Further costly set backs

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Felon82, August 14, 2018.

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  1. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Well imagine my shock , it was originally touted to open for the start of the 18/19 season and now its been confirmed the Stadium won't be ready for the Liverpool match.....

    It won't even be ready for the Prioritised sport it was built for the NFL game....

    Not another project that's taking an age to complete surely ?

    The club is haemorrhaging money on this complete debacle.
    News of secret payments to the FA for extended use of Wembley at extra cost to us basically sum up ENICs modus operandi.

    Stadium costs and the project has spiralled completely out of control and there's still not even an actual opening date.
    The absolute earliest mention is the 28th October (for no less than the City game to bed us in nicely) and then there's rumours of it being as far away as 2019.

    Of course huge projects hit snags and there will be some form of compensation but not for all of it this cannot be seen as anything other than a hugely expensive mismanagement of the highest order.

    By some of the more real photos (not the PR edited ones) this stadium looks months from completion.
    As I said in its infancy do/did we need all this retractable pitch and cheese room nonsense??
    Surely a proper football purpose built stadium with increased capacity would've been not only cheaper & more personal but deliverable on-time and could've still been state of the art??

    Those that oppose overspending whenever transfers and wages are mentioned warning of Ghosts of Leeds & Portsmouth surely must be opposed to this monstrous over spend that dwarfs any debt that both the aforementioned suffered combined??

    We're now trying to sort out with the FA & UEFA how or if we can use separate venues for competitions (this will all be at cost)

    How does this look to NFL partners?
    Already the potential sale of Wembley had the potential to make our own NFL adjustments redundant and now we're taking our 1st agreed 'opener' there.

    How does this look to players and what effect is there?
    Not only do we have to go back to the soulless bowl that is Wembley but we now could be trying to bed into a new stadium anywhere between October and New year's , this could be slap bang during the Xmas schedule/Into the January window/Knock out stages of CL etc it's yet another unwanted , unnecessary distraction/obstacle.

    I'm glad the THST have gone for a refund for season ticket holders it's a complete farce to charge the increases they have, to set unachievable/unrealistic deadlines and feed misinformation out about the stadium works.
    This wouldn't have just crept out of nowhere anyone who's ever worked in or had involvement in large building/project delivery could not only see it was naively optimistic to open on time but could see it wouldn't even from the strategic leaked photos and videos.

    To add this latest fiasco to our non event of a Transfer Window and things are looking rather embarrassing, unorganized and over all incompetent from the powers that be at the club.

    The only glimmer of hope is that Poch can inspire some sort of galvanized team effort through adversity because it seems currently our ownership couldn't do much more to throw a spanner in the works for them.

    The sheer ineptitude and contempt of Levy & Enic never ceases to amaze!
  2. KevMeist Guest

    Whatever you think of Levy....once construction starts....he is getting updates from the builder as to completion dates (hardly Levy's fault for believing them. I'm sure that Mace reassured him multiple times s to the completion date). The construction time seemed short right up front to me for a building job as complex and large as this stadium is) so I am not all surprised that it is running long.

    What was Levy to do with season ticket sales...just leave it all to the last minute?
    Mick likes this.
  3. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    You cannot be serious that Levy is some sort of naive victim of dodgey builders?

    If you and I could see from the off (and I presume you like me haven't personally been privvy to have seen inside the stadium) that it was extremely unrealistic then how comes Levy or anyone at the club didn't?

    Like I said this hasn't crept up this was quite obvious and with inside knowledge would've been even clearer.
  4. Nureyev Guest

    For goodness sake calm down, everyone! You can be sure that Levy is doing all in his power to hasten completion. These things happen in the big wide world. Of course the situation is far from ideal but it is what it is. Spurs fans should put their trust in Levy to push for as quick a completion as possible and ignore the noise from those who do not have Spurs' interests at heart.
  5. KevMeist Guest

    I never said that they were dodgy. BUT, even in small construction jobs...often they suffer delays. The new stadium is obviously a very large construction project. Projections are made as to completion dates, but many things come between the project start and the completion (especially with the size of crowds that will pack this stadium).
  6. Glint New Member

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    I'm no fan of Levy but that's a bit sensationalised. It's embarrassing for sure that they've had to postpone the move but the option to use Wembley for longer if necessary was always there and had to be activated before the end of August, it was no 'secret' payment or otherwise. An Option is a financial (or similar) instrument that can be utilised up to a pre-determined time, after which it is worthless. All they have done is exercised the option before it expired. Pretty sensible.

