An ode to (soon-to-be departing) Mousa Dembele

Discussion in 'Featured' started by Josh Bolton, June 18, 2018.

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  1. Jam Guest

    Defensive midfielder and 'water carrier' are not interchangeable terms.. I'm not sure where you got that idea from

    Cantona most famously coined the pejorative when describing Deschamps.. a man he clearly did not like

    Style wise it was meant as a slur on a player he considered talentless.. one who only recycled possession while offering nothing else.. with or without the ball



    Without wishing to debate Deschamps merits you would not find two more different players occupying a similar part of the pitch than Didier and Dembele

    There has been a plethora of defensive midfielders (and indeed defensive minded central midfielders) who were considered world class.. Essien De Rossi Viera Keane to name a few.. none of them scored much.. none of them were considered 'water carriers'

    Dembele is world class.. that's not just my opinion.. but the professional consensus.. particularly from those who've played against him
     
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  2. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    To be fair Jam he doesn't get in his own National sides starting 11, if the overall professional consensus is he's World Class then this would be a near cert surely?
    I've always thought he has the ability to be World Class but is far to languid in his Play and Mentality.
    He will always choose the sideways pass , he may be strong and may be able to ghost past players but it's all in safe areas rarely if ever affecting the result or the opposition.
    Hence there's never been big interest in him from the big clubs and he is behind the likes of Fellaini etc in the pecking order for Belgium.
     
  3. Jam Guest

    Not necessarily Felon.. Nainggolan didn't even make the Belgium squad and he is widely considered one of the best midfielders going in football

    Managers will do as they please.. VdV walked into Redknapp's lineup.. rightfully so.. AVB made a point to sell him immediately

    Dembele has been one of our most influential players.. he's not physically what he once was.. yet still he was regarded as the best player on the park a number of times this season.. and in some very big games.. again this is not just my opinion

    If we don't adequately replace him with some significant quality then certain fans will quickly find out exactly what it is they've been missing all this time
     
  4. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    Seriously beyond the initial changes after he leaves he won't be remembered there's literally nothing to remember about his whole career with us because his legacy at spurs at best has been kept possession well on the half way line and played it safe.
    Has/had the talent of a worldy but the application of a player that didn't really care what the score was or the occasion.
    No one will be telling their Kids-Grand Kids about who 'World Class' Dembele was and what he did for the club because essentially he just ticked over with us, won nothing, barely ever created a goal or god forbid scored 1, wasn't a no 10, wasn't a box to box, wasn't a ball winner, wasn't a playmaker...........
    The best anyone can come up with on this thread is how his carrying of the ball gives others space a worldy this is not.

    Technically gifted massively underachieved.
     
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  5. antony Active Member

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    You have made the point better than I have tried to do Felon82! All along I have stressed what a good job Dembele does for the team, but judging him on his time at Spurs, there is no way imo opinion he is world class even though the "poll" that I am still trying to find apparently confirms he is!
     
  6. antony Active Member

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    Dembele, very good player in my book! World class in yours Jam! Nuff said!
     
  7. Jam Guest

    He'll be remembered as an immensely talented footballer by those who know.. part destroyer part technical genius.. unparalled under the press.. effortless on the dribble.. a brilliant and completely unique defensive midfielder

    You're swimming against the tide of sound opinion again Felon.. and I'm certainly not talking about this blog
     
  8. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    And he used all this talent to produce what?
    Whats he got to show for it?

    Que the tumble weed...................

    He's the epitome of the recent/modern Spurs Teams shouldve/could've been great but has been found wanting when the crunch came to the crunch.
     
  9. antony Active Member

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    Just a quick question Jam. In their pomp who would you have rather had in the Spurs team Dembele, Viera or Keane? I'll answer my own question first. Either one over Dembele.
     
  10. Jam Guest

    Well you're in trouble if you need Felon to explain things for you

    Seriously though.. if you think it's just my opinion.. read this article as an example..

    http://www.espn.com/soccer/club/tot...ers-say-about-underrated-tottenham-midfielder

    Then go find what some of England's finest have spoken about him this year.. Gerrard Lampard Ferdinand

    Nuff said
     
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  11. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    Players don't win trophies, teams do. You can be a world class player...but if you're in a bad team or one that's not ready yet; you won't win anything. We can't just define players by what medals they've won or how many goals/assists they've had. It is fine to criticize Dembele for maybe not fully reaching his potential; but we can't dismiss he's play and contribution to our team these last couple of years.

