I saw more than a 4-2 defeat on Saturday

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Craig Emanuel, April 25, 2017.

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  1. GH10 Guest

    Felon you're never happy mate & I know your answer will be something along the lines of why should you be happy with winning nothing.

    I'm not suggesting a happy clapping mentality, but this time 4/5 years ago on this forum we were dissecting games and pulling our hair out after losing 5-0 to likes of City, Chelsea, Lpool and United so on and so on., watching slow, boring football from players who couldn't give a shite whether there was a cockerel on the crest or a chicken.

    Now, during present day, we are gutted that we have lost a semi-final to Chelsea in which we probably deserved more (I know again this will mean nothing to you).

    So have a bit of perspective pal, we've come a long way in a short space of time, and to discredit that, I would go as far to call you a bit of spoilt brat.

    Every team wants to win the league/cup, but there can only be one. We can all admit that we are getting close, and when we DO win something, the fans who are level-head and calm about our future during times like these can hold their heads up with pride. For you though, I don't think I can say the same.

    Nomadico likes this.
  2. S-P Guest

    Que? We weren't distinctly lucky against Citeh at the Lane - we completely and utterly outplayed them. Utterly. It was a tremendous performance and the one we're people started taking notice of us. Citeh were on the back of ten straight wins - and we totally outplayed them. We missed a penalty, and even if we had scored it, three nil would have been kind to Citeh.

    Could you explain why you think we were distinctly lucky in that match? Maybe you should watch it again.
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  3. Craig Emanuel Member

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    I think he must be thinking about a different game. The Citeh game at the Lane was probably our best performance of the entire season! And that was without Kane!
  4. Craig Emanuel Member

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    - We have achieved our highest PL finish (3rd) last season. Should have been second.
    - We are on course to better that this year.
    - We are about to smash our highest ever PL points total (72)
    - We have been in a title race two years running. When was the last time Arsenal or Man United were in a title race?

    I'm not sure what you expect from us at the start of each season. A couple of years ago the top aspiration for most of us was 4th place. We didn't think anything more was possible. Now the league has got even more competitive (Jose, Klopp, Pep all coming in) and we are outperforming all of those teams. Citeh, United and Chelsea have limitless money and we're second in the league. We haven't won a trophy but we're overachieving based on our resources. We can't spend £89m on Pogba or pay Zlatan £300k a week. We need to find gems like Eric Dier and Dele Alli for £4m and £5m and nurture them into top PL players. That doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't aspire to win the league but your expectations are way too high.

    I HOPE to win the league but don't EXPECT to. Second shouldn't be viewed as a failure. Not for us. Not based on where we've come from over the past few years and how we've grown. And we should be revelling in the way we're playing - our performances are exhilarating, we're scoring goals for fun and have the meanest defence in the league. If you can't enjoy this then you may as well give up! Fans of most clubs would cut their right arm off to be where we are.

    I don't really understand your sense of entitlement. I get that we should all aspire to be the best and not accept second place. But when you put the season in perspective (at this slightly premature stage), we have done pretty well. Would you rather win a league cup and finish 11th (like we did in 2008). Would that constitute a better season in your book? I'd personally rather be setting the PL alight and cementing our qualification for the CL again than watching the likes of Didier Zokora and Alan Hutton win us a largely meaningless cup. If we are to compete for the top trophies in the long term then CL revenues and the ability it gives us to attract better players are vital.
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  5. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    And Spurs have spoiled us so much over the years that I was 9 the last time we won a Major trophy.

    My point is and always will be wearing failure with pride does not make Winners.

    People Happy with nearly nice try does not make Winners.

    Spurs have developed a warped sense of what success and achievement is, you can find plenty of sites where we actually have our own fans gloating about how much money we don't spend.

    Boasting how proud they are when we've lost.

    Blaming hoo doos for poor attitude, application and organisation in Europe.

    Bleating the same old , we're learning, progressing, building yet it's the eternal project that never delivers.

