Captain Kaboul: Complacent & clumsy leader

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Josh Bolton, September 16, 2014.

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  1. Tomo Guest

    Kaboul is ****. Period. Sell sell sell him. Isn't loris French captain? Surley obvious choice for spurs captaincy!!
     
  2. butlet Guest

    There are no captains at the club . No Hart no leaders ,no guts,no clue I fear for when we play Chelsea and city honestly fear double figures as we are so poor at the back
     
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  3. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Based on your Logic Ramos, Chelsea should make Torres the captain and Liverpool Borini etc, and you have the cheek to call others 'nitwits'.
    Picking someone to be captain in the hope it may inspire him do the job hes paid to do properly is a poor call, and that youll find is why many are pissed off with it.
    A true captain doesnt need his confidence massaged they get on with the job and deliver because that is what proper Leaders do!
    Can you seriously see players like kompany, Terry, Gerrard, King, Keane, Viera etc needing a cuddle and a confidence boost to perform on the pitch?
     
  4. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

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    How did you, in all your wisdom, manage to work that one out, then, eh? When did I EVER make such a statement? Read my post again (carefully), and then PLEASE let me know, matey, because I am well ,and truly, stumped! ;)

    There are some characters that are more NATURALLY inclined to lead, as you have alluded to with that rather fancy looking list of yours. And, then their are some who must DEVELOP into leaders as a result of experience, maturity and/or a sense of responsibility they have gained as their career has progressed.

    I would guess Younes falls into the latter category!

    Also, there is more than one way to give a player confidence other than simply giving him a cuddle, such as:

    • Giving him more responsibility.
    • Asking him for input regarding team affairs.
    • Reminding him of his skill-set/ standing in the team/game.
    • A new contract offer.
    • Complimenting his performance etc, etc, etc

    Ultimately it's a fairly long list already, whereby if I really put my mind to it I could probably come up with a few more methods, however I'm sure you catch my drift.

    Now, if you were to tell me that none of the players you mentioned above have been the welcoming recipient of any of those displays of confidence, I would, I'm afraid, have to remind you politely (of course) to do your homework before you come knocking on my front door, mon ami.:cool:
     
    Last edited: September 17, 2014
  5. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Youve said it in this post Ramos that kaboul should get the captaincy because hes low on confidence. Has this helped?
     
  6. big fran Guest

    Its an absolute nonsense to suggest the captain doesn't matter, and that a player who has underperforming for two years now with a succession of injuries lack of confidence and not a guaranteed starter can lead the club. Furthermore that he may grow into a leader. He's f##in 28 yrs old already so grow a pair and admit u are wrong.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: September 17, 2014
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  7. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    Kaboul can, on his day perform well, but only if the mood takes him. I cannot see how he can be given the armband over lloris who captains the French national team.
    I am not sure where the idea of Kaboul being commanding actually comes from to be honest. Hs passing has always been suspect, even first time around, and his positioning and pace is more questionable now than ever. He is a decent squad player, and can do a job, but I just cannot see how anyone, let alone the manager, can see him as a leader of this club.

    On a different note, there is no need at all for the racist comments on this site and no one who is a regular contributor like myself or anyone else wants to see ths kind of thing. This is a football site and although we disagree at times, we respect and treat each other with respect.
     
  8. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Matt - i hope you werent refering to my Afcon Ade comment, no racism was intended i was merely refering to the fact that Ade will miss a chunk of the season at the Afcon so if kaboul is injured or out and Ade is off for a period it makes these decisions even more perculiar.
     
  9. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    No, not at all mate, far from it. It was an earlier comment which appears to have been removed. Nothing to do with your comment at all. :)

    With Ade going off, which seems more likely than not, it does seem strange, but what we really need are eleven leaders on the field of play. In the rest of Europe, there is much less fuss about who is captain and everyone is expected to take responsibility, regardless of who wears the armband or not.
    We saw last season, where we got stuffed and none if the players even looked at each other, when actually, they should be bollocking each other!!!
     
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  10. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Can you imagine Peter Schmichel in his day puttin up with the defending weve seen from Kaboul, Rose, Naughton etc infront of him?
    Hell no he used to bollock a very good defensive unit, but without these type of characters in your team your never going to be winners at anything.
     
  11. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

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    Lol...Looks like someone has got their knickers in a twist..., eh, Fran? ;)

    You'll end up doing yourself a mischief if you keep that up, lad!

    Listen, I own my ego, so I do. So much so that I am aware of it, and would NEVER allow it to damage or harm my club! It's as simple as that.

    Yes, it might ruffle a few feathers on here now and again (which, in truth, only adds a bit of spice/interest to proceedings), but speak recklessly about the institution I love? Not on your nelly, my friend... I said, not on your bowl of jelly!