    The crux of it all will be the refunds due to season ticket holders who should - quite rightly - be refunded the increases they have had to pay for the 'privilege' of sitting in the new bowl - which they now won't be! Let's see how Levy & co handle that. If they don't do the 'right thing' there will be hell to pay for sure.
  7. Glint New Member

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    And no sooner had I typed that they've announced refunds:

    In an official statement, the club said: “All those who purchased season tickets at the new stadium will be credited 1/19th of the price you paid for your 2018/19 season ticket, for each fixture concerned.

    “Full refund amounts for both Liverpool and Cardiff City will be placed in your eticket account automatically in the coming days.”
    Spurporter likes this.
  8. KevMeist Guest

    While placing a monetary value in season ticket holders "accounts" might be viewed as a refund by Spurs...I suspect that season ticket holders won't see it quite the same way. I'm not a season ticket holder (as I live in Florida (but was born in Tottenham))...if I am wrong in my assumption that this is NOT reallay a "refund"...please correct me.
  9. Maurice New Member

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    This is the largest private financed building project in Europe at the moment. There will always be delays and to be honest what they have done in the timescale so far is fantastic. This is not like Arsenal building the Emirates ,when that happened the entire value of the assets on the field would not have come close to the cost of the build. Levy is no fool he knows the TV money is a good security and with the sudden wild increase in player values following Neymar transfer he has got even luckier He would arguably only have to sell a handful of players to cover the entire cost if he wanted and there is no sign of those values falling in the future. We have not spent much money in any transfer window to be honest which makes mopo's results even more impressive. Donna Marie came out and stated that the actual stadium costs is still only £400 MIL the entire project is costing nearly the billion but out of that he wil be getting a all year round use of stadium plus the hotel and accommodation and supermarket . Levy is not doing this to lose money and he won't be. It will be finished when it's finished and the payment for the extra games is no secret and was a option that was given to spurs as a standby as a build of this size is difficult to predict. As for unfairness as some people seem to think we'll to be honest you would have to have a neutral covered venue so same pitch and no weather influence and every Prem game involving all teams would have to be played there in front of a same size neutral crowd so there was no possibility of any perceived advantage. People have to get real if FA wants to encourage new stadia and improved facilities then it has to be flexible. In the future if any club wants to build a new stadia and not relocate miles away then the fa will have to be flexible or clubs will never use all that TV money to improve their stadiums. This stadium will be the best and just as the FA use spurs training facilities I have no doubt they will also use the spurs stadium for internationals once Wembley is sold .
    Spurporter likes this.
  10. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Reading most of the responses to this article is a thoroughly depressing experience; so many people who presumably want Spurs to win things, and presumably get excited by victories and good performances (occasionally!) still bend over backwards to justify the utter incompetence displayed by ENIC in this debacle. The club has taken much justified stick for its on-field 'Spursyness', but now the off-field machine, which is always depicted by Levy's admirers as the envy of the football world, has been exposed as less Silver Ghost than Trabant, and yet STILL we're admonished to trust that Levy knows best, as if we're particularly backward kiddies (and perhaps we are, to judge from the number of people whose defence of the status quo is essentially 'always keep your hand on nurse, for fear of finding someone worse'). Pochettino will certainly soar in my estimation if he can fashion a successful campaign from a start like this!
    Felon82 likes this.
  11. antony Active Member

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    Your line "interest at heart" Nureyev hits the nail on the head for me! Its because of our interest at heart, love, loyal support, passion and desire for our beloved club to do well and potentially return to the glory, glory Tottenham Hotspur days after these 4 fantastic progressive years under Poch is why we are so frustrated at the way Enic have performed recently and potentially undoing/disrupting and reversing all the promise as a result!
  12. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    Levy is not competent in stadia construction. You are correct, Chesnutboy. Why should he be? He has builder contracts as protection. So far, based on what I read, everything goes as per scenario possible and all the fall back options are there.

    The building failed the Safety Test. It is an indication of the unforeseen design problem. The corrections and enforcements will be put forth by designers and will be executed by the builders. As is the new stadium is not going to get Safety Certification. I do not think that all stands are affected by failure, we will know. I'd rather have a delay now than to get one day a feeling that the stand is moving away from under me.

    I am glad that Liverpool game will be at Wembley. It is now being a familiar pitch for the lads. No sweat of new stadium opening on them in such an important tie.
    Last edited: August 15, 2018
    Remy Uwilin likes this.
  13. Big fran Guest

    I'm not DLs best fan by a long chalk but got to agree. To be a couple of month or so out on a job of this magnitude is nothing in the grand scheme of creating a world class stadium that will increase match day revenue by more than double and allow more fans to attend games and bring about naming rights. In hindsight it should have been a much simpler project minus cheese rooms and NFL pitches etc. Should maybe have flattened the old lane on one instead of playing a season at reduced capacity.
    But credit to the club and Levy at building on the original footings of the old home rather than taking an easier option of building on a completely different site as other clubs have sacrificing their history and leaving their spiritual home.
    Spurporter likes this.
  14. antony Active Member

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    100% credit to Enic for realising the importance of "home"! A project of this magnitude always had the potential to falter in some small way, all the more reason to placate the fans who help pay for JL's 4 Mega Yachts to be given a boost by a couple of stela signings this Summer!

