He's Magic ... er noooo

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Felon82, August 26, 2019.

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  1. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Lackluster, slow, predictable, uninventive.....

    You name it, it was us yesterday. Although it's not just yesterday this type of performance has been festering within this spurs outfit since it ran out of steam, ideas, momentum 2 seasons ago.

    The freak accident of making it to the CL final (by VaR decisions and flirting with going out at the death the whole way through from being the worser side) went a long way in covering up this now beyond busted flush we've been neglected into.

    Rewind the clock 2/3 seasons we had what was presumed an exciting young coach with a high press plan that was based on hassling the opposition into mistakes and then using pace and guile to destroy them.
    We had a young promising buccaneering side that teams really struggled to play against.
    Not only was it effective it was entertaining, coherent, flowing football.

    Fast forward a couple of missed Transfer windows, some sales, some questionable acquisitions and what do we have.
    A team that looks sorry for itself, starts every game on the back foot, plays a passing game that hasn't an idea how or indeed when to go forward, there's no press, no pace, no guile, it's just a laboured painful to watch sorry excuse for what it once was.

    Pochettino is beginning to look like Mourinho post Madrid, he's not the same happy go lucky chap who the media fawn over, he's turning into the same surly excuse making rambling uninterested self protecting manager that José became after his methods became ineffective.

    Look up North and you'll see 2 inspirational Managers prowling their technical areas, demanding good football, demanding more, demanding better, improving their players striving for perfection.
    The total embodiment of a winning philosophy that everyone has to get on board with else you'll quickly find yourself surplus.

    Would our resident wally Lamela get a regular starting birth at either of these sides?
    Why do we cling to these players like 1 day they're going to wake up and stop being bang average ?
    No, we instead give them 5year well paid deals.

    It's incredible when I hear/see fans talk about Pochettino and his mythical improvement of players because I'll list a few now who have steadily gotten worse and these are actually his more successful players -

    Kane, Eriksen, Alli, Lloris, Rose, Davies, Dier, Wanyama, Sanchez

    Lamela has stayed in the painfully bang average bracket, Sissokos run about like a mad man falls in the same bracket

    There's also non entities like Aurier, Foyth etc who just don't play or can't stay fit.

    This is before we sort through the scraps of Njie Nkodous Stamboulis etc

    When are people going to wake up this project is going nowhere and Pochettino is a busted flush.

    It's not all his fault of course but he's been mainly compliant with Ming the Penniless and his sheer incompetence leaving what was looking like a promising young side looking like an old family pet that's 1 more 'accident' from being put down.

    A few of us on here were pre warning this was coming because of the sheer negligence of not buying/replacing/upgrading players at a sensible level, much like running a car year on year without servicing , ignoring the knocking sounds missing wing mirror bald tyres oil light etc
    It's been the same running a thin squad into the ground until all the parts are worn out or not working anymore.
    At some point it'll come up in a heap and yesterday was the moment.

    I genuinely can't remember the last time we actually played well, I found other than the CL drama the performances were so dull, every game was struggle and that's what we are now an old slugger.

    Yesterday's game was the straw for me, Pochettino now has some serious questions moving forward all this he's magic you know BS and the 2nd coming of Fergie is absolutely laughable.
    Jan on the bench and Eriksen????
    You wouldn't mind if we had ample competition for places but if you're expecting Coco the Clown and Harry sideways Winks to unlock an organised defence while Kane Son and Moura try and manufacture from scraps then as a manager in his 6th year at the club your either incompetent or arrogantly ignorant.
    Pochettino has failed in the Transitioning of this team badly, his buys are extremely questionable and his 'efforts' during the Transfer Windows.

    And this is before the obvious complete lack of pace and width in the side, the snail pace negative passing , the ambling around movement , the sheer lack of any leadership qualities which haven't just crept out of nowhere.

    4 wins in the Premier League since February, 4 out of 15 says it all in case there's anyone that wants to bleat on about how far we've come and that Poch is the best thing since sliced bread.

    Just waiting to see now how further weakened this squad can get before the European deadline.

    It's a disgrace.