    And that isn't to say I don't speak openly and honestly about the club, using my extensive knowledge and deep understanding of the game;), it just means that I am very aware of the impact forums/social platforms can have on the club, and therefore I make it my duty to speak responsibly and constructively with regards to the going-ons at WHL.

    As for me being right and everybody else wrong, well that is YOUR words, NOT mine.

    But like I always say, there is a BIG difference between being a football fan (i.e. enjoy/love watching and following the game) and being a football man (i.e. having an extensive knowledge and deep understanding of the game) meaning that should either path cross with the other it is HIGHLY likely that they will look at the game in two completely different ways.

    One will take quite a simplistic view on the game, basing a lot of what they say on things like statistics, emotions, favouritism, external sources, reputation, common consensus, the media, knee jerk reactions, ignorance, etc, etc, etc

    The other would look at the game, as a whole, from a FAR more in-depth perspective, raising topics that most people would not consider to be of importance, or even considered. They studied the smallest nuances that occur within a match, that the average punter is too busy looking at the ball to even realise. They understand the technical and mental aspects of the game, and therefore know it's importance in relation to success and failure. They operate from a rational standpoint as opposed to/before an emotional one.

    I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift, by now. And yet you can see for yourself that the differences amongst the two entities are HUGE.

    So, I don't expect most people to understand my point of view, as most people take a simplistic approach to the game. Now that isn't a criticism, it's just an observation I made LONG before using this kind of medium to express my thoughts.

    I've been 'disagreeing'/ sharing opposing views with the vast majority of people I have come into contact ever since I decided to study the game of football. And, for that, I make no apologies!

    I speak in such a way regarding football that allows me to be shot at (i.e. my staunch defences/promotions of certain individuals i.e. Rose, Lennon, Chadli, Townsend, Delph, Moreno, Pochettino, etc, etc, etc) if I am found to be wrong, and am I happy with that. Ask anybody who knows me, or spends time talking football with me and they will say I've got a pretty decent track record when it comes to judging/analysing a player's ability/potential so I'm comfortable in that knowledge.

    Now, how about you stop the pretence and just admit that I am EVERY bit as good as I say I am?.... :cool:. Hey, listen if I wasn't, I would've been shown to be a fraud by now and half the folk on here, including yourself, probably wouldn't give me the time of day....


    ...I'm just saying.;)
     
    Last edited: September 17, 2014
  12. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

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    It would help if you could find me the EXACT quote to be honest. It's only when you begin to read your stuff back do you realise how much you actually wrote!

    Listen, how about I save you the trouble Felon and just tell you you are wasting your time looking for such a quote, as the truth is, it doesn't, actually, exist!

    We'll put it down to crossed wires, misreading something I wrote, or you putting 2 and 2 together and getting 10, eh.... Take your pick! ;)
     
  13. notnats

    notnats Well-Known Member

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    No one has a problem with Kaboul as a person or as a human being, he's a good guy and well liked and respected at the club and by his peers but the decision to make him captain is a poor one and extremely disappointing for many reasons, at this point and taking into account his past form, his injury problems, and his current and woeful form, he should not be considered as first choice in the CB role or as part of a core of first team players. He is a senior player only, and when on field should of course take on the same responsibilities of a leading player, but captain, no. He's not now or ever been good enough, at his best he is decent and is capable of a strong game but he is way off his best at the moment and sadly looks to be in a slump/decline and can not be considered as first choice let alone captain. I think he needs to get his game in order before he is given such a responsibility as the captaincy of our great club, and like many, the captaincy of Spurs still means a great deal to people like me. Which leads me to the decision itself, no one can blame the man for accepting the armband, he's a proud man and player of course he will accept it but if this really is our best option then it really does highlight our complete lack of quality leadership within the team. Kaboul is not at all and never has been a particularly composed, commanding or combative figure, he's decent in the air and decent on the ball, but has never been that strong off the ball and is often too slow to react and is often caught out flat footed, and as been evident of late, very poor and culpable in the teams defensive woes. Poor decision from the new manager, where is the ruthless and fiercely ambitious, forward thinking manager who's not afraid of making the difficult but decisive decisions?
     
  14. notnats

    notnats Well-Known Member

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    Ramos, you seem to have backed yourself into a corner here, a bit like Moussa you show immense skill in gliding past an opponent with great determination but then run yourself into a pack with little option other than go backwards or sideways. I actually think you are very wrong but I don't expect you to admit it but none the less I still cant help reading and enjoying your posts, keep it up.
     
  15. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

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    Guys, once again, this isn't about proving someone wrong, this is about different opinion.

    Kaboul IS club captain - certainly controversial appointment, will he do a fine job? Only time will tell. There is NO truth at this point, we can only SPECULATE.