    These consecutive champions league appearances, change of culture and what Poch has been able to establish. This is all a process, and it's one that's not complete. Take him out of the team now, and we have a major void. Read about what other players or managers who have faced Dembele say about him, he's style may not be for everyone...but you can't just call him a journeyman. This season wasn't his best, the previous one; there were some games where he just controlled the whole game...not many players can do that.
     
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  12. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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  13. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    Even if were not counting medals and trophies (because only at Spurs they don't matter)

    Compare his stats with proper world class players that played/play in his position these are also players that weren't there as playmakers etc
    Dembeles stats are abysmal for a player of such technical talent, drawing up what other players say about him means relatively nothing I've repeatedly said not just on this thread that I rate him very highly technically but he is not and cannot be put in the world class bracket because he's never pushed himself to that level.
    And that's why his career has barely ignited let alone it fizzling out into nothing he's massively underachieved.
     
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  14. antony Active Member

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    I know its not just your opinion Jam. I am aware many think Dembele is world class and I would also argue many think he is not! I see after you compared Dembele to Viera and Keane, you did not opt to answer my question regards your preferred player, Viera, Keane (World Class) or Dembele?
     
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  15. antony Active Member

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    I think recognized, regular posters and posts and new posters and posts can be read differently by some!
     
  16. Jam Guest

    So the opinions of opponents, teammates and managers mean nothing.. yet your opinion is somehow valid? Interesting

    What stats are you talking about? Goals? Kanté is the current gold standard of defensive midfielders.. 3 in 106 EPL appearances.. Busquets.. who many rate the best.. 7 in 311 La Liga appearances.. should I go on? because there are worse examples..

    I'll let you do the math.. but needless to say goals are not paramount for a defensive midfielder

    If numbers are your thing.. personally the eye test is good enough for me.. then he's been quantified as one of the best dribblers in the EPL (the best in 2015).. one of the most accurate midfield passers.. and in the opposition half.. why he even once went a full four months of EPL action without being dispossessed.. now I'm just not sure if that was the season we averaged 2.3 points with him in the side and 0.9 without

    Remy is right.. there has been a number of exceptional players who through no fault of their own have not won anything at Spurs

    Had we had one or two more at Dembele's level along the way that would not be the case
     
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  17. Jam Guest

    That's an interesting question Antony.. Dembele is a better pure footballer than Keane.. I doubt Roy would disagree.. but Keane had that aura and combatative edge which made him special.. my own personal preference?Dembele

    Viera on the other hand was truly exceptional in all facets.. first choice
     
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  18. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    Jam you're off on a Tangent again missing the fact that repeatedly I've said how good technically I think he is, so my opinion mirrors what your list does to a degree so it's not some sort of I know better.
    But as you've mentioned it Kantè played in the EPL 3 years - won 2 EPL titles and 1 FA Cup with 2 different sides and was widely regarded as the lynch pin/driving force behind both Teams.
    Busquets not only was a Lynch Pin for arguably 1 of the Best Club Sides Ever sweeping up every Major Trophy along the way he also magically scooped up a World Cup, European Cup double at international level also.
    To put Dembele in these 2s bracket is just farcical and deluded, because he made dribbles in safe areas and passed a ball sidewards 5yds successfully.

    I'll ask you this - what's Dembele Ever Done to match Kantes small career and Busquets Decorated Career?
    And in years to come who'l in the football world be more memorable?
     
  19. antony Active Member

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    Dembele is limited player or a player who limits himself. Either way for these reasons imo, he can never be classed as world class!

    An again I confirm, as it seems to need confirming! I love the boy and never have moaned or groaned when seeing his name in the starting 11 because he is a very good player.
     
  20. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    Indeed Antony, and if people actually read instead of flying off on Tangents as some have, I've said he is Technically a great player and will leave a void in the Centre of the Park because he is better than his other CM competition in the Squad.
    But He Is NOT WORLD CLASS because he's never applied himself to be.
     
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