Irrational hatred and nonsensical bar setting

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Felon82, December 29, 2020.

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  1. THFC Guest

    I know he is wealthy but to put it another way, he has short arms...he has not and probably never will, throw money like the owners at the bridge or Etihad

  2. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    Hence the reason Levy is like he is .He is under orders to make money
  3. THFC Guest

    You are absolutely right but hence why I say when you have Utd and Liverpool money and fan base, Chelsea and City’s owners, regular membership of the top 4 and decent runs in the CL are actually pretty decent achievements

  4. Jesper Active Member

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    I am old enough to remember the times before the internet and the binary opinions that seems to have appeared with it. To THFC, you probably also already know it so it is not against you but I'll use parts of your posts now:

    Absence of unconditional (possibly even blind) love is not the same as hatred.
    Absence of hatred is not the same as blind love/loyalty.

    The day Poch was sacked was a sad one, as far as I know nobody celebrated. If there were those who celebrated then yes, they must truly have hated him.
    Mourinho will not be at Spurs forever, there are people who say they will celebrate the day Mourinho is no longer manager. Those people must truly hate him.

    I believe it was right to sack Poch. But for him and for the club.
    I believe Mourinho was and is a good choice to come in and manage Spurs.

    Pochettino said that a rebuild was needed. I agree with that.
    Pochettino said that it would be painful. Some, possibly even many, performances under Pochettino during his last year were painful. Some performances under Mourinho have been painful. So for me his predictions came true.

    I wish that Spurs were not in a painful rebuild, I wish that Spurs players were better. My wishes changes nothing. What I can do is look for positives, others appear to try to get through the darker days by huddling together and finding togetherness in complaining. To each their own.

    A bit philosophical :) My apologies, onwards to the next matches. For me then I've seen positive signs and while I do not expect great performances and easy wins I do believe there is hope for wins and more attractive football.
    Felon82 likes this.
  5. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    This is absolutely spot on !
  6. THFC Guest

    French Super Cup and 4-1 away win in the CL at Barcelona isn’t a bad start to life in France for him

  7. Cheshuntboy Guest

    My attitude to Pochettino developed from irritation into dislike over several seasons, and was no doubt influenced by the unquestioning adoration that he seemed to get from so many fans blind to his obvious flaws. From his self-regard (a quality he obviously shares with Mourinho) to his favouritism, he doesn't seem to me to have the true professionalism of the really top managers, and while I'd certainly deny 'hating' him, I was pleased to see him go, and I don't believe we'd have a point or a place more than today if he'd stayed.
    As for Mourinho, I think he's a far cleverer, more complex person than his predecessor, but that doesn't mean he'll be able to salvage anything from the shambles of Spurs today. Whatever his haters say, Mourinho inherited a spent, ageing squad in a very much worse state than the one which awaited Pochettino in 2014, and has faced problems completely different to anything he encountered at his previous clubs - it's really no surprise that it doesn't seem to be working, and I'll be amazed if Spurs don't become his first trophyless club, and then his detractors can really celebrate.
    Felon82 likes this.
  8. Jesper Active Member

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    Couldn't agree more. The unquestioning adoration by some fans makes me like Poch less.

    Going through what was inherited by the two managers could be done, maybe it should be done. I'd see only one outcome.
    One squad was younger and had lower wages -> fringe could be sold to finance new signings, the other squad was older and had higher wages -> can't even give some players away. & yes, that is implied criticism about the importance of touted net-spend. How many players that Spurs were sold and missed which negatively affected the team? One?
    One senior striker in the team vs four senior strikers in the team. One had a world-class CB with leadership ability the other has not.
    One had a good CM/DM partnership with rotation capabilities, one had not. Dembele/Sandro would in my opinion beat Ndombele/Sissoko based on that while Ndombele is better than Dembele I'd consider Sandro and even Capoe much better than Sissoko.
    One team had two very good playmakers, one team had one uninterested playmaker plus an injured playmaker.
    One team had a goal scoring midfielder, the other did not. Yes, that is me saying that Chadli performed better in 2015 than Alli did in 2019.
    One had a GK in his prime and expected to perform for at least 5-7 years, posssibly longer, the other had a GK where succession planning needs to start.

    Spurs would not have been in the CL-final without Lloriente. He did not get a new contract.
    An injured Trippier kept KWP out of the team, Trippier was sold and KWP came in. Those outgoings happened after Poch said that a rebuild was needed. After that two midfielders were bought and a young player for the future was bought. Did those transactions complete the rebuild? I'd say no it was a beginning of the rebuild.

    The squad that was inherited in 2019 was unbalanced, aging, had unsettled players and morale looked to be very low. The style of play was boring, the CL-run was lucky and based on hoof-ball to the big guy. Youth-development has been negatively affected by the cancellation of the loan-program.
    The manager who assembled the squad (Poch) said a big overhaul was needed, Poch supporters disagree with his opinion. Opinions wary, since I consider Sissoko to be a bad footballer and Poch supporters claim Sissoko is a good footballer maybe part of the reason for the difference of opinion of whether or not the 2019 inherited squad was good or bad lies there.

