Clinical treatment: lacking the trait of a true 'top club'

Discussion in 'Featured' started by Josh Bolton, March 8, 2018.

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  1. burnt Well-Known Member

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    It's has to be taken in context tho , that's my point , Dier is also mentioned in your article above and he never looks quick ... There are plenty of players that clock a very high top speed that don't look particularly fast because like a modern tractor or a 1 lit car , they can all be quick but it's the time it takes to get into top gear that's equally or more important ... Sissoko and Dier and the likes would have no chance in a race against a lot of the other speedsters even tho their top speed would match or even marginally better some of the others ... They'd be left for dead at the start ... All these stats can be so misleading if they're not kept in context ... It's a bit like looking at the league table at the moment , one could come up with the opinion that Man City are the best team at defending in the league , they have to be because they've conceeded less goals then everyone else but the reality is Man City have one of the poorest defences in the top 6 ... Go figure ... Context .. That's my opinion on it anyway ...


     
  2. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    So when we bought Sissoko, for what felt like an obscene £30m at the time, it was at least to acquire the stand out player for the French in Euro 2016. I saw him as a powerful, quick, offensive player, rightly or wrongly. I still view him as such.

    I never watched him closely at the Euro's. I do now however, and for me I'm not getting what I expected, based on what, to be fair, wasn't a lot. Mind you if I'd asked a Barcodes fan they'd have said good riddance.

    So now that I watch him closely, what I expected to get is not what I'm seeing or getting. His assists over a long time have been rare, his goals even rarer. So the manager likes him, other managers also, so what do I know.

    What I do know is that, given his apparent pedigree and his £30m price tag (not his fault of course), I do expect more. Not unreasonably. I want more of an end product. He's not a HMFP, is he?
     
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  3. Jam Guest

    There is a difference between quick and fast.. you should not confuse the terms.

    I stated the fact he's been clocked as the fastest player in the league.. there is nothing misleading about it.
     
  4. Jam Guest

    Baz I agree we overpaid at the time if the 30M figure is correct.. there was talk the final fee was dependent on if he played out his contract.. I don't know if that is true but the ultimate cost may be less.

    It was a very un-Levy like purchase.. not just because it had an air of deadline desperation about it.. but also due to the fact we do not play a formation that utilises his natural position.

    I can appreciate if you've been underwhelmed given the apparent fee.. and Spurs miserly nature.. but if I rate a player (or not) then it is on his ability.. not his cost.

    Finally what on earth is an HMFP.. and do I really want to know?
     
  5. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    LOL. Holding Mid Field Player.....was a test really. Didn't even notice myself until you asked...was late.
     
  6. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Active Member

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    Didn't want to ask Baz...........:)
     
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  7. Jam Guest

    Ha okay.. never seen that before.. I just call them DMs

    He can play there.. and has for us.. but best on the right flank I think where he can use his athleticism to better effect.. that's where he starred for France
     
  8. johnnyhrvat Guest

    Sorry Jam, there is a great deal of difference when Sissoko plays and I have used the EPL because that is where points matter - not all starts (meaning not Barnsley, Wimbledon, Newport and Rochdale).
    He started 12 games - 21 points.
    He went off against Newcastle when we were drawing and in the end we won: -2 points.
    He went off against Man U when we were drawing and in the end we lost: +1 point.
    He went off against West Ham when we were losing and in the end we drew: -1 point.
    He came on against Burnley when we were winning and in the end we drew: -2 points.
    Any other substitute appearances have not changed our point return.
    Therefore his time on the pitch has lost us another 4 points.
    Also, factor in that his points return only include two starts against top-six teams.

    If you class that as little or no difference then carry on dreaming your Sissoko dream!
     
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  9. Jam Guest

    I admire your effort Johnny.. but your thinking on this is not particularly scientific.

    I offered those statistics.. which are facts by the way.. because your numbers were obviously not. Now that you've explained how you've fudged your data I can see why.

    All players who take the pitch contribute to the final result.. some more than others.. this is impossible to truly quantify.

    Some methods that attempt to however are more valid and less confounding than others.. your's unfortunately.. though interesting.. is not one of them.