    We even have fans that dislike/abuse others for wanting success, actual success not the type that is found on a spread sheet or possession stat.

    If these are the level headed fans walking around with Pride then that's why they enjoy failure so much.
  6. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    As I've previously posted our progress has somewhat come as a demise of the established top 4 , last year's league was a joke that Leicester won at a canter even they showed a mental edge over us when it came to crunch time.

    I've not said we've had a bad season this year nor that I've not enjoyed it , but people coming on here saying how proud they are about going out of the cup need to get a grip.

    I have no sense of entitlement, I look at the Team we have and think we have enough quality to win things but won't due to a lack of want/drive/belief supported by happy clappers encouraging it and lapping it up.

    We are the Jimmy White of football.
    Last edited: April 25, 2017
  7. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    Let's just agree that it was a tough pill to swallow. We were defeated, yes you can blame the refs and whatever; but at the end of the day it was a loss and we're out of the cup. I too question the reasoning with Son, I assume Poch wanted to push Moses further up the field with Son attacking but that backfired.

    The difference in the squads was the bench. We need to address these issues in the transfer window and acquire quality of player who improves our squad and fits our style. Hopefully we don't wait until the last day of the window, we need the players to come in with enough time to adjust to the squad and maybe get rid of some of the ones that didn't work (Sissoko).

    All in all, we'll see how the squad reacts. We as fans ought to be positive moving forward; learning how to win is a process and Poch and the lads are going through it. In time, I believe Poch will deliver!
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  8. Craig Emanuel Member

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    We're all hurting mate and no one more desperately wants genuine achievements (tangible trophies) than I do.

    I was born in 83, the year after you. I know exactly how you feel. I've been through the full gamut of emotions with Spurs. I've reacted differently to different situations - after Newcastle away last year I was furious (putting it mildly) and aimed fire at all of our players. I distanced myself from the team - maybe as a defence mechanism. "They" were not "us". Not that day. They let us down badly.

    But after Saturday and after the season we've had, I will stand side by side with the players, the manager and the coaching staff - win, lose or draw. I'm gutted. I still haven't stemmed the bleeding. But this war is not over and I will keep fighting alongside our troops until the bitter end. Because they show fight that I've never seen from a Spurs team before. There's no lack of want or drive from this group. It's unfair of you to say that. I don't think they lack belief either, but I can't say the same about some of our fanbase.

    After the match on Saturday, on Wembley Way, I defiantly shouted over the police corden that we had outplayed them for 90 minutes and today they got away with it but "we're coming for you!" to which the guy next to me said "but we're not, are we?" It's that negativity and defeatism that astounds me about much of our fanbase. It no doubt comes from the years of pain we've endured. I went into the game on Saturday entrenched in the mindset that "this would be OUR day". I think plenty of others went to Wembley expecting the "same old". And, in terms of the outcome, they got it.

    I'm currently seeing everything I want in a Spurs team. Fight, spirit, technical ability, excitement, attacking football, homegrown talent, power, aggression, goals galore etc etc... The only thing missing is the trophies (which admittedly is the whole point of it all). We must be patient - I know we've already waited for what seems like an eternity but I believe that if we keep this group together (which is crucial) and keep progressing at the current rate, those trophies won't be too far away.

    Finally, (as we need a bit of levity,) you're being a bit harsh on Jimmy White. At least he got to some finals!
    Felon82 likes this.
  9. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Funny that I cite four games where we were distinctly second best, and you dispute just one of them. My recollection of the home game against City is that they started better than us, and failed to take some good chances before we took over and finished the game comfortably on top - isn't that pretty much how the cup match went from Chelsea's perspective? The theme of this blog is that we were unlucky, just like City were at WHL (and they were the victims of daylight robbery at the Etihad, as even the most blinkered Spurs supporter must agree!), but I doubt that their fans, or Liverpool's, Arsenal's or United's congratulate their players and manager so warmly as many of our lot seem to after yet another failure - it's no wonder that we've amassed two league cups in a quarter of a century when we set the bar so low.
    Felon82 likes this.
  10. johnnyhrvat Guest

    Excellent blog Craig and you hit everything spot on.

