It's Tragic you know

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Felon82, September 25, 2019.

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  1. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    At what point do people acknowledge this ship has already hit the iceberg and the life boats have been manned?

    This time it was 4th tier opposition that was able to contain the sideways onslaught of Pochettino's feared philosophy.

    So it was the League Cup and of course Pochettino loves to throw a mish mash of lesser spotted forgotten about squad members in its the least he can do to make them feel special/included.

    It was clearly evident from the off that the reveared under 23s we hear so much about are just waiting to be unleashed on the world of football to dominate for the next decade.......

    The usual 75% possession stats managed 19 shots of which 4 hit the target (bit like our win ratio) but again it was more than easy to contain for a team 3 divisions below.

    Poch looked in his 1 page tactical book and used his 3 subs just either side of the 70th minute mark to give the elusion he had something new and innovative to give, introducing his love child the bull dozer clown Lamela , his blue eyed boy sulky Dane and Sonny but it was to no avail.

    With Colchester growing and looking as likely to get a winner the full time whistle blew on yet another lackluster performance to put everyone out of their misery.

    So our want away dead ball specialist sets us on our path in the shoot out with his 3rd miss from 3 (if he's looking to secure that next big contract he's not making a good case for himself) , Colchester almost sparing our blushes with a failed Paneka attempt but just when you thought we might sneak it Moura wallops his shot onto the bar and Colchester quite rightly storm the pitch in jubilation.

    Well done to Colchester another team schooling us on how to work as a team to a game plan while Poch stands there glum completely unable to work out how to beat yet another lower league side or any side for that matter, all while his troops look none the wiser or enthused.

    With the Title challenge done and the league cup done by September this Project couldn't look further away from Trophies or progress if it tried.
    Fa Cup being the only minuscule realistic trophy left but I expect the same type of scenario as last night to unfold again at some point n that's it, you'd have to be dangerously deluded to think that freak accident of a CL final last year will repeat itself and go one better.

    Now we have Pochettino talking about needing to start work in January......
    (This of course is true but when January comes expect Pochettino's usual disappearing act and cryptic messages helping to deliver yet another non event window)

    Time is up on this Charade , unfortunately it's beyond repair.

    It's going nowhere but backwards/sinking, players that couldn't be shifted are not wanted so don't really care, experienced players that wanted pay rises to warrant that of a top 4 side have been snubbed and made examples of are then being used as if that's gonna work, players that have been slowly on the downward trajectory or just aren't that good but are Poch's babes so will play regardless have gotten way too comfy so don't put a proper shift in or have any consistency and finally there's a select few who care but can see what anyone with half a brain can see the jig is up.

    The whole thing needs major surgery , I don't think Pochettino is anywhere near good enough to be given this rebuild job to do.

    If quick action isn't taken this is gonna get a lot worse.
    Last edited: September 25, 2019
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  2. sybrian Guest

    Eriksen has become useless - has missed the last 3 pens he took - doesn't look as though he wants to play for us anymore. Wanyama is just as useless! Playing these players doesn't give the right imppression to the youngsters!
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  3. Thomas Guest

    Equally tragic is the number of players we have unsettled and not performing. How long is it going to take to resolve the problem?

    Don't want club: Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Eriksen
    Not wanted by club: Rose, Wanyama, Aurier (KWP better than me?)
    Not sure whether wanted: Dier, KWP (Sanchez, Foyth better than me?)
    New and injured: Celso, Ryan
    New and not yet settle in: Ndombele

    Settled and available:
    Kane, Ali (haven't been performing at previous levels)
    Lamela (should have been sold two summers ago)
    Winks (doesn't screw up but average)
    Davies (out injured and not match fit)
    Sissoko (credit for improving his game last season)
    Moura, Son (credit for making a difference)
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  4. Bobby Buckle Guest

    Ericson wants to go to Real Madrid, now apparently RM want Poch! What on earth do they see in either? Poch has been lucky, he’s no tactician and by the way things are(as he says) within the squad he’s no man manger either.
    Hate to say it but the Poch has to go!
  5. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Well-Known Member

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    "Equally tragic is the number of players we have unsettled and not performing. How long is it going to take to resolve the problem?"