    And we are reaping the rewards of a nearly is enough attitude , 4th will do mantra because in sport if you don't aggressively want to improve all the time you'll soon be overtaken by competitors that do.
    Gordon Mc likes this.
  2. Sir hotspur Guest

    I just cannot believe how stubborn Poch is I saw the new midfield of winks sissoko and nondebele against inter we were slow and ponderous winks was sat in behind them ( he is no modicum ). Again the same midfield against Aston Villa and repeated against Manchester City and in my opinion only changed cos nondebele was injured each time we were second to the ball and no attempt to up the tempo till we scored a goal. I saw Poch say le cello is weeks away from starting yet arsenal sign 3 players and they are all now playing from the start. We had an opportunity to get cellibos on loan who has hit the ground running but levy says no and signs on loan le celso who in his 2 cameo appearances has looked average does not look like he can supply that pass that Ericsson could but it’s too early to judge.
    No second striker to bring off the bench when our rivals have at least 2 others if Kane has a bad season where are the goals coming from.
    The situation with walker- peters is a strange one last season when we had injuries Poch preferred Aurier and Fpyth ahead of him and this season he’s number 1. He does not attempt to take on the opposing full back tucks in and constantly is out of position why did we not buy a new full back when trios was sold and aurier was leaving my belief is balance the books levy said no not until aurier leaves. In my opinion le celso was loaned cos levy is not sure if Poch is staying and a new manager may not want le celso.
    Levy in my opinion is the catalyst for al, that is going wrong on the pitch he is happy with 4th it brings champions league football so why chase a title which brings very little extra money and for ENIC and investment company makes no financial sense.
    Levy has been lucky he had the gift of Kane who cost him nothing, when Kane a world class striker leaves and he will Levy will sell for a large sum and will not replace him with a similar player we don,t spend big so we will get an unproven in the premiership player from abroad probably early 20’s who can be sold if it does not work.

    Lastly let’s talk about the stadium so far over budget and who makes up the shortfall selling players that’s what.

    ENIC have a master plan I. My opinion and it is only that to have an nifty franchise relocate from the USA and play at our new stadium the tv money from the nfl is huge and that would swell the coffers and fill the ground.

    Maybe this has been ENIC plan all along Spurs to be marginalised for NFL team.

    I love my team and I want to see it win a league title but my big fear is under Levy’s stewardship we may regress but I believe the luck maybe running out and Thursday nite football a possibility once more as arsenal Chelsea and Man Utd will get it fight while we dither I hope I am wrong.

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  3. Big fran Guest

    Can't disagree with much of what you both say. Poch has not been backed appropriately but this window he has been given funds but not strengthened in the areas most necessary. Right bk, and a creative no 10 type player. Winks is a steady performer who could easily spend 10 years or so as a back up player but he is nowhere near good enough to build a side around and be a regular starter. He's no better than a Jonjo shelvey or noble. Sanchez struggles playing left side centre defender another area where we now lack options with whatever has gone on with Jan. Tanganga looked pretty solid there pre season but the problem being he didn't cost 42m I suppose..
    Poch is under serious pressure now he's in the new stadium, signed lo celso, sess and ndombele he's running out of excuses now. He's almost got too many options in centre mid now trying to shoe horn to many in lacking width. I predict an hammering to the goons..
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  4. Del Guest

    Yeah I pretty much agree with everything said and I haven’t been happy with the football we play for a while now. And as for poch well look at this stat..... he hasn’t won away since January and wait for it......he’s only won 4 games in his last 15!!! WOW like the article says is he magic????
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  5. Thomas Guest

    With 3 to 4 players looking to leave and worse still leave on a free, the squad will still be unsettled after the transfer window closes. Looks like a very tough season ahead and while we are touted as the team most likely to challenge Liverpool and Man City for title, I am more worried that we may drop out of Top 4.
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  6. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Well-Known Member

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    Yes lads - hard to find anything to disagree with in the above posts, and how depressing is it to have to write that. Briefly looked at the odds on a Newcastle win ( I ALWAYS check the opposition prices although I'm not a betting man - strange or what) in Saturday's paper and thought "there's cash for someone, we're certs for a chinning" and so it was. But dear me, what an abysmal show, once more. My favourite unfavourite player - that no. 11 guy who shall be nameless - did himself proud once more with his superb consistency, Sanchez looked a beginner, Winks looked so, so Wilkins-like, Kane was so, well, bloody awful (I'm tempted to say "once more" but should I ?) that I'm convinced he's either not fit or not interested any longer. Add to that the ridiculous (non) selections in the Verts, Toby and Eriksen sagas, the decline of Alli and Lloris and I see Big trouble brewing at The Lane and the fingers are beginning to point at Poch in growing numbers. Far cry from a 3 or 4 years ago - it pains to even think it but I reckon our short time as premier London side is over already. What a wasted opportunity - same as the CL Final when Liverpool produced one of their most anaemic displays and we didn't take advantage. It's Groundhog Season again.
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  7. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    There's something seriously wrong, looking at our three performances this season. We've done little, created few quality chances, been taken apart by City, fallen behind in all three games.
    There can be no justification for playing Sanchez left side CB, he's barely good enough right side.
    The trouble is that we've two holding players that have to do all the carrying, with the likes of Son, Moura and Lamela too far advanced to add any value when building a move. Sure Winks has his shortcomings, but he gets no help.
    Poor selection, bad, bad attitude throughout, no new signings to change things. A fecking mess and the worst home performance in more than 5 years.
    I used to watch this 1-9-1 dross from visiting teams so much in that time, but we could break them down, when Dele and Ce were inventive and influential and HK WAS a proper centre forward.
    WTF is going on here?
    Last edited: August 26, 2019
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  8. Guesty Guest