    With regard to some of the negative comments (the winning team is always the best team & it's all about trophies) - some fans should be careful what they wish for. Any of us old enough to have enjoyed the second division know that there is always a danger of doing a 'Leeds' or a 'Portsmouth'. None of us are happy with losing but, to win in future we need to look at the good points from a defeat as well as our mistakes. We don't want to win trophies by diving in the penalty area or such tricks, we want to win with style - we already have the style and the trophies are not far away.

    Only thing that I didn't agree with was your later comment about not blaming Son. I blame him, not for the penalty, but for all the times he was one-on-one with Moses, he didn't get past him once, and he even got out-muscled one time - a 10-year old girl wouldn't be out-muscled by Moses. Son was also guilty at the Bridge - being marked by Moses when we lost the ball, he allowed Vicky to wander upfield alone to score the winner. Not good enough.
  11. Craig Emanuel Member

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    No one is congratulating anyone. We're all mired in misery. But there were some positives which are worth highlighting.

    In terms of your first post...

    We dominated the City home game from start to finish. Went 1-0 up in the first 10 minutes and never looked back.

    I agree that City away was "daylight robbery" but we were understrength - with Wimmer coming in and having a mare. And even then we still showed great spirit to fight back to get a draw. And the two goals conceded were goalkeeping blunders (including a Sane handball) so we arguably could have won that game.

    Liverpool were the better team against us home and away - the only team which you could say that for. They've been great all season against the top sides but have repeatedly dropped points against the lesser teams and so are 5 points below us having played one game more. Their place in the top 4 now looks in jeopardy. I'd rather be us.

    We can look at any team and point at individual games in the season where things haven't gone well. But we've only lost 3 league games all season. No team has lost fewer. Not even Chelsea! They've already lost 3 this calendar year. We've only lost 1. Chelsea have lost away to Spurs, United and Arsenal. I know these are meaningless stats but I'm just showing that we can dissect every team and point to flaws.

    No one is accepting second place (or semi finals) as the height of our ambitions. We're just trying to reflect in a level headed manner on what was a good performance, if not the right result.
    Nomadico likes this.
  12. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    It is as simple as that. At this elite level the margins are fine. Given our thin squad we have, quite simply, over achieved. If you make a basic error, as Poch did, then mix in a shite game from Hugo, you are going to struggle. Where were our game changers....we
    have none sadly. Despite all that we are still in the mix.
  13. Cheshuntboy Guest

    So far as the City game at WHL is concerned, I base my opinion on an early miss by Silva, an own goal (which I always regard as unlucky, whoever benefits from it), and a fairly clear penalty shout for City when the score was 1-0 - those moments can be (and usually are) crucial in deciding the outcome of a match, but the final score not only determines who gets the points, or the trophy, but how the match is viewed and reported. How many times have you seen a game where one side (usually Spurs) has all the play, all the chances, but falls victim to a sucker punch, and then has insult added to injury when the media reports it as a deserved victory for the daylight robber (usually WBA)? The fact that we are rarely mugged these days obviously shows that we're generally more organised and professional than in the days of Redknapp or Jol, but we don't have the likes of Bale or VDV to provide the match-winning magic, and NEED a trophy or two to shut up miserable old gits like me (and I really will shut up when we finally crack it, promise).
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  14. burnt Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing how many don't see the link between being in the top 4 regularly and winning domestic trophies ... They whinge away when some of us go on about the importance of becoming a regular top 4 team and not just a flash in the pan , that winning mickey mouse domestic trophies is more important to them like the great teams we had zillions of years ago .... The history of the Premier League will tell you that all teams that have become regulars in the Champions League have always competed in finals and picked up domestic cups along the way ... There's a bunch of Arseholes down the road , a team generally accepted by most to be gutless pussies , but Champ Lg regulars non the less , they could pick up their 3rd Fa Cup in the last 4 or 5 years ... It's not a coincidence , one thing does lead to another here ....