    Obviously I have a major issue with our lack of improvement during the course of this window and maybe its exaggerated because I am an old fart who hoped (naively perhaps) to see my beloved Tottenham Hotspur rise once again before I croak!

    Your right! Leave it!!
  15. Cheshuntboy Guest

    I guess there's little if any common ground between traditionalists and modernisers where Spurs present and future are concerned, and I'm very sorry to say that there's not much doubt who's winning the war, if not the argument - it's over thirty years since Keith Burkinshaw's parting shot that 'there used to be a football club over there', and God knows what he'd make of the Cheese Shop and the retractable pitch - best not to think about it.
    The club, the ground, the city, the players, and most (but not all) of the supporters have changed out of all recognition since I first visited WHL in the 1960s, and the connection with N17 is geographical, not visceral now, but does that mean that the balance sheet mentality which is clearly Levy and Lewis's has to be adopted by the supporters as well? I suppose it's inevitable that the absence of tangible success on the field will cause people to look for comfort elsewhere, but I'm just too interested in football, and too cynical about business in general and ENIC in particular, to find solace in sponsorship deals or naming rights rather than silverware, and if swimming against the tide inevitably leaves the swimmer washed-up, so be it - I'd choose Burkinshaw's philosophy over Levy's every time!
    Felon82 likes this.
  16. antony Active Member

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    Sorry, I cannot help myself! Are they not one of the same thing/goal! Of course everything evolves, some for the better, some for the worst. Cheese bars or not do they only not succeed as a result of the success on the pitch?

    As I have typed this I have realised what a naïve fool I am! The "ain't what it use to be" has now extended to "it's no longer relevant"! Football is just a day out for those that can afford to keep shareholders happy and the twats like us who stand on the terraces are just the dressing to the lobster salads being served!

    Roy Keane you are my hero!

    But I say this to the band of loyal supporters. We are the majority. the atmosphere that is contagious and therefore profitable, So it is US who are the power, the decision makers and if at any point WE decide there is need for change, then we have the ability to make it!!
  17. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    NFL revenue may, reportedly, exceed the one from football (EPL, Cups, UEFA). I am not sure about Cheese Room, but I want Levy to make as much money as he possibly can. Enic is the only Sugar Daddy we can get, realistically. The more money Enic make the more acquisitions will Spurs get, the higher wages will be offered.
    After Bale sale I started to believe that revenues will be re-invested. So far I am fine with what they do. They.Don't.Pocket.It.
    Last edited: August 15, 2018
    Mick likes this.
  18. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    This is assuming that any of this money is going to go towards our 1st team, there's been no mention from the club how this whole NFL thing benefits us whatsoever.
    The extra outlay on Screens , Medical & Changing rooms and Retractable pitches etc for bringing in 2 games a season and making our whole build and delivery overall more complex is it worth it?
    Like I say unless this whole 1bn new stadium project is used to pump heavy profits back into the 1st team we've paid for and been sold a dud.
    ENIC are an investment company if anyone thinks they're doing all this for the fans benefits theyre badly mistaken , your seat , drink , food .... All increased.
    The extra events for ENIC are having their cake and eating it, they're using Spurs overall money and brand to make sideline profit for them not for us.
    Meanwhile I can already see after 10 years of run up austerity wel now be enjoying the club's 10 year post Austerity policy.
    This is a carbon copy of the Goons Buisness model , look how patient they were with the whole debacle , look at where they are now despite the huge increase in turnover.....
    How long will we continue to accept and be happy with basically saying before we start any season we can't compete ???
  19. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    We're not getting any refunds Felon, merely credits towards the price of the tickets that we will have to buy. Checked it today with the ticket office. For me, as we clicked for Club Wembley last year, I'll likely pay more for the Scousers game...… you couldn't make it up!
  20. palmover Active Member

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    The big problem is that Enic do not care about winning trophies, that is why i would like someone who does, buys the club. My recent frustrations come from the fact that spurs were in a good position with a group of quality players that needed two quality additions and Levy went out and bought ****. Imagine spurs had Mane and Sallah even botch couldn't mess that up. What makes it worse Kane, Ce and Dele cost spurs 16m and levy didn't back them up with two quality buys. Nowadays you make more money from TV and sponsorship than through the gates so building a winning team is better than building a new stadium as sponsors want to be associated with trophy winners. I'll take the Abramovitch model over the Levy model every time.

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