A Brave New World ...... Really?

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Felon82, June 14, 2018.

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  1. Edinspurgh Guest

    Man, rooting around for bargains in a ruined championship club cannot be what Pochettino meant by bravery. The fella deserves better than this archetypal Levy shite.
    antony, Gordon Mc and Felon82 like this.
  2. Attack?!?!
    You poor love.

    Maybe read what you wrote again?

    "because the Domestic Trophies he and this team can't be arsed or have the character to win"

    "Dreamers who think that this core of players will some how improve more and evolve into winners without serious investment are just that Dreamers."

    "We didn't improve last year as much as some want to dress it up"

    "so at least the Happy Clappers support can get their excuses in early as to why we couldn't keep pace."

    Those in glass houses?
  3. Big fran Guest

    Hear many of the levy lovers give it its better than 90s...
    Ive been a spurs fan since late 80s early 90s and tbh I think I prefer that era. We always had stars gazza Lineker waddle Klinsmann Ginola etc even the two Romanian signings and Rebrov got us out our seats. We actually won a major trophy in the Fa Cup my most cherished spurs moment. We had an identity. A former big club that was absolutely shite one week or most weeks tbh to fantastic the next but we knew what we were.
    This era frustrates the bollocks out of me. Kane apart not one player excites me. On the cusp of something special only to back peddle the season after. Players wanting to leave etc.
    Felon82 likes this.
  4. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    So which part of those statements are wrong?
  5. They are opinions, Felon, not fact. Opinions which you are more than entitled to.

    However, you don't seem able to cope with opinions that differ to yours, saying you are being attacked, even though your post contains attacks on our team, our manager, our chairman, and anyone that disagrees with you.

    I'd love to stay longer and chat, but I've got a party to go to ;-D

    Maybe we can hook up the day before Spurs pre-season starts and discuss your post again? I'll come on over and find you.
  6. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Opinions based on evidence.

    Where's all this I can't cope from? I'm open to discussing Spurs with all and anyone that's why I write.

    As for the Attack comment it's a case of the Staunch Defence of anything critical of the club as opposed to personal.

    If you think I'm even slightly upset by Happy Clappers you're sorely mistaken
  7. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    Think we're all getting ahead of ourselves...the team is making some progress and does need a few good players of quality added to the squad. We're still relatively early in the transfer window, it would have been nice to get one or two signings in....but that hasn't been the case.

    Screaming that all hell has broken loose or just saying be happy with what we've got won't do much to help. As mentioned above, Poch & Levy both have made some mistakes...but admittedly as well; our club hasn't seen such promising times as we are in now. I do believe Poch is the man to guide the club forward provided that Levy supports him. Until Poch leaves or calls it quit, all we're doing is just yelling at the wind.
  8. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    When talking about bravery Poch did not mean purchasing of new players. Acquisitions do not require bravery from Levy, as he has never lost money in acquisition business. Wage structure was the revolution Poch asked for and he got it. Now we are closer to Liverpool than to Everton. That is the risk that requires bravery, cause money paid in wages are not recoverable. So if players fail to perform you are forced much harder to sell them or loan them out, if you are Levy. But you, Felon82 aren't Levy. You stubbornly believe Spurs are equal to ManCiti. Well, we may be equal to them on the pitch at times, but as a club we are far behind, being very much close to Everton. We are moving away from that, but it takes time before we surpass the rest of big 6. When it happens Lewis may sell the club and you will get your sugar daddy who will buy the silverware for you. Do not expect that at this point in time, though. We need to win , not to buy trophies.
    As far as transfer is concerned we need an upgrade at goal, not at forward.
    Last edited: June 15, 2018
  9. antony Active Member