    Kane needs to step up and talk to Pochy about the starting 11
    no Vertonghen.....no Eriksen....is simply madness.

    Our only real purchase.....Ndombele....I'll give a chance to....before I start putting him in the Zakora bracket!!

    But sorry.....if we any top 6 (not even top 4) ambitions we cannot start with Moura, Winks, Sanchez and KWP.
    Sissoko would be in there as well but he probably needs a run at RB

    Sissoko, Toby, Verts, Rose
    Lo Celso, Dier, Ndombele
    Kane, Son
  9. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, frustrating loss. We deserved at least a point out of our dominance the entire game. Well, we got one point last week when we did not deserve it.

    Two years ago we had a better team? Nah, we did not have to play the teams that parked the bus in front then as often. Spurs have never been good against such a teams. We are not good upstairs to use flanks, our tallest forward just left the club. All Spurs can do is to get between the defending lines with short passes or to lob ball to Kane hoping the defender will make an error in the aerial defense. Well, Magpies did not make errors. Spurs did not get between theirs 5 and 4.

    We need an aggressive and inventive No. 10? We have one, his name is Dele. He has hamstring injury. His repeater hamstring is subject of concern, so in that regards we had a better No.10 two seasons ago. Moura is not a No.10. He FUed Sissoco pass from byline against an open net. Shiett happens, but should he scored, the conversation would be different..

    Winks is no good? I don't disagree. Harry is uncomfortable in the opponents penalty box and hesitate to enter it. Alright in our half he is. We have LoCelso. But he is not fit, spending his fitness in Brazil. We could use Ndobele, really.

    Now, the positives. KWP was great. Too bad he had injury, it may set him back.

    Gooners will not sit behind the ball. COYS!!!
  10. P reed Guest

    Still worried about spurporter he does seem to watch different games to me.But at least he is the only poch worshipper with the bottle to come on and make a comment.Spurs did not deserve a point as they did not create one clear chance and teams are allowed to defend well.Wait till Newcastle play at Anfield and Man City and get beat by 3or 4 before saying spurs were unlucky.If he thinks this team is superior to the one 2 years ago I have been going to the wrong games this year.I truly believe that the players are not responding to poch any more maybe we need a manager who convinces them that they can compete with the best.
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  11. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    We are not as good in breaking defenses, it has nothing to do with desire, lack thereof or anything else, like Poch. In that regard we are worse than Pool or City. We do it occasionally, while they do it consistently. That is the difference. That difference in measured in millions of pounds their squads worth over Spurs. Any little difference in player quality comes to to tens of millions.
    Do you think Klopp or Pep would do better than Poch if they were at Spurs? I don't think so. They are good at driving Ferrari. Spurs are the Vauxhall. But at the end of trip it is important to rich the destination.
  12. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    Forget the £millions spent by City and Pool, that's not the reason we lost yesterday. We just did not work hard enough when Newcastle had the ball. We stood off for the goal, plus the donkey that is Sanchez failed to mark Joelinton. He CANNOT play left side CB, period. Team selection, Poch's moaning cost us yesterday, no doubt.
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  13. burnt Well-Known Member

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    All is not well , that's for sure . That strong unity between management and squad is not there anymore and is plain to see . I could be talking through my arse here but I've a feeling this breakdown in relationship and thrust between management and players started with that ****in book . How did he ever think that was a good idea .