    As far as City being unlucky against us at the Lane ... Don't buy that myself , your clutching at straws there mate , but that's just my opinion ...

    Last Sat was a sickener for all involved but no one can deny we're getting closer and closer in every way ... Hopefully we can hang onto all our gems , keep adding to them and keep driving forward ... Like quiet a few im not too convinced we can manage that under our current financial setup but there's no point worrying about that until it happens ...

    Big game for us this eve , we need to bounce back straight away and finish this season the right no matter our finishing position ... This looks a tricky one on paper , these are a proper big Sam team now and we all know how difficult Sams teams can be .. You'd imagine this being a proper test at the best of times , never mind having to play a few days after loosing a semi final the way we did .. Big test this , one would imagine ... Im hopeful as always but im cautious about this one ... C.O.Y.S ......
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  15. Nomadico Well-Known Member

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    Tonight will show us how much "Backbone"and"Fight" the team have,it will be interesting to see how Poch set's the team up and,to show us that he to has learned from the Chelski match. COYS.
  16. Big fran Guest

    Think one or two need to get real. Second place will constitute progress and a good season. However dont confuse that with actual success. I'd much rather win the fa cup than second place or even top four.
    Again porch got caught in between prioritizing the league with one eye on tonights game and reaching a cup final. Changing the system,playing son at left wing back and leaving walker out cost us dear. Played well or not we bottled it like we did when we played Leicester at the lane same stage last year. Dominated the game but lost the game in the dying minutes ...
    If I were kyle walker I'd be very unhappy he's in the EPL team of the year and been left out of a semi final as he was in key champions league group games in which a tournament he was instrumental in qualifying for last season.
    Now we probably end up pot less as we did last term when again poch got stuck between the Europa league, league and league cup and got it wrong.
    See how Conte leaves players out because he has made the league a priority cos he's a winner. He will more than likely get a double after still seeing us off despite leaving key players out.
    Now the talk is a about players leaving us for bigger more ambitious clubs. It will happen if the board dont step up and sign world class players.
    Felon82 likes this.
  17. burnt Well-Known Member

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    Great result by all this eve in what was always going to be a difficult game .. It wasn't our best performance by a long way but that was always going to be the case tonight I taught .. This team deff has most of the ingredients needed to achieve what we all want them to ... Onwards and upwards hopefully ... Goodison not the easiest place to have to go and get a result , I just hope they do a lot better then they did at the weekend , if they perform like that on Sunday , it will be a stroll in the park for Chavski .. On the other hand , if they can nick something out of the game ,it sets up some N.L.D on Sunday eve , as if it needed any more significance .. There's life left in this season yet guys , for another few days anyway ... C.O.Y.S ......
  18. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Twas by no means a stellar performance but the win was the main thing.
    Good goal by Eriksen.
    Wish we had a bit more pace and trickery going forward.
    Sissoko and Lamela need to be sold to fund this.
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  19. Craig Emanuel Member

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    Win ugly. Grind out the result when you're not at your best. That's what makes champions.

    Sunday is clearly crucial. Chelsea win and I think it's game over. If they stumble and we better their result in any way, then we go to West Ham next Friday knowing that a win will put us top of the league. Then Chelsea would be under real pressure.
    Bazza47 likes this.
  20. GH10 Guest

    Felon your comments are too predictable.

    Grind out a win, it's no stellar performance.

    Smash them, you would say it's only Palace, they're **** and so on.

    Our game management last night was great. Soaked up their early pressure, which was inevitable considering they're the home side on a good run of form, then saw it out well in the second half.

    8 consecutive wins in the league, first time we've done it since the 60s? And still some won't admit how much we've improved? What a strange world we live in eh????
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