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    Agree! We make a statement of intent by increasing our top players contracts, then this!! Grealish was/is a big fish in a small (talent wise) pond. The Championship! He will not dislodge Sonny, Dele, Eriksen or Winks when back to full fitness, Moura also needs to start over the likes of Grealish in 18/19 so we can see what he can do! Grealish is the right footed version of Lamela and one show pony is enough at any club!The ego that is Grealish, a party boy in London warming the Spurs bench is a recipe for disaster imo! Put the 25+mill and his alleged 50k towards the likes of Martial or the boy Wegli at Dortmund!
    Felon82 likes this.
  10. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Spurporter if you think we are more an Everton than a Liverpool who we've finished above almost every season for the last 10 years then you are still stuck in that small club mentality cheering on those little victories that essentially produce nothing in the end.
    I have never asked for or wanted a Sugar Daddy yet another extreme go to argument for the Anti Spending brigade followed by the look at Leeds/Portsmouth.......
    Expecting your Owners to put significant investment into the side when it's been in touching distance while announcing profits non stop but putting very little back in is my Gripe.
    We are a Top 6 side at minimum and more regularly a Top 4 side so why are people still walking around with this little plucky Spurs attitude all too happy to accept second best.
    Of course we can't compete on a financial level with City - not many can , but that's not to say they can't be beaten or finished ahead of as we have done previously.
    Stop with the little club punching above its weight BS.
    We need to invest in 2/3 players that are better than the likes of Sissoko Lamela Jannssen Llorente Aurier, we are mad to consider letting Toby go imo and the Rose situation needs sorting out.
    As I've said before Transfer windows need a concise plan 1 that's based around improvement on what you've got , so far there's nothing other than a potential swoop for Grealish because Villa are in trouble is this a Title aspiration signing?
    Last Summer we had an extremely poor window imo and at best stood still if not went backwards.
    Pochs words not mine were to be Brave , Take Risks , get transfers done early this has failed to materialize thus far.
    Great I'd love to eat my words if we in fact get some quality in and kick on but weve all seen this window dawdling time and time again.
    My position very much comes from wanting to Win but also to protect what we have got, Kane seems to currently be the exception to the rule but if we don't Win things and win soon we cannot expect our top players to stick around and every window/season that passes when we start the season having not done our best proactively to sort out what/where we were weak the seasons previous then the club in my eyes are not giving back to the fans the best product that they are investing themselves in and paying for.
  11. Cheshuntboy Guest

    I really hope the response to this article isn't a sign of things to come on 'Tottenham Live'. I've been an occasional poster here for about three years, and it's been a haven of generally reasonable debate, certainly compared with a bear pit like 'Dear Mr Levy', which I gave up on because of the ridiculous levels of spite which any criticism of Levy invariably generated. Now though it seems that the 'you must be a gooner troll' brigade have turned their attentions to this site, presumably because they can't bear the fact that a new training ground or a billion pound stadium aren't hailed as better than the odd trophy by most on here, and that's heresy in their eyes.
    One of their main arguments is that 'real supporters support, not criticise', but I've never yet had an answer to the obvious response, namely when is criticism ever allowed? I used to get slagged-off for criticising AVB, by people who now agree that he was a fraud, and slagging-off Redknapp continues to be the mark of many of the extreme Levy Lovers - hypocrisy or what? If this site goes down the '**** off and support Arsenal' road favoured by some of the worst of the 'loyalists' it'll be a very sad day for those of us who believe that supporting Spurs should be a pleasure, not a religious obligation.
    Gordon Mc and Felon82 like this.
  12. 1968 lad New Member

