Irrational hatred and nonsensical bar setting

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Felon82, December 29, 2020.

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  1. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Something we can both agree on and is the running theme for all managers under ENIC.
    If only we could work out why? ......
     
  2. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Because 1 is spent/failed and the other is what we have to look forward too as a measure of where we are currently
     
  3. THFC Guest

    Just watching Liverpool and I’m trying to work out if it’s us or Newcastle playing them...the game plan, style and quality is so similar it’s actually quite depressing especially given the amount of injuries Liverpool are having to deal with and the dominance & quality they are showing with the ball. Choosing to drop deep and allow possession is asking for trouble and can only lead to trouble against top sides...It’s only Liverpool not taking their chances that is keeping Newcastle in this game and should serve as a warning to this type of bottom half attitude
     
  4. THFC Guest

    It’s not about drawing or losing, it’s about the manor of the results and our performances in them which at the moment is akin to Newcastle United based on their match against Liverpool today (and we have a far stronger squad than them).

    I am a little comfused how on one hand you are saying we have the best side we have had in 60 years (with performances and results to match sadly without winning a trophy though) and on the other hand slating the manager that delivered that side and consistent league and CL positions while defending the one who has come in? IMO Poch and JM are working under very similar circumstances with very similar budgets being afforded to them and very similar issues (squad quality etc) but with massively different attitudes to how the game should be played. This then comes back to, if we win, the current style is ok to accept because we are winning. If we don’t win, what’s the point as the whole premise of JM is he is a winner and will drive winning mentality into our squad...there is not a lot of evidence of this yet but hopefully come the end of the season we will be top 4 and have won the Europa League and Carabao Cup...then it’s all worth it.

     
  5. THFC Guest

    They seem to have had similar player volumes per season but vastly different net spend which is still way lower than all other top 6 sides:
    MP net spend of 19. 3 million (24 players)
    JM net spend of £56.2 million (7 players)

     
  6. Cheshuntboy Guest

    I know I'm as guilty as anyone for referencing previous managers when talking about the current state of Spurs, but surely Pochettino's golden period at Tottenham was of just two years from 2015 to 2017, the two seasons when we managed our highest league positions of the PL era, but still failed to win a trophy. His next two seasons were of clear relative decline, with CL spots snatched by the skin of our teeth (courtesy only of Arsenal's last gasp penalty miss in 2018/19!), and we surely all remember the joys of Colchester, Munich and 14th in the PL little more than a year ago. Pochettino had shot his bolt, the team was in decline, with only Kane and Son showing anything like their form of three or four years back, and Mourinho took over a shambles, which he's clearly struggling to sort out more than twelve months on.
    I don't fully share Felon's sympathetic view of his situation, in that Mourinho built a reputation for guaranteed success (which is what justifies his mammoth salary), and continues to talk the talk of a winner without yet walking the walk, but almost all the players who starred for Pochettino have left, lost form or just grown old, so blaming his successor for natural change and decay is just absurd, in my view, anyway.
     
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  7. THFC Guest

    I hear you...I’m not a Poch fan, I’m a Spurs fan and Poch did indeed start to see a decline in performances towards the end. What I can’t get my head around is how when he couldn’t sign new players/improve the squad, he was labelled as having no backbone etc. JM has come in and that same issue is often used as an excuse for him so doesn’t seem to make sense.

    If we win something/get top 4 then JM will have been a success, albeit while playing some of the worst football in the league....but....what if we don’t win anything and finish 6th or 7th, what will the opinions be then?

    My question for you is, are you happy watching us week in, week out, currently?

     
  8. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Bus-parking against clearly superior sides is understandable (if not exactly heroic), but I don't get it when we're playing Brighton or Palace - can't the established internationals who constitute most of our squad hold their own against the sharp-elbowed journeymen who're still found in the lower reaches of the PL? Mourinho presumably thinks not, and I'm sure he knows more about our lot's numerous weaknesses than I do, but he's got to win something with this anti-football, otherwise it's totally futile.
    With his previous track record, expectations of Mourinho are rightly far higher than if Levy had gone for an Arteta-type, and patience is in short supply when we're throwing points away as casually as at the moment. He's a victim of his own successes elsewhere (and his own hype), but he's got to keep-up his 'trophy at every club' record, because a blank at Spurs would really cement our status as the joke of the PL - please do it for all of us Jose, believers or not!
     
  9. Guesty Guest

    Bus parking against the better sides away from home I can somewhat begrudgingly accept.
    But I don't think we should be parking the bus at home against anyone.
    When it works and we win.. the result masks the performance...... but when it doesn't it looks awful.
    The thing that upsets me is not even trying to score unless it is a breakaway.
    We are sadly in a results business... and JM needs to win some games in Jan. (shame the Fulham game was cancelled as it would of course lifted us to 3rd)

    having said that JM does have to manage a squad with soo few game changers. (offensively and defensively)

    I had though Bale would have made a difference.... but for some reason he hasn't. I'm a little shocked by that. Anyone know if he is injured?.... or just can't take the PL pace??
     
  10. THFC Guest

    You have hit the nail on the head...to do what we did against City, Utd and to a lesser extent a very poor Arsenal is great and shows JM is doing some things well.

    But to play the same way against Palace and Wolves is just not good enough. Yes, Wolves are a decent side but to play to their strengths and then be punished for it is just not good enough for us to become winners of anything. Don’t get me wrong, a point against Wolves isn’t terrible but it could and should have been more after our start. The same against Liverpool, yes they are a good side but we let them dominate and ultimately got what we deserved from that game...Newcastle & WBA proved that we should really have come away with more.

