Irrational hatred and nonsensical bar setting

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Felon82, December 29, 2020.

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  1. Big fran Guest

    When you get a chance pls read my comments again. I've based my opinion from what I have seen from day one Jose to what I see today! Not one game.
     
    Felon82 likes this.
  2. THFC Guest

    You said “For me, Jose was brought in to stop a side heading towards relegation and somehow try and rescue European football. Damn near got us CL given the injuries to kane and Son. He was the right man then and I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise”. This following a 3-0 win...I may be wrong but did you post anything similar after the previous 4 games? If not, I was guessing it was off the back of a return to decent results for us after beating Leeds...I didn’t say it was based on 1 game only.

    So, Leeds, Utd, City, Soton and Arsenal results aside, are you happy we have the right man? I’m not saying he isn’t by the way, I had doubts at the start but want to give him the full season to stamp his mark. I am not happy with the way we are playing though as think we sit way too deep and love a long ball which 9 times out of 10 hands over possession. I just wonder how given our performances (not results) last season and this season so far, how you can say “He was the right man then and I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise”. I would argue we haven’t seen a great improvement to suggest he was or is the right man yet? I hope he is, I like our current league position and the opportunities we have in the cups but we have won nothing yet and could finish anywhere in the top 10 based on current teams and performances. Will you still think the same if we don’t win anything or finish in the top 4 and have played all season like we have? I’m happy to sacrifice any kind of decent to watch football if it pays off but there is a fair way to go yet before we find out.

     
  3. Big fran Guest

    Show me quotes I've commented otherwise.
     
  4. THFC Guest

    In that case, I really hope that you are right as it would be great for us to finally actually win something. If we don’t win anything, does that mean that you won’t be turning into an anti JM on here and will continue to think he was and is the right man for us? There are lots of people who loved Poch initially and now rattle on about him in a negative way despite the great job he did (IMO). In a lot of cases, those same people now love JM....it will probably be those who turn on him if we win nothing so would be interesting to hear your view if our season turns out to be cupless and 8th (although as I said I really hope that is not the case as I like JM and really want CL football and a trophy for us like most people).

     
  5. Jose's Ghost Guest

    You're far too polite to a fellow who can't be arsed reading your posts but expects you to read his twice?

    Hilarious

    Save your breath... you're 100% right
     
  6. Big fran Guest

    I'll be no more anti Jose than I were and poch, redknapp or anyone else for that matter. He's come in with a set of targets I'd expect and they're not adhered to he will move on like any other. I've no problem with that. That's the game isn't it. What I don't do is get too emotionally involved with players or managers for that matter as the only constant is the fans. Poch did well. I wish him well at PSG I'm sure he'd win something there. His target obviously will be the CL and if he falls horribly short the axe will fall there also as it will Jose at spurs. If it does happen at spurs another man will come in and I'll get behind him also especially if his record is anywhere near impressive as mourinho.
     
  7. THFC Guest

    Should have kept Walker-Peters
     
  8. Big fran Guest

    I thought Mane ripped him a new one to be fair but some poor finishing by his standards.
     
  9. THFC Guest

    I thought he did pretty well given Liverpool spent 90 mins attacking yet only managed 1 shot on target...if Aurier or Doherty were playing it would have been 1-1 thanks to a late penalty

     
  10. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Would rather we had Hojbjerg in midfield than KWP as full back
     
  11. THFC Guest

    True

     
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  12. Jesper Active Member

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    I'd agree with most of what Felon82 wrote. A minor quibble is that I'd consider Wanyama better or maybe more needed than Höjbjerg. A ball-winning midfielder is essential, Höjbjerg can do the job but I'd consider Wanyama at his peak better.

    Pochettino himself repeatedly stated that a painful rebuild of the squad was needed. Google it. The first quote from him was before the end of the 2018/2019 season, he said it before the summer 2019 transfer window opened and after the window had closed. I'd agree with his assessment but I suppose there are a couple of posters here who'd disagree with Pochettino on that?
     
  13. THFC Guest

    I think he regularly said we needed to rebuild...he wasn’t backed and fans called him out for having no backbone in standing up to Levy. The same fans use the lack of financial support for JM as a reason for our predicament now...it can be both ways, they need to either call out JM’s lack of spine or acknowledge that Poch as able to do what he regularly said he needed to do

     
  14. Jesper Active Member

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    As is then in my opinion the league position is about what to expect based on the quality of the squad. The quality of play is about to expect based on the the quality of the squad combined with the intense schedule.

    I'd have preferred playing with three central midfielders in either a 433 or a 352 formation. As is then I do not see Spurs as having enough central midfielders to press opposition for 90 minutes twice a week for a full season.

    The central midfielders:
    -Ndombele, I don't see him managing pressing for 90 minutes twice a week.
    -Höjbjerg, appears to be tiring as I see him dropping down when others are pressing. Looks like he is marking space rather than marking his man and the result is that the press is bypassed.
    -Lo Celso, injured
    -Lamela, his weaker foot is too weak. If I was his manager I'd force him to practice his weaker foot at least 20minutes per day. He is a professional footballer and there is in my opinion no excuse for him having such preference for one foot.
    -Winks, has the energy. Might not have the quality but there are times when energy is more important than quality.
    -Sissoko, as a central midfielder he is not aggressive enough and drops down too deep.

    I'd agree that some line-ups and some substitutions have appeared to be strange. Bale is either playing too much or too little. I'd say too much. There are some other things as well but all in all I'd be surprised if any manager would always do things that I'd like.

