, so he is covering for CB that leaves the club in the summer.. We have gotten only Son left. So opposition double the coverage for Kane and feel good about playing Spurs. The players we bought in the last summer are not good in the air, they're addressing different need. We need to call up Parrott, who is the only hope, as well as, Dele who used to head it well, so we need him back.
     
    Last edited: November 12, 2019
  12. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    Hope your cat has 9 lives flawless it mind need them.Its a shame that you have to get personal because I have an opinion backed by many on this website. I don’t pretend to know all the answers but I do recognise when something is falling apart
     
  13. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    I agree, there is a lots of wrong with Spurs. We are stuck with Poch, however. My point is that it is not THAT bad. You need to change the team, not its coach. In the summer, once Guardiola leaves City, the clubs will line up for Poch signature. Aren't they all ran by the best football pros? If Poch leaves, he will be running one of the Manchester teams. Levy will NEVER replace a coach like that.
     
  14. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    Spurporter I did play in my youth at top amateur level and still don’t have a clue what you are talking about.What has heading the ball to do with spurs current appalling form.and don’t kid yourself that man city would take pochetino.Rumour has it that levy is looking at the Leipzig manager to replace pochetino .If only it was true.you say replace the team not the manager but surely it was this manager who formed the team so why would he do better next time
     
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  15. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Spurporter good wing play doesn't just mean beat the man and put big crosses in to the big man , yes that's an option but as I said watch other top teams Salah Mané Sterling etc they attack full backs down the flanks they're not putting big crosses in they're creating chaos though.
    Once you've beat a full back you've got options and you've got the defence scrambling , whip a low cross , chip to back post , cut it back for an oncoming AM or drive towards the near post even draw fouls etc.
    It's not the only way but it's much more effective than letting a defence set itself up (when we make it out of our own half that is) then trying to slow pass our way through a well drilled 2 banks of 4 with no movement or quick thought of positive pass.
    You have to have variation to your attack you have to be quick and you have to stretch defences if you want to create chances and be successful, at any level of football but even more so professional.
    Our style currently (at it's most potent) is akin to Zombies walking into a door coz no one has the brain power to turn the handle.
     
  16. Genevaspurs Guest

    Just have a look on the left/right back at Liverpool... No energy savings in their game. They bring speed, energy and cross that bring danger within 16 meters. We have Rose who has energy but who does not know how to make a goal assist. We have Davies who can not do anything but defend. We have KWP who does not play anymore. We have Aurier who knows how to make cross every other game but who does not know how to defend and who is a risk with every presence in our 16 meters ... Foyth has not yet had enough opportunities to show us his talent on the right wing... These players are our side and their presences are the decisions of Daniel Levy AND Maurizio Pocchettino! No one else ...
     
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  17. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    I agree with all of that, but, again, Spurs do not have players who can leave a fullback on the ground. I said it many times before that players able to beat the opposition one-on-one are at premium. They cost a fortune to buy, and, as such, they are out of Spurs price range. The only way to have such a players is to steal them with great scouting before anyone else sniff them, like we were lucky with Dele, or to develop them from the academy. Spurs lost good scouts to the clubs that pay better. We lost best players to the clubs that pay better. Now the suggestion here is to rid of the only good part that left - the coach- so he could go to the club that pays better. Salah, Mane, Sterling are the best players in the world, they making by far more than Poch, who is the highest at Spurs. Money makes champions, although not always. Spurs AT BEST are alsoruns. Top 4 is the only trophy of value we can get. We did get it for 4 seasons. We were the best in London for some time. We will develop Foyth and Sessegnon into Robertson and TAA eventually, whether they will become anything close to those remains to be seen. Do you think Poch is no good for that?
     
    Last edited: November 12, 2019
  18. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Sissoko and Sanchez cost basically the same as Salah and Mane-
    Sané 37 mil

    Come on

    This premium cost poverty pleading is nonsense , it's dilly dallying from Levy and zero interest or strategy from Poch.
     
    Last edited: November 12, 2019
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  19. Flawless Guest

    LOL! Very true.
    For my liking AVB, Pochettino and Guardiola are very similar in their philosophy and approach. They heavily rely on individual brilliance to get results. Guardiola is just blessed with unlimited resources to buy talent.

    Poch's only got Kane & Son. Alli and Sanchez will get better. Special players like Toby, Verts, Eriksen, Lloris, Rose have bleak future.
    Ndombele & Lo Celso are very promising signings who are likely to improve Spurs a lot.
    Big question marks about defence and surely Levy will refuse to pay over the odds in January.
     
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  20. Pickleman1967

    Pickleman1967 Member

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    It pains me to say it but I agree with the sentiment of the OP, though I wouldn't have framed it in such savage terms. There clearly has been a change in the relationship between the coach and the players, and the coach and the club. It looks like the end of an era, even with my ever optimistic Tottenham outlook I can't envisage Poch turning this around. I thought the team selection looked pretty good on Saturday, and yet we still managed to look lethargic and lacking in creativity when the game kicked off.
    There is a lack of hunger and commitment in player attitude (with the notable exception of Son who appears to be giving it his all still). Even with the decline in form of Eriksen, Deli, Verts, and Rose there is enough talent in the squad to get results if the players work hard and give the opposition no room to do their thing. But what I see is too many of our players jogging around, not getting back with urgency when needed, not trying to be first to the ball. That is a coaching issue, pure and simple, and it harks back to what I said about the change in relationship between the coach and the players. Previously Tottenham were noted for their hard work, always featuring highly in the "most miles run" stats for the PL. I cant find similar stats for this season but my eyes tell me the players aren't working nearly as hard as they used to. Not for the first time the opposition appeared to "want it" more than Spurs on Saturday and that is hard to take. There appears to be a complacency that one of our talented attacking players will get a goal from somewhere, with a bit of individual skill. The work ethic has gone, and Poch should be spitting feathers, instead he comes out with a load of waffle and excuses for a poor performance these days.
    So the forecast is for more mediocrity, scrapping points and the occasional lucky win (I also fear some hidings this season, playing like we are) until the end of the season. I don't think we'll be in a relegation battle, we will probably end 10th or 11th, cos we have attacking players who can score goals at the drop of a hat, and that counts for a lot in any league. Poch will almost certainly get the sack in the summer, so it will be time to rebuild again. Sad, because there have been some good times under the man, even though we didn't win anything. However, no point in being sentimental about it, football is a hard business, managers get sacked. It doesn't mean Spurs will go into freefall, Chelsea change the manager every season and still manage to win honours FFS. For Spurs though, I would like to see some ambition to get a top manager (not Mourinho, that little weasel is a busted flush). WHL is a big old stadium these days, a brilliant arena to watch a game of football. We need to be ambitious about the manager and players who appear there wearing a Tottenham badge on a Saturday afternoon. COYS.
     

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