    I really like Jose’s character from what I have seen on the documentary and no one can argue with what he has achieved. My fear is football has moved on and we are playing a style that suited 10 years ago but not now. Ultimately results are critical but performances are important too....if we don’t win games like Wolves then we should at least be performing well and coming away feeing really disappointed with dropped points rather than grateful to pick up one.

    I really hope we can work some magic in January and swap Sanchez for Skirinar then pick up Sabitzer from Leipzig by moving on Alli or Winks. If we can then somehow pick up Max Aaron’s to drop in at RB it would be a great window, especially if we can move on a couple like Rose & Gedson.

     
  11. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    This , more eloquently put than I could but is mainly my position on it.

    People believing we were in false positions and the team is anywhere near the level of the side 3/4 years prior are just being totally disingenuous or deluded or both.

    JM brings with him his winner reputation and is paid extremely handsomely to do just that.
    It's down to him to prove that now at Tottenham, but he at least needs a fair crack of the whip which a large chunk of our fan base just won't accept or want.
     
  12. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    I'd just like to add on the performances of course no one likes negative football, we all want to be entertained it's what/why we love the game.
    But let's get 1 or 2 things clear as I keep saying about the level of quality in the side.
    If you genuinely think the personal performances of Sissoko Winks LoCelso N'Dombele Moura Lamela Alli etc are anywhere near good enough when they play on paper lesser sides or part time farmers and don't stand out, don't get on or command the ball, have a collective of about 2 goals n an assist between them is because of shackles or instruction then you are being far too generous to their actual commitment & talent.
    Again the numerous last minute goals from set pieces etc that's purely down to players taking responsibility and doing their jobs individually and collectively and most of all professionally this can't be blamed on the Manager it's basic defending they're supposed to be internationals.
     
  13. Guesty Guest

    I wouldn't lose any sleep if any of the players you mentioned were to leave

    have a good New Year all
     
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  14. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    Just watched man united against Villa a proper game of football.We beat these league leaders6-1.How the world has changed .Oh for a Grealish or Fernandes in our team
     
  15. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    You mean players that play with their heads up and want to influence/win a game?
    Won't find them in Spurs midfield, the closest we have is N'Dombele who can't complete 90minutes
     
  16. JM's tactics is getting too predictable to deliver results. Get the ball to Kane in our own half and wait for Son to run beyond. Every team knows this is what Spurs is going to do. So foul Kane in his own half and you effectively negate our attack.

    Continue playing like this and hope it deliver the results we have at the start of the season, you can say bye bye to Top 4. We would deliver better results being more adventurous.

    When JM joined a year ago, before he had a chance to tweak the team to play in this current style, we were getting results and more watchable. Now it's difficult to watch. I guess it's even more frustrating for the players to play this way. We don't deliberately give the ball away to our opponents. We simply try to pump long balls forward hoping the delivery is good enough to find the odd player forward.
     
  17. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Is Bielsa what the moaning fans want ?
     
  18. Genevaspurs Guest

    The day Mourinho will have the same workforce as Bielsa, we'll talk about it again ... Nothing comparable in terms of budget and quota!
    Apart from that rather a good overall match from our Spurs and strongly that we will buy a good right Back soon !!
     
  19. Big fran Guest

    Cannot be assed to read the full article nor the comments as I can see how it goes. I'm on Facebook support groups and it's full of poch lovers who never gave Jose a crack from day one.
    They never will.
    For me, Jose was brought in to stop a side heading towards relegation and somehow try and rescue European football. Damn near got us CL given the injuries to kane and Son. He was the right man then and I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise. We are what 6 points off top spot and but for some misfortune could be better off but that's another story. On top of that this team still has the remnants of poch. We kick off most games with 8 or 9 men compared to Chelsea pool City. The club needed a massive culture change as did the fans. Many still are stuck into a time warp of the alleged spurs way or poch way which has yielded little if your unfortunate to be under 40 years of age.
    Folk will be happy after today's performance and result if not just maybe go quiet for a little while waiting for a another hiccup they always do as the comments or lack of seem to support. I've seen nothing day in the set up today in approach or tactics from the season as a whole. The only difference being execution and a players performance. We won more 2nd balls today than we have in our last 3 games maybe meaning we could counter quicker and more often. The front 2 performed as they had in the games we smashed united, soton et Al. Turned over city arsenal and should have beaten Lpool. Its as simple as that. Sometimes players just don't perform. Some games have been dross and some have blown me away.
    The style is not to knock the ball sideways and backwards for 90 mins to submission. It's to win the ball back quickly and transition guickly thru the lines. Anyone who thinks Jose doesn't want to win the ball back and needlessly give away possession need to really assess what they know about football.
     
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  20. THFC Guest

    It was a good performance and decent result against a side that play into the way JM wants us to play perfectly. The same can’t be said about the last 4 games but hopefully that was our blip/dip in results now out of the way. Just because we beat a side that have conceded 30 goals in a game of attack vs defence doesn’t mean that JM fans, such as yourself are right about him this season any more than losing to Liverpool backs the fact Poch was great. The proof will be in the pudding at the end of the season...if we are top 4 and win a cup of some kind, JM will have proved to have been a success despite any kind of football style we have had to endure watching. If we get to the end of the season trophy less and outside the top 4 then he will not. I think it’s a bit early to be calling out success for JM based on a win against Leeds though after the last possible 12 points against more consistent top 10 teams yielded 2 points. Let’s hope we pick up our consistency and start to pick up some more results again and hopefully stop taking Ndombele off when he clearly can keep going because he was looking great until hauled off and did not look best pleased about it.

     

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