    Poch seems to be happy in his new role. He has moved on. Happy for him but I don't miss him.
    voiceofreason and Felon82 like this.
  9. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Excellent post, which surely knocks the absurd idea that Spurs had a stronger squad in 2019 than in 2014 well and truly on the head. However, I see some fool on another thread continuing to push the argument that Lloris, Vertonghen, Rose and just about every player in both squads actually improved over the five years, and that Pochettino bravely chopped-out deadwood like Soldado, whereas he actually reinstated the Spanish dud as main striker ahead of Kane (who'd been given his chance by Sherwood, NOT Pochettino), and only returned to Kane when Soldado's failings were clearly irredeemable, three months into the season. Giving Lamela a contract extension, signing his mate's son Gazzaniga instead of Pau Lopez, and recruiting such stars as N'Jie and N'Koudou are further examples of Pochettino's acumen - I just can't understand why he had to go!
    Felon82 likes this.
  10. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Think the difference in what was inherited was a squad full of potential and a squad that had completely ran it's course.

    It's been incredibly poor squad management/replenishment/neglect over a number of years that has caused most the troubles we have now.

    The painful rebuild is only in its infancy yet some can't handle that, they prefer to pretend nothing had gone wrong at all we only ever played thrilling football and it's the mean new managers fault we're not now.
  11. Time to debunk another wack theory

    There was nothing lucky or undeserved about Spurs appearance in the Champions League final. That is just nonsense peddled by those who’d rather diminish the previous manager than give credit where credit is due

    By all means you can call it miraculous given the incredible endings to both the quarter and semi-finals. You can call it unique since it is the best we have ever done in Europe in our 138 year history. But lucky? A fluke? No not at all... it was well deserved and truth be told we should have won it all.

    Lucky was a poor Chelsea side winning the 2012 Champions League (and subsequently excluding us from the competition the following year) despite getting absolutely battered from pillar to post in both the semis and final. There was an element of embarrassment about them after winning that. Lucky were Juventus beating us in 2018 despite us giving them a good spanking in London and outplaying them in Turin.

    The fact is the only time we were properly under the cosh in the knockout stages was the second leg against City and that was after we had matched their far superior side to win the first leg... something the detractors never fail to omit. Much like they neglect that we qualified from the group of death. Obviously we were well behind Ajax at one stage but we were a better side than them as was proven in the end.

    You can only laugh at the conflicting narratives... whenever we get done at the death we’re just typical Spursy bottlers but when the roles are reversed and we pull it out of the fire we’re just arsey as hell

    No the run to the Champions League final was the logical culmination of Pochettino’s time at Spurs. It had been the main objective since he began leading us to the competition on a regular basis and winning the league had become out of touch. In true Pochettino fashion he did very well but fell just short.

    In hindsight he should have resigned afterwards as he was suggesting he would if we’d won. Pochettino had run his race at Spurs and was clearly done.
  12. Jesper Active Member

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    Merely disagreeing isn't debunking. Or did I just debunk the entirety of your post by disagreeing with it?
    Felon82 likes this.
  13. Cheshuntboy Guest

    You're trying to argue using common sense and intelligence, neither of which work with this character. I've given up, but good luck if you insist on battling with invincible ignorance personified.
  14. THFC Guest

    Its amazing that there are some who really believe that 4 x CL qualifications and a CL final, are in fact, gross under achievements. Clearly, given the vast amount of funds available to him for signings and the world class squad of players he inherited, he really should have done more.

    I genuinely think he will go on to bigger and better things with his new club and he will win silverware to enhance his reputation. It was a shame he didn’t resign after the CL final because that was the right time to go for all but he should be remembered as the manager who took us from a team that pretty much everyone wanted to play to a team that everyone wanted to avoid.

    Let’s see how long it takes for opinions to change when we are back to being the 3rd best team in London and are still playing hoof ball to a big man upfront.

  15. Jesper Active Member

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    I agree.

    Possibly removing the names of the managers would allow for evaluations of the different squads to be done with less emotions. As it is then it might be time to agree to disagree.
  16. It is difficult to argue against logic I know

    You’re excused
  17. Another hilarious take from the gentleman who specialises in grandiose statements of dumbassery yet when confronted with them immediately tries to start talking about something else

    Now I understand why... your arguments are fallacious at best and indefensible in a logical sense

    But do try to stay on point... you’ll at least earn a measure of respect going down with your ship
  18. Yes the monochromatic thinking displays no nuance at all especially when parsing itself.

    Pochettino seems back to his best. Did you hear he turned down the Barcelona job twice before signing with PSG?

    Amazing how such incompetence could be so highly sought after... hilarious

    I wish him well. A good manager who served the club with honour... a proper gentleman.
  19. Jesper Active Member

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    Cheshuntboy, you are right.

    At least it seems that there seems to be some kind of agreement now that Pochettino should have resigned after the CL-final.

    The discussion about whether or not the squad he left was of the same quality as the one he inherited is funny: The ones who believe Pochettino was great disagree with Pochettinos assessment that it needed a rebuild. He built the squad, he spent time in training with the squad but his ability to assess the squad correctly was apparently so poor that he failed to see that it was at the very least as good as the squad he once inherited.

    It might be more logical to blame the state of the squad on Levy and the scouting department, doing that would deflect (probably correct in doing so) some (but not all) citicism. But even a part blame would be too much of a blemish on the reputation of Pochettino so here we are.
    Felon82 likes this.
  20. Jesper Active Member

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    & for the people who are confused about the difference between debunking something and expressing an opinion then lets clarify by using an example:

    There is a claim that the present manager inherited the squad that played in the CL final of 2019. That claim can be fact-checked by comparing the two squads. Those squads are both matter of public record. The theory/claim that they are the same is when compared easily debunked.

    Some might be of the opinion that the differences between the two squads were insignificant. Stating that is expressing an opinion.
    Felon82 likes this.

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