    For example.. to suggest that a player involved in a stalemate deserves no credit for the win.. should victory follow his departure.. is fundamentally unsound in principle. Similarly to infer that a substitute who helps maintain a positive result played no role in that result (though he's culpable should the result falter?) is a flawed premise.. who is to say what negative outcomes are ultimately avoided?

    Football is a team game.. no metric can truly separate the individual from the collective.. the facts I provided though are what they are.. facts.. not numbers manipulated by subjective judgements.
     
  10. bruski

    bruski Active Member

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    Excellent essay AAT. The latter part about Poch is my biggest frustration. There is no doubt that he is a very good coach and people manager, however, his dogged belief that HIS way of playing, HIS philosophy, is harming us in big games against the top teams. It'll take me a while to erase the memory of him standing in his technical box, trademark pen in hand, looking utterly devoid of ideas as to how to effect the game with 15 minutes to go, while, I'm sure I'm not alone in this, I was screaming at the box to put Lucas on, our last remaining sub who could POSSIBLY have done something. But no. His unfailing belief that His Philosophy will once again win us the game. It might against Palace, no disrespect, or even Newport FFS! I want him to stay and achieve great things with us, but by God, he needs to wise up on how to beat the very, very best.
     
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  11. johnnyhrvat Guest

    Football is a team game - and a team is only as good as its worst player - and Sissoko is very poor. He came to us from a team that had been relegated and the BBC's NE correspondent was scathing in her assessment of Sissoko's efforts that campaign.
    You wish to credit Sissoko with earning the three points when he came on against Southampton at 5-0 and it ended up being 5-2, or Stoke. 5-0 becoming 5-1?
    He has played the equivalent to just over 12 league games. Whilst on the pitch our goal difference is 19-13 - without Sissoko it is 40-12. Another little difference?
    There only seem to be two people that think Sissoko has any value - his mum and you.
     
  12. Jam Guest

    Ha you quote a BBC correspondent as if her opinion is more worthy than any of the number of top managers I mentioned.. amusing.

    12 games in a season is a very small sample size to be drawing definitive conclusions from Johnny.. for many reasons.. are you aware that 8 of those fixtures were on the road? Clearly statistics is not one of your strong points.

    Our two best results of the season.. results that will be long remembered.. featured Sissoko for the majority.. that must really grate.

    Now if you don't mind there's an important game about to take place.. this discussion is closed.
     
  13. johnnyhrvat Guest

    I'm sure it is closed. 40-12 against 19-13 is impossible to argue against.
     
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  14. Jam Guest

    I've already debunked the merit of those 'statistics' Johnny.. much like everything else you've said.

    People don't respect those who can't admit when they're wrong.. and I'm not talking about opinions.

    If you struggle with that then better you hold your tongue than speak about things you clearly know nothing about.
     
  15. Big fran Guest

    Had a decent game yesterday sissoko albeit poor opposition ... But list out on a 50 50 challenge with man mountain Nathan dyer haha
     
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  16. Nomadico Well-Known Member

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    If Sissoko showed as much skill as you show aggression and rudeness to fellow fan's then he would be a better player!!So Jam practice what you preach..
     
  17. Big fran Guest

    Meant to read *lost out*
     
  18. Jam Guest

    C'mon Fran he was better than decent.. as were the entire team.

    Swansea were down a few men.. we sat at least 5 of our best XI.. maybe more depending on your viewpoint.

    On their home ground.. where they've beaten Liverpool and Arsenal this year.. FA Cup quarterfinal.. no replay.. I was expecting a tough encounter.

    But no.. 3-0.. 75% possession.. 25 shots to 3... it was a royal crushing.

    We made them look poor.. credit where credit is due.
     
  19. Jam Guest

    Nomadico.. those who show respect deserve respect.. it's as simple as that.

    Honestly some of the comments I've seen on here this season about one of our own players have been slanderous.. they're the sort of asinine things I'd expect to see expressed on an Arsenal forum.

    Leave the excessive slagging of one of our own to them.. because once a player pulls on that shirt he is indeed one of our own.

    I'm not interested in winning arguments.. and have little time for those who are.

    I respect all opinions.. regardless if I agree.. if they have some thought behind them.. and are presented in a courteous manner.
     
  20. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    Lads, best of order. Time we ruled this one off and moved on.

    COYS.
     
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