Failure to learn or improve

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Felon82, October 28, 2019.

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  1. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Yesterdays result was like ground hog day under Pochettino and the project.
    If this is ahead of schedule then how far away is the actual end game????

    Repeatedly he has said we need to work hard , learn , improve.......

    Well after 5 seasons I fail to see the hard work , what's been learnt and what's improved?

    This was prime game management failure from Pochettino , it even started before kick off with his ridiculous need to swap players around for underperforming favourites of his.
    His shoehorn approach to team selection once again upsetting any sort of cohesion/consistency/balance to the side.

    The full back situation anyone with an ounce of football knowledge can see its bleak (Why wasn't this addressed???) but Pochettino had a plan to play Foyth RB yet hasn't , had a plan to play KWP there but that flopped till finally sticking with the only senior RB he actually has who is the biggest liability I've ever witnessed at the club.

    Then on the opposite wing we have Danny Rose who is beginning to make BAE look like he was Roberto Carlos.
    His effort, play and all round contribution has just become laboured predictable and quite frankly an insult to the shirt (this also hasn't come out of nowhere but after the failure to sell Poch has drafted him in as his No1 LB?)

    Sanchez & Jan/ Toby & Sanchez/ Toby & Jan/ Toby Sanchez Jan .....
    That's the CB merry go round

    We've had to wait for Lloris to break his arm (giving another goal away) for him to be surgically removed from the 1st team , the meekest captain calamity of all time to finally get Gazza in who is proving to be so much more reliable just doing basics like catching crosses , commanding his box , kicking it to a team mate.... Yet we all know the genius that is Poch will have Lloris back in a heart beat.

    That's the organised defensive structure and there seems to be a wonder why we are leaking goals?

    We move into Midfield , Sissoko & this obsession with Winks (I'd argue that Mason & Bentaleb had more about them than these 2) leaving N'Dombele benched in a Big Away game behind these 2 is just a complete joke.

    Further up the pitch CE & Alli 2 of Pochettinos serial underachievers and missing acts who are drafted in and just left to meander around at their leisure while the game completely by passes them (and their Master) at the expense of Moura and I'm not his biggest fan Lamela but after a good midweek performance was just dropped entirely only in Poch Logic.
    Lo Celso is in the infancy of his 5 year bedding in period being given 3 minutes of normal time as to not stress him out because the task ahead of him to replace the hiding dead ball specialist must be hugely daunting.

    Son seems to be the only Player that has an actual clue what to do going forward , Kane instinctively gets goals but it has nothing to do with team cohesion or play.

    And with nothing else of any worth in the rest of the squad is it any wonder why we are such a shambles ?

    This is completely on Poch and this is just Squad Management/selection.

    Tactics are completely non existent , we don't work hard , we don't press , we don't attack , we can't defend , we're not compact , we're not expansive , we're not creative , possession is only kept in totally non dangerous areas and is negative at best sloppy and slow as the norm.

    After being gifted the early goal how many times have we watched this same type result play out?
    And not only that how many times have you thought well do something then Poch to alter what's clearly unfolding Infront of our eyes?
    Yet everytime he's found wanting , reacting after the event , never actually influencing anything , never making changes to the set up which is clearly not working or is being torn apart.

    This is all totally on Pochettino and what is now his shambolic inflexible illogical management style that has not only failed but has been worked out by everyone.

    The results of the last year speak for themselves it cannot be ignored or glossed over any longer, the guy is now just an arrogant liability.
  2. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Yes to all of it, but when's Levy actually going to face the fact that the five-year breathing space given to him by Pochettino's plausible impression of a top manager has finally ended? ZZ and OGS seem to be restoring some semblance of normality to Real Madrid and United, so it seems unlikely that either club will be trying to poach Poch anytime soon and even if it wouldn't necessarily cost the whole thirty-two million to sack him, it certainly won't be five weeks money and a good reference - several years' NFL payments, certainly. Levy might have a surprise appointment up his sleeve (though two of his previous ones, Hoddle for Graham and Ramos for Jol, weren't exactly glowing successes), but I fear this saga of decline has got longer to run, maybe until we're out of the CL, the FA Cup, and are in the relegation zone - January then (I think I'm joking!).
    Gordon Mc and Bazza47 like this.
  3. palmover Active Member

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    Spurs have the players to play any number of formations yet Mp hasn't worked out the one that suits his style of play.
    His squad management has cost spurs 100m in transfers lost as Ce and Dier should have been sold when good money was offered for them.
    It would be better if the current talent within the squad was managed by a manager who will improve them football wise rather than fitness wise.
    Personally i think MP needs to leave for this team to have any chance of top4 and reach their full potential.
    Gordon Mc and Bazza47 like this.
  4. P reed Guest