    My thoughts too Felon & Thomas, as I posted in the very recent past - I sincerely believe Eriksen doesn't warrant a place on either the starting eleven OR the bench. It's clear to me he's not interested at all and yet retains a squad place and what message does that send to others ? I'm not suggesting there's a better player who can be put in, rather that a more honest individual would appreciate the chance. And it might (should) nudge some other squad members - yes I'm mainly looking at you here, Mr Alli - that name or perceived reputation counts for nothing. Show me any other profession where mollycoddling and pandering to an ego is as commonplace - Hollywood aside. My ethos is clear, as it was when I ran a junior league side years ago - real effort on the park or you can go shopping, sit and scratch yourself at home or do whatever you damn well like but you sure as Hell ain't playing 'til you smarten yourself. The whole set-up is creaking, be it from unsettled players, others who are sub-standard, a manager who looks to have lost his way or possibly divisions in the dressing room, who knows the causes ? The house is falling around them and it needs to be addressed sharpish. We enjoyed being better than the Goons and the West London Rich Boys for a short while, but they haven't got better - we've just deteriorated, I wouldn't exactly say slowly but would definitely say surely. Critical times and anything less than a top, goals-laced performance against Southampton next time out will pour on petrol. Let's see.
    Last edited: September 25, 2019
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  6. Thomas Guest

    This situation is sad but I think in Pochettino's mind half a loaf is better than none as he doesn't really has any real alternatives. That's why I think Lamela should have been sold and another playmaker brought in two seasons ago. Lamela was supposed to be a flair player but ended up better known for his sliding tackles.

    Kane, Alli, Eriksen automatically starts when fit as they are Pochettino's favourites. I think one in particular became complacent and another's heart is no longer at the club. The remaining is not as sharp as before but one thing I noted; he's become less selfish and more willing to give goal-scoring opportunities to others.
  7. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    1) We are not surprised are we?

    2) Eriksen has been shite for 9 months. Make him train on his own!

    3) Poch's handling of pretty much everything since the Ajax game has been shite!

    4) Can anybody explain why we let Llorente go, please?

    5) Has DL got the balls to fire him?

    6) Has DL got the cash to fire him.

    7) Where did the footballer formerly know as Ali go?

    I'm sure there are more, but I'm wearied by what's been happening in front of us these past weeks and months. They say your first loss is your worst loss.

    Something needs to change, and very soon. Christ get The Messiah and Chrissie H in pro tem ........

    Painful or what.
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  8. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    Sure, I am surprised. I was expecting Lo Celso to challenge EC for the playing time. and ease his departure. I was looking for Sessegnon to be ready and allow MP to 4-3-3 as a left MF. We got last season team. No wonder Spurs are poor. 1 player in 3 windows.

    He got better wages elsewhere. If he couldn't he would re-sign. Player exodus started with Walker. Then Toby was not allowed to go to MU when Mourinho wanted him. It created the impression that THFC is a trap. They don't pay you and don't let you go. That is where DL causing a damage, if not already done.

    No. More money than MU payed Mourinho. Never. Also, Poch specializes in getting the clubs in deep shite out of it. That is why both MU and RM consider him, not because he is a genius tactician or scout or both. He did an exceptional job getting Spurs out of Beatles purchase. He just hesitates to start ruining his own house.

    Yes. The club just recently refinanced its stadium loans. It is now financed by corporate bonds from THFC. No re-payment pressure anymore, money is available.

    No one knows, but the spectrum is from worse "he is a damaged good" to the best ' he needs playing time to regain best form, being no longer as young". I believe it is in between.

    I gree it does. , but I don't agree with firing Poch. I was looking forward to new season and so did all and new coach never improves anything right away. H esaeson will have to be sacrificed. We would need to look toward next season. In September? Really? The rule of management you never act when situation is unsettled. Need to wait until things will become either steady bad or steady good. There is no "too late" there. Up unit emotions are there no need to rush. It is when emotions subside things turn really bad, not now.
    Last edited: September 25, 2019
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  9. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    If Pochettino isnt to go then he drastically needs to change his chaotic management style he's now displaying.
    If things rnt working (which they rnt) then you have to at minimum get your structure and basics right be tough to beat until you find some form , use the spine/formation u trust and stick with it.
    His recent antics are beyond bizarre and is giving no balance or cohesion in the side , way too much rotation and banging square pegs in.
    The players aren't enthused by it so rnt buying into it or working hard enough.
    If Eriksen is off then make a statement to the side that he's not part of the plans and if anyone wants to join him feel free because from here on we need players that are commited.

    Lots of the problems he creates himself like playing 3cms Vs lesser opposition that we should be going at for the win , then when we're getting over ran by City n Scum in midfield he only plays with 2 CMs and just stands watching.
    This sort of non plausible decision making or lack of has cost us many a point/game even possible silverware.
    Just basic stuff
    Last edited: September 25, 2019
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  10. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    Got to admire spurporters persistency in defending the indefensible but I do not understand. His comment that Pochettino gets teams out of the mire his record is always he starts off with a good season then loses the plot ie Espanyol Southampton now spurs.He has managed for over ten years and has not won a thing and I doubt he ever