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    Spurs in perspective

    I am a Newsnow hunter of spurs information. 90% of the time it’s a waste of time. But, I often observe on countless fan sites the - “we are doing well” - “we are underperforming should be winning” contest.
    I have been a spurs fan since 1967. Went to school in Tottenham. Played for the school team on Saturday morning on the long gone football pitches behind the spurs. Played with laced up leather. Bill Nicholson and Alan Mullery once came to watch a player of ours in 1968/9, they never took him, and he played for Edgware Town.
    So this is how I see it. Most of this, I think is accurate.Factually before the premiership from 1960 - 1991- Spurs finished in the top 6, 16/33 times. We of course won the league/double and the fa cup 8 times , the cupwinners/uefa 1 each. Relegated in 76/77back up the following year. From the FA cup in 1991until the league cup in 98/99 we won nothing.
    From 91 until Enic took over in 2001, we did not finish in the top six and our highest position was 8th and the lowest 15th.
    There were moments of greatness ,the dawnithe ng of the Argentine period and the very good 87 team ( beat by Coventry in the FA cup final) and 90ish team, and the great FA cup in 91. But lets be honest, this is a lot more than most football teams and fans. Talk to my Birmingham City supporting brother in law.
    What this tells us is the truth, for many, many years Spurs struggled to be described as a top 6 side and were often a moderate side living on past glories and a club that were nearly bankrupt before Alan Sugar took over. The premiership dawned and Enic took control in 2001, we and they were up against the money sides.
    Yet it took them only 4 years and in 2005 we qualified for the champions league, in total so far 3 times. Under Mr Levy we have finished in the top 6, 11 times and we have finished in the top 6 each of the last 9 years.
    We have a great training ground, the best manager since Burkinshaw/Venables, perhaps a manager who could rival the great Bill Nic. We have a top, top stadium. We have produced the best english centre forward since Shearer. We are up against teams owned by countries, by Oligarchs, by Banks, by revenue producing brands.
    All of you who take the view that things are not looking up are just plain wrong ,the facts speak for themselves.
    Yes, we haven't won a trophy since 2007, but I think it is only a matter of time and as the great Danny Blanchflower, said “the game is about glory” This seminal comment established the Spurs philosophy, it was a marking point , but now it has to be viewed in the context of the modern game. To succeed over the long term the game is about money, about business about being well managed and having a plan. Spurs meet all of those criteria.It is now about establishing Spurs as a top 4 English club and a top 8 Euro club.
    Yes, it is about winning, but this will come, for a while glory must nestle quietly. Enjoy the fact you support a truly great club. No one is denying the need for constructive criticism, it is essential, but when you do it doff your cap to the above facts and the modern context.
    voiceofreason and Josh Bolton like this.
  13. Cheshuntboy Guest

    You've bombarded us with facts (not all of them correct, by the way), but it's your conclusion that is at least debatable - 'having a plan' is how you build a stadium (even when the cost is 100% out!), but it isn't how you build a winning team - did Levy/Pochettino plan for Dembele to hand United their semi-final equaliser, or for the 'new Messi' Edwards to turn out to be an all-too-typical teenage waster? As Wenger proved at Arsenal in the late '90s, turning a mediocre team into Double winners involved astute buying, tactical awareness and motivational skill to turn good players into winners, something we've not cracked however much praise is lavished on Pochettino for his coaching skills. Leicester proved that organisation and team spirit can perform miracles in 2016, but we've not emulated them, and the FACT is that we regressed last season on every measure, and we're going to have a mighty struggle even to stay in the top four unless Levy pulls something more impressive than Grealish out of the bag pretty soon.
    Gordon Mc and Felon82 like this.
  14. No good players in the lower leagues?
    Keane began his professional career at Wolverhampton Wanderers , when they were in Division 1 (now Championship) , scoring twice on his first-team debut aged 17. The following season he was the club's leading goal scorer and scored his first international goal for the Republic of Ireland. He changed club frequently between 1999 and 2002. Just weeks into the 1999–2000 season , he was sold to Premier League club Coventry City for £6 million , then a British record for a teenager. After an impressive first season in the Premier League , Keane was signed by Italian Serie A club Inter Milan for a fee of £13 million in July 2000 , signing a five-year contract. The Inter manager at the time was Marcello Lippi , who later said "At that time at Inter , they had a policy of going for young players and Robbie Keane was the best one that I saw." When Lippi was sacked his successor , Marco Tardelli , deemed Keane to be surplus to requirements and in December 2000 , he was loaned out to Leeds United.
    His Leeds career got off to an impressive start , scoring nine goals in 14 games for the club before the Leeds manager , David O'Leary , made his loan deal permanent in May 2001 at an original cost of £12 million. The following season was not so bright , and he found himself dropping down the pecking order. His form suffered and he only managed nine goals in 33 appearances , three of them being in a 6-0 League Cup win at Leicester City , on 9 October 2001.
    Meanwhile , Leeds sunk deeper into debt and were forced to sell many players and Keane joined the exodus when he was sold to Tottenham Hotspur just before the 2002–03 transfer deadline for a fee of £7 million. After joining Tottenham Hotspur in 2002 he played there for seven-and-a-half years over two spells and amassed 306 appearances across all competitions , scoring 122 goals. The 2007–08 season was the most fruitful of his career as he set a career record of 23 goals in a season , including a landmark 100th competitive goal and won his first senior honour , the League Cup.
    In total , Keane scored 126 Premier League goals for six different clubs , which ranks him as the thirteenth-most successful goalscorer in the history of the Premier League.
    That can't be correct as he came from a lower division club & none of the players from the lower leagues are any good.
    I am annoyed at the fact that it has been reported , several times , that Ryan Sessegnon has already joined Spurs yet the club have not announced it. The same thing applies to Martial and de Ligt. Man Utd are not going to pay £75 million , for Toby Alderweireld , and he will leave for £25 million at the end of next season.
    He has done it before. With one more year remaining on his contract , Alderweireld opted not to extend his contract with Ajax , subsequently receiving plenty of interest during the off-season , before joining Atlético Madrid.
  15. Cheshuntboy Guest