    Must agree with Felons comments totally.I was pissed off that United won on Saturday. Because that means they won’t be helping us unload Pochetino.I watch his after match comments and can not understand what he is saying .He is only bettered in his garbage by the arsenal joker which is small consolation. I await his team selection for this weekend which will probably include about 6 changes but Ericson and Ali will start.I have worked out from the comments I can understand that de celso will be ready for a full debut in about 3 months time and sessegnon needs to have a few months on the training pitch to get to know his colleagues and ndombele needs to rest after a game because he is tired..All joking apart this is the impression he is giving to our rivals who must be rubbing their hands in glee. Didn’t Roy Keane get it right on Sunday especially about Ali being more interested in being a model.Finally there does seem to be a dearth of poch fans coming on to tell us how wrong we are . Come on spurporter when are you going to post or are you now embarrassed about your comments about Liverpool going backwards and us finishing above them
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  5. Dan Guest

    I've been neither Poch-out nor Poch-must-stay-in but I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that Poch will never be an elite manager due to his combination of stubbornness, naive coaching philosophy & excessive loyalty to under-performing & want-away players, and his inability to adapt/change his tactics to stave off failure. Sure Pep has the same stubborn attitude about him but he is ruthless in team selection and identifying and fixing the deficiencies in his squad. I don't want to lay it all at Poch's feet but he/Levy have known for many months that we are incredibly poor at fullback positions, have no DM options, and lack creativity/ball retention & progression in most of the midfield players. Faced with the prospect of not-even a Top-6 finish, you'd be foolish picking CE, Rose, Auerier when there are other players who deserve a run-out or major minutes - Moura, Lo Celso/Ndombele, Foyth, Davies, Sessegnon at some point, Tanganga, Parrott, maybe Skipp/KWP. Believing that new players need lengthy "bedding-in" periods is a luxury we can't afford at this point. And, as fans, we become excessively attached to academy youth products (e.g., Winks) who are clearly squad players at best. I wish we could just let ManUtd take Poch off our hands but this will probably not happen. Both Brendan Rodgers & Eddie Howe look to be better coaches to me at this point than what we have. One of the other threads pointed out that we were finishing Top-6 going back to 09/10 so there is every expectation we could stay in European competition with the right coaching staff and player acquisition strategy. Right now, we are just drifting without purpose.
    Gordon Mc, Bazza47 and Felon82 like this.
  6. Poch needs to settle on his best starting 11 and play them continually in the league or cup. Guys like ce are currently poison and should be benched. Actually, don’t bother showing up may be an improvement right now.

    rose has gone completely off form.

    Dier should play behind sossoko and ndombele to fortify the middle. Toby and Jan still form a good central partnership.

    still hard to figure if Lucas is a good 90-minute player or best off the bench.
  7. Ian Stanford New Member

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    Why does it have to be that after every defeat we seem to know that all we need to do is get rid of MP, vilify DL and constantly slag off the same five or six players. Opinions are what the game is made up of but its not a prerequisite that we have the right to win every single game. If you honestly thought that Deli, Erickson, Aurier, Loris etc were playing badly on purpose I could understand your comments but not one single player would do this. It's all down to a belief and confidence and whilst I understand everyone's despair at another lacklustre performance, sacking the manager and stringing Levi up from the nearest tree............ Really????
    If like Roy Keane you'd prefer to publicly bury a young mans career with inane comments as he seemed to know all the answers and lets not forget, he's paid to be controversial and was nothing more than a career ending thug himself.
    He said that Deli should concentrate more on his game and less on his image............
    There you go, that's Deli all sorted !!!!!
    Perhaps we should appoint Mr Keane as our new manager as he's had a fantastic track record managing teams.
    I don't know what all the answers are to this slump but i'm bloody certain that getting rid off Pooch would only move us back to the bad old days.
  8. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Well, you say that you don't know all the answers, but you don't actually suggest any of them, do you? Don't criticise Pochettino, don't criticise Levy, don't criticise Alli, don't criticise anyone, seemingly. We're not going through a blip, or a temporary loss of form - we're obviously in a full-blown crisis, and doing nothing, assuming that Pochettino will suddenly recover the mojo which has been missing for the whole of 2019, is not an option, unless you're happy with the mid-table mediocrity which we supposedly left behind when 'The Project' began all those years ago.
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  9. Flawless Guest

    Do you suggest any answers, Cheshuntboy? How to solve this full-blown crisis?
  10. Ian Stanford New Member

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    I’ve just tried to understand your reply by ready it back several times ????? NO I don’t know all the answers and that’s why I didn’t give any !!!! But yours appears to be sack and slack all and sundry as I said the game is all about opinions and if yours solve everything and bring back wonderful free flowing football back I’ll eat my words and wholeheartedly apologise but in my “opinion” I don’t think it’s the way forward and I don’t like some chuff like Keane telling me that he’s got the answer either.
  11. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Getting rid of a manager who's clearly run out of ideas and inspiration would be a start - next question, please?
  12. Cheshuntboy Guest

    'The game is all about opinions', but people who criticise the current regime and the under-performing players aren't allowed theirs? Isn't that what you're saying, or have I misunderstood your deep and complex argument?
  13. Flawless Guest

    Sweet! Have you thought about the 2nd step yet?
  14. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Roy Keane may not have had the best managerial career but undoubtedly he had the right mindset of a winner , he captained one of the most successful English sides of all time to countless Titles/Cups etc
    I'd say his opinion on what it takes to be a top player (when I say top player I mean 1 that has won all to win in club football not just scored a brace once against Huddersfield or the likes) should be taken on board and respected.