    Comparing the style of the team over the last 13 or 14 months to the team of 2 or so years ago is chalk and cheese . There's probably lots of different reasons for it as have been mentioned by plenty on here over that period but the only thing that matters now is can we get back to something like that again or is the Poch era in terminal decline . The squads looking a bit lobsided and if the lads that are running down their contracts leave then we've got a lot of work to do to turn this around even if we had buckets full of cash . We've put ourselves in a sticky situation right now and if it's not managed correctly which is unlikely because it hasn't been so far it could set us back in a big way . This is a really crucial period for our immediate future i.m.o .. We've already put ourselves on the backfoot by not fully capitalising on the foundations of the proper team and squad we had . Because of this the cracks were beginning to show over the last 18 months or so , now they're more like chasms then cracks . I honestly think we've missed the boat . Now it's more then likely going to get a lot uglier before it gets better ...
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  14. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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  15. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    It's on the decline and there's no getting back , Poch is a spent force.
    The squad he had he along with Levy has neglected.
    Poch can't scout and Levy won't pay all we've done is tread water and slowly got worse.
    Belief is a huge part of a team project the belief isn't there anymore , it's been running on fumes and is little more than going through the motions now.
    It's not gonna get better.

    As I put in the article what we're looking at now is a busted flush
  16. Big fran Guest

    Could also be a scenario where poch has lost the dressing room. Starting with leaving out the popular moura in CL final for contract rebel eriksen. Something a miss with Jan who is probably the most senior leader in the camp.
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  17. Thomas Guest

    I wouldn't be surprised if Pochettino has lost some of the players. When a manager starts being negative saying that he might have left if Spurs had won the UCL or that they should change his title to a coach, he's telling the players that he himself feel that there's not much to look forward to and that he's not expecting much success in terms of trophies.

    If the manager believe in the club, he will stay on and build on success and not make such comments to the media. If you are a player, you would be dumb not to know what your manager is thinking. Now whatever positive messages Pochettino tries to impart, they will be discounted by the players. Players who wants success will think of leaving.

    Pochettino is caught in a dilemma without Eriksen. On one hand, he's trying to cope for life without Eriksen and by not starting him against lesser opponents like Aston Villa and Newcastle only to eventually bring him on when we were behind. Against Man City, he knew he has no choice but to start him. Pochettino saying that players don't start the match because there are better alternatives is simply ****!

    We will pay for not having backups for Eriksen and Kane. I don't think it's true that you cannot get strikers who want to play backup or are willing to challenge Kane. We are deceiving ourselves. We are simply not willing to pay enough for prospective players to compromise.
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  18. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    How many of these problems of Pochs own making ?

    How many other managers have these monthly tiffs with players and behave like a sulky brat over it, for them having the audacity to want Top 4 wages after delivering Top 4 finishes?

    I wrote at the time when we signed Sanchez why we had broke our club record transfer fee on a CB we simply didn't really need. Since then he's been shoehorned in at the cost of breaking up the best CB pairing I've seen in my lifetime at the club.
    This has been the cause of us going from an air tight unit that gives the team confidence to express itself to the nervy error prone shambles it's reverting back to.
    It's not only effected the balance of the CBs it's also effected the full backs and the keeper.

    Too many bang average buys when we needed 1 or 2 quality signings to compliment what we had.

    Every summer has been a huge let down and not once has what you'd expect to be done before every window did they evaluate what we were weak at and aggressively go into the market to correct it.
    There's no plan , no what the squad needs just who can we pick up on a cheap or can we screw over for a player regardless if we need them or not.

    We currently have 3 LBs bought 1 that's injured and inexperienced , not sure if Vic has gone yet but we now have 5 CMs with only N'Dombele looking like he has any quality on the ball , we have 1 experienced RB who even when he plays is a brain dead liability but doesn't get a game then 1 inexperienced RB (who's now 1st choice by default of another liability CB who was being shoehorned in there getting injured) who's also now injured too, the merry go round of 3 CBs the 2 better 1s taking time outs on the naughty step at the expense of Shoehorning Sanchez in.
    Then we have the Benny hill themed no 10 role that 6 players including Kane want to play that quite frankly none of them do a particularly good job at , in fact Benny hill themed is probably too energetic and creative movement wise.
    We have Alli the rude boy pretender turns up for 5 games a season , CE who is our most creative player but so easily drifts in n out of games probably more down to bemusement at watching Coco the clown taking 6 touches when 1 wouldve been sufficient before scything down an opponent, throw into the mix neither Strikers or Wingers Son & Moura who have brief spells where they look dangerous (usually when Kane isn't playing) and finally Harry the potent Striker who for no credible reason wants to be a no10 and is supported in this completely insane plan.
    As a back up Striker we have yet more academy potential in Parrot who id be very suprised to make any impact at all while we have the Brady bunch putting pressure on each other for the no10 spot.
    And this was after a supposed good window , this squad is a shambles !