    There might be some different opinions about what Poch meant by major over-haul of the squad. For me then I'd say in normal times then 1-2 players are replaced per year, possibly a major over-haul means that 5-6 players to be replaced.
    In my opinion the squad is in the process of being over-hauled.

    This season was always going to be tough. The lesser teams will play a lot less matches, they'll manage to play the same team match after match while Spurs have to rotate. Even with rotation Spurs will have played more matches and will be at risk of injuries and loss of energy. There will be less time for recovery and less time for players to play together as a team. Therefore there will be very few, if any, easy matches for a Spurs team playing so many matches.
     
  15. Paul Don Guest

    1/ Spurs are a massive club that should demand success
    2/ For some reason we have loads of deadwood every year.
    3/ There have been lots of issues going back many years. Early 80s , trophies. Now buy the centre back & midfield warrior that was glaringly obvious & a league title was very possible. Nothing done.
    4/ Venables was just getting it right & sacked
    5/ no mental strength or leaders in team
    6/ i seem in a minority , but Dembele for his skill & strength should have done far more. How many goals & assists in his time at Spurs? No urgency
    7/ up to date , Pochs last year was terrible in league. We now have Winks, Lamela, Dier, Sanchez, Aurier, Bergwijn, Moura ,Davies & more who are not good enough or even poor, 4 class players , Tanguy is an upgrade on Dembele for me. Bale lost it , Toby old. 3 or 4 others in Gio, Req, Ro who need time. But we must spend big on a couple & recruit shrewdly
     
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  16. Jesper Active Member

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    For some perspective, the Liverpool transformation:
    https://www.givemesport.com/1511589...pool-xi-and-the-seven-subs-where-are-they-now
    Complete overhaul. I read somewhere that it took only two seasons to replace nine out of the starting eleven.
    & that starting eleven was inherited from Rodgers who is now doing well in a club with one of the best recruitments in the EPL. So for me, the change is about getting the recruitment right and I do not think Rodgers is the key to Leicesters success in recruitment.

    Whatever the problem might be at Spurs I do not think that the manager is it, improve recruitment is key to improving the team and performance.
     
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  17. Jesper Active Member

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    & here is one link:
    https://talksport.com/football/537515/tottenham-mauricio-pochettino-transfer-news/
    “Now it’s about creating another chapter and to have the clear idea of how we are going to build that new project. We need to rebuild. It’s going to be painful.”

    What did he mean by 'painful'? Replace two starters? Or more?

    The love for Pochettino appears to have led to some feeling ill-will for his successor - the not-Pochettino. It seems that since Pochettino have moved on some fans are ready to move on and are now talking about who will be the not-not-Pochettino. I guess we will be hearing complaints about the not-Pochettino until the not-not-Pochettino is in place....
    Maybe the non-not-Pochettino can do better than Mourinho and opinions are sure to vary about that. I'm of the opinion that Mourinho are better than most of the not-not-Pochettinos and replacing Mourinho with a not-not-Pochettino is unlikely to improve where it improvements are needed - in player recruitment.
     
    Felon82 likes this.
  18. THFC Guest

    As a Spurs fan, I am as guilty as the rest of us with our expectation for success.
    We are not owned by a deep pocketed Billionaire and as such despite our constant desire to win things, really need a reality check.
    Finishing as the top team placing in London and in the top 4 is a great outcome...in actual fact it’s probably punching above our weight in terms of investment vs reward.

    To be part of the CL each season is something we should be grateful for, not something we should expect. There are teams with owners who have much deeper pockets as well as teams with much larger fan bases that are all fighting for the same prize.

    To reach the FA Cup/Carabao Cup final is a very small nice to have but in no way makes up for top 4 or CL.

    We should be grateful for the run of years where we outperformed most other teams and managed to get to a CL final (which I genuinely never thought I would see in my lifetime).

    Instead there is a strange hatred of the man that took us to those places and an even stranger love of the one who has been given, what in reality, is an impossible task to take us even further.

    Does JM seem like a good guy, yes....has he won a lot previously, of course....has he taken us beyond any of those amazing heights we have reached in the last 4 years, no and without major financial backing, he is very unlikely to do so. Therefore is the the right coach to improve what we have without spending money? That’s the question that seems to be sparking the heated debate and based on our level of performances and results is the source of such division.

    Will the JM supporters still be backing him at the end of the season when the only London team below us is Fulham?
     
  19. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    You say we are not owned by a deep pocketed billionaire do you know that Joe Lewis was valued recently at 4359 billion .How deep is that??
     
  20. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Why don't I share your admiration for Pochettino? So many reasons, not least that he inherited the best group of players we'd had since Pleat's 1986/86 squad and, like Pleat, failed to turn-up when it mattered. Pleat's Spurs surrendered the League Cup Semi-final to George Graham's Arsenal, and failed in the FA Cup Final against Coventry, while I itemised Pochettino's list of team no-shows in big matches only a few posts back, and the fact of our marked decline from the 2017 high to the 2019 low (certainly including the CL Final, where our pathetic performance more than offset the exhilarating fluke of beating City and Ajax - I don't regard 'runner-up' as a trophy!) speaks for itself.
    I still want Mourinho to succeed, but I certainly don't expect him to, and I don't blame him for our plight, given the number of dead-beats and wasters who continue to stink out the club. If I give Jose a free pass, why not Pochettino? Because he so obviously believed all the hype, from SAF's absurd OTT praise to the media adoration, and to produce an autobiography without a single trophy on his CV was the height of hubris. Like him or loathe him, Mourinho is a genuine football legend, while Pochettino remains a pretender, and he'll need to win ten French titles with PSG before I'll reconsider my opinion.
     

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