    For what it's worth I totally agreed with Keane on not only Alli and his half hearted lackluster play these days but also on his Chalk n Cheese comments comparing Pools full backs and ours.
    Any other way of looking at it is sheer delusional imo.

    The whole problem with Spurs and how it's ran to what transpires on the pitch and in turn is supported by fans with some sort of inferiority complex is that winning doesnt matter, in fact that nearly doing something should be celebrated more in some way.
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  15. P reed Guest

    Ian Stanford thinks if we get rid of pochetino we will go back to old days we’ll let me tell him we are already there.Our worst finish in the last ten years was 6 th we are now 10th and will probably go lower at the weekend.He says Roy Keane is just a thug and is just controversial but you are talking about one of the best competitors the league has seen and someone who never gave less than his best.His comments were honest and I agree with them it’s a pity that more of the media hangers on did not have the same honesty.How can anyone not see that poch and levy are the cause of the sudden drop off because of their disasters in the transfer windows.Even when we have bought we seem to choose disasters 3 centre forwards who could not hit a barn door and millions invested on the worst full back I have seen at the club ie Aurier plus a couple of wide players who hardly played.Who chose these players or are you telling me that poch had nothing to do with these . Even this window we buy someone who is injured and yet to play and two other players who according to poch need 18 months to be any good.How do we make it better Sack pochetino spend proper money in the transfer window in January unload the trouble makers and give Mourino a ring before January so he can look at the squad before the transfer window
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    I think that Pochettino's time at Spurs is over; Poch is not in a position to give to the team the right motivations; all teams around know how we play...and we do not have a plan b. I hope Eriksen goes out asap and see Lo Celso in the pitch alongwith Ndombele and Sessegnon. We need freshness! As Ever COYS!
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  17. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    890 we vent our frustration on this fanzine, we have largely similar views on the way things are, and a few alternative opinions....'s a view from "Concerned of East Upper"..

    1) There will be no change of ownership. You don't create what DL has, only to walk away now. So status quo there.

    2) These past 10 months, with very minor exceptions, we have been shite. Stand out players who have not been good enough - for me - Lloris, Aurier, Rose, Eriksen, Dele. Sanchez and Foyth not great either. I'm sure there are a few others.

    3) The Manager. Just consider his constant tinkering with the team. That makes no sense, none. Team selection on Sunday was wrong, but that's nothing new. As for this bulls**t about settling in the new players, ffs we are in dire straights, get them in and now, let them build fitness and integrate now.

    4) Some player specifics. I watch Rose and Dele closely each game now, far more than I used to. They have been cringeworthy. Rose cannot defend to save his life. Compare Robertson to Rose, 8/10 versus 4/10, at best. Dele - what is he playing at.

    5) Those about to leave - CE/JV/TA - never start CE again until he leaves - he's been shite for more than a year. Toby and Jan - I think they're trying, but older, so not so hot.

    With DL in charge and him struggling not to spend the severance pay because it's not in his DNA, it's getting beyond a joke. I think MP has passed his Best Buy date. He talks in riddles, selects poorly, doesn't react to situations quickly enough. It's time for a change. Who? Not a clue, but it's all very, very stale now so stop this free-fall please.

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  18. Ian Stanford New Member

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    I'm so sorry that you don't understand, as you say "my deep and complex argument" so I'll try and make it something you can understand as at least you tried to get a grasp by asking me "is that what i'm saying".
    Getting the manager sacked wont (in my opinion) solve your immediate problem you've been talking about.
    Getting rid of DL wont solve the problem (in my opinion) that you've been talking about.
    Getting rid of all the players you've been bad mouthing (in my opinion) wont solve the problems you've been talking about.
    and quite frankly listening to a player who has deliberately snapped a mans leg ending his career with no remorse to this day still sickens me however brilliant and inspirational he was for his wonderful club and country, yet I haven't said he's not entitled to his opinion just that I for one wont be agreeing with him.
    I prefer to support and love the club of my choice by not airing this **** to every Gooner loving fan out there.
    but as I said, if you can whip everybody up into that hate fuelled spiral and get us back to where you want us to be,........... crack on. (PS in my opinion.)
    I await your diatribe of I'm right and your wrong reply.
  19. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Let's think - Mourinho if he can stomach working for Levy, Benitez if he can stomach working for Levy, Rodgers if he can stomach working for Levy. It's a bit like Groucho Marx and the golf club really - who wants a manager with so little self-respect that he'd be willing to work for Levy? Perhaps we're stuck with Pochettino until ENIC decide to cash-in, so it could be a very long wait indeed.
  20. P reed Guest

    I accept that all the suggestions we have come up with may not work Ian Stanford but that means we stick the manager who is tactically challenged until when??? Our lack of taking chances is why we are now heading to the lower reaches now .We had a chance to buy a very good midfielder last year but pochetino said we didn’t need anyone the same thing he said last week and Leicester snapped up the bargain of the transfer window.How can you possibly support some one who says this squad is good enough and does not need strengthening

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