    On the side note, I tend to agree with Ramos43 that SEASONAL captaincy is overrated these days. (Especially when you don't have super influential players like Gerrard or Terry in the squad). And it definitely doesn't guarantee a place in the starting line up.
    You don't have to go far to find evidence - Arteta is Arsenal captain, started only one match this season.

    Also, Kaboul was a vice captain last year, so this can be considered as a sensible move by the manager allowing continuity that wouldn’t unsettle the squad.

    Do players think Kaboul is clumsy error prone ****? Somehow, I doubt it.

    P.S.
    bigfran, kind reminder that personal insults are not welcome here.
     
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  16. big fran Guest

    Point noted admin... I'm sure we we would all like to know where Ramos' self proclaimed extensive knowledge and in depth analysis of the game comes. I'm guessing his laptop but I'm surely wrong and Ramos will post his long list of qualifications/coaching badges, people within the game he's worked with and the high level(s) of the game which he has both played and managed!!
     
  17. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    The decision has been made and the manager clearly feels that he had seen enough in Kaboul as captain to give him the armband on a permanent basis, so we have to respect that and back him.
    I am not convinced that it is the correct decision, as I don't feel Kaboul has played well enough to warrant being club captain, but let's not forget that Dawson remained club captain last season and until he left this season, and he wasn't exactly in the form of his life was he.

    Kaboul is a strong player and he does need to improve, of that I think there can be very little argument, but I expect this decision has been made to boost his confidence and to give him the chance to prove himself.
     
  18. OldjdubLloris New Member

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    I like the idea of a central defender as captain, but surely the captain must be a leader both on and off the pitch and the first name on the team sheet each game. This obviously means consistent performances and the ability to lead and set an example on the pitch. I haven't seen either consistency in performance or an ability to organise and inspire the rest of the team from Kaboul.
    Does this mean that Kaboul will start each week? If so, what does that mean for the other centre backs. Will they be rotated? That doesn't bode well. A settled back line is absolutely vital to prevent the shocking defensive lapses which have been all too common of late.
    Having said that, who else?
    Our ability to defend has been sadly lacking for sometime and there has been no obvious leader and inspirational character in the squad.
    I loved Dawsons passion but passion alone was not enough.
    A lot of the other players have flattered to deceive and appear to be just happy to be playing and do seem to lack the passion that supporters so love.
    I have truely hoped with each new management team we have had put in place ( and we sure have had a number of them ), that things would alter, so let's hope Poch can inspire some passion, leadership and organisation into the squad and get Kaboul back to the player he once was.

    Oldjdub.
     
  19. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

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    The problem is, EVERYONE tends to think Ramos is wrong... but very few people can ever actually prove it....Very few, indeed! ;)

    Truth is, Fran you've had two bites at this cherry, now, and still couldn't get the job done! Perhaps you should just enjoy having a interesting character, with a unique and compelling outlook on the game, around to share your thoughts with, eh. Who knows, approach me with an open mind, instead of prejudice and you MAY actually find that you learn a thing or two!

    I have absolutely NO DOUBT that Pochettino knows what he is doing by making Younes captain, and therefore I support him.

    Would I of made the same decision in his position? Maybe, maybe not, but I suppose it comes down to how you view the captaincy.

    Reading between the lines, I don't believe that Pochettino places the same level of importance/ meaning upon the role of his captain, as some of you do.

    The Argentine isn't stupid, he MUST realise that picking a player with a view to him starting him in every match, in an area of the field where there are only 2 openings (at present) and PLENTY of quality alternatives is a recipe for disaster, as far as the morale within the squad is concerned.

    Therefore, that leads me to believe that Mauricio, in all likelihood the Argentine would of sat down with ALL three players (either as a group or individually) as well as the rest of the squad and explained the situation, regarding who wears the armband in the event of a loss of form, lack of fitness or a tactical reshuffle.

    I think he would of told the players how he views the captaincy and what his expectation are. So if Younes' form does NOT improve markedly in the comings weeks/months I am sure the Frenchman will already be aware of what to expect with Ade and Hugo also being PUBLICLY confirmed as vice captains.


    I mean how many managers who view the captaincy as 'a big deal' go and announce THREE potential captains?

    Sounds to me like MP is just giving himself room to manoeuvre should he wish to change his captain to accommodate different personnel, should he feel it's in the best interests of the team.

    Which raises the interesting question as to which one of Spurs 3 captains will start in the EL on Thursday night? Will Spurs find themselves with a 4th captain for the match, with Vorm, Soldado Fazio and Vertonghen all pushing for places?


    ...Heavens forbid!!! :eek:
     
    Last edited: September 17, 2014
  20. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    Football needs leaders all over the pitch as I have said before. What we saw last season, through poor management, was that we had no leaders anywhere.
    Poch must have seen things off the pitch that show the players reject Kaboul, and all we can do is support the decision. Time will tell if it is correct or not, but for now, he has the armband, he is the captain and I wish him good luck.
     
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