    You're absolutely right about Robbie Keane; I knew a Wolves season ticket holder who raved about Keane when he first hit their first team, and I was very chuffed when he eventually reached Spurs, and he didn't let any of us down. Whether Grealish is comparable is another question though, and there are plenty of young players with over-inflated egos and more skill than application already at Tottenham - do we need to pay forty million for another? As for our other supposed targets, we seem to have missed the boat with Sessegnon, and I reckon Levy is hoping for an unknown to make an impression at the World Cup, Dimitrescu or Claesen-style, and be signed for a relative pittance (say one Sessegnon leg), and for him thus be greeted as the genius his worshippers already believe him to be, Sissoko, Aurier, Janssen, N'Koudu, N'Jie, Llorente and most of the Bale Seven notwithstanding. Still, he DID get VDV, albeit nearly ten years ago, so there's always hope.
  16. antony Active Member

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    For want of a better word we have blagged away into the position we find ourselves in. Three consecutive CL finishes due to Poch being able to coach players of course, but also by convincing those players that THFC was the place to be and remain for the future glory, any pro worth is sault would want to be at and honours and bigger financial rewards will eventually follow. An relatively speaking Enic have done it on a budget and managed to build a state of the art training facility plus the most advanced football stadia in the world!
    From this fantastic platform regardless how we got here we MUST no push/progress and start shopping for elite players who will progress the team. We seem to be prepared to pay salaries in the region of 6-7mill + and Poch apparently has be given £50m + all the money from sales. Combined that could be well over 200mill.

    But to inspire! That means no Grealish!

    Personally I like Poch's philosophy of just recuting small. Maybe just 3/4 top additions Martial,55 Wegli,44 Zaha 65 and Max Meyer.25 There's your 200mill

    Toby, 50 Danny Boy 45 (if they want t?) Dembele,30 Nkoudon,12 Sissoko, 22 Lamela 25 , Aurier, 25 .Onomha, 17 Lorentte, 7. 150-160m
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  17. Big fran Guest

    17m for onomah... Sell us some gear pal lol
    antony likes this.
  18. antony Active Member

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    The people you need to approach will be the one's who pay 22+ for Sissoko:)
  19. antony Active Member

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    The only time Rebrov got me out of my seat was to go home in frustration!! He has got to be one of our worse signings on paper ever!
  20. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    How ridiculous, you can't sell 9 players and bring in about 5 and expect to get anywhere. The money spent for Sissoko, Lamela and the likes it's already gone; we're not getting anywhere near what we spent. These players happen to be decent squad players, they all helped in the last couple of season in us finishing in top four or more.
    We ought to try and hold on to the likes of Rose, Toby, Dembele and invest 1 or 2 big names; Martial, Zaha, or if there's a miracle; Bale.. then see what happens.

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