    And it's no wonder that having slugged our way through all of last season that the wheels are starting to come off with such obvious imbalance and poor tactical set up.
    There's no width , no pace of play/pass/movement , you can't break down defences without it unless your gonna lump it in which embarrassingly it seems our 2 naughty CBs are the only guys that can cross a ball in the entire set up.

    It's a complete mess , Poch has gone from having a set inflexible team to a Circus for the same outcome just without the entertainment a circus would bring.
    Last edited: August 27, 2019
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  19. Crimble123 Guest

    We’re all hurting but I don’t think it’s particularly helpful to condemn Poch as a “busted flush”. He’s overseen our most successful (ok, without silverware) period in the last 35 years despite the undeniable financial disadvantage we’ve had versus our rivals.

    I’m not sure if your answer is to sack Poch, tear everything up and start again but that is what it sounds like. In my opinion, he has earned the right to try to turn this malaise around given his over achievements since he arrived at the club. Just under 3 months ago he guided us to a European Cup final - the first in our history. Regardless of the fortune we got, it actually happened and we showed a hell of a lot of character to get there.

    However, as burnt has said, all is clearly not well in terms of harmony amongst the squad.

    The squad turnover over the summer was insufficient. Poch told us last season that a number of his squad were unhappy at the start of the 2018/19 season and were angling for a move out of the club. The group were kept together for “one last push” but then the summer came, and their moves away never materialised - either because our asking prices were too high or because there weren’t any suitors.

    There’s only so long you can keep an overachieving group together, hearing the same messages from the coaching staff while being underpaid. In the absence of adequate financial reward, the only thing that will keep players is winning silverware and we have failed to get over the line under Poch’s tenure. So I don’t blame players like Eriksen for wanting away, especially when the club are not adequately investing in bolstering the squad to move us forward. Levy seems happy with consolidation rather than progression and that may well result in regression. With a stadium to pay for, maybe we shouldn’t be surprised, but then you can’t defend the sky high ticket prices fans are being asked to pay.

    Over the last 3 transfer windows, we’ve added 3 players to our squad (excluding Clarke who was sent back and can’t even get a game for Leeds). Over that time, we’ve lost Vorm, Trippier, Dembele, Onomah, N’Koudou, Llorente and Janssen, with Wanyama also likely to leave this week. Perhaps Aurier and Eriksen too. Ok, none of the players that have left thus far we are particularly sad to see leave (bar Dembele who was beset by injuries) and some were surplus to requirements, but most of these players contributed something last season and have not been replaced.

    Poch isn’t helping himself with his moany press conferences and that negativity surely transmits to the squad but he’s not the main problem. Despite the Ndombele transfer fee, we have not adequately invested in the squad. Dybala might have been that statement of intent we needed but it didn’t come off and it still would not have addressed the real problem positions at full back where we are hopelessly under stocked. KWP and Rose (for all his endeavour) are adequate at best but they won’t provide the attacking threat down the flanks that we need and push us on to a title challenge.

    We are where we are now and with the likelihood of Toby and Eriksen leaving for nothing (or far below market value) over the next 12 months, perhaps Jan too, a more significant rebuild is inevitably coming. The club have been negligent in allowing this to happen rather than addressing it by clearing out those players who weren’t fully committed when we could control it and receive fees for those players.

    Last summer (2018) was the time that the rejuvenation of the squad was required. To operate like we do (underpaying overachieving personnel) means that some degree of staff turnover is required to keep things fresh and maintain that hunger. We could have brought in young gifted players like James Maddison, who we tracked for a long time. But we didn’t.

    That is the root of this malaise. And I’m not sure I can blame Poch for that. You can blame tactics but the players fielded against Newcastle should have been good enough to get the job done or at least put up a bigger fight than they did. The staleness isn’t a result of tactics, it’s a result of stagnation and demotivation. I also understand that motivating the players is a large part of Poch’s job but how many times can the same person give exactly the same group of players the same motivational pep talks in the hope of a best case scenario of coming 3rd in the league?
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  20. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    He's spent just shy of 400million in his tenure with us , it's hardly peanuts is it?

    People act like he's turned water into wine.

    He inherited most of the squad he has today and has been given funds to improve it from a 5th place side to a top 4 side all whilst the regular top 4 sides have been in a massive transition.

    He's been a good fitness coach and had a purple patch which was fun , now it's just boring and gritty.

    The squad he has now how it's aged and his inability to improve it will not recapture the form of seasons past when quite rightly he was getting plaudits.

    Between him n Levy they nallsed up yet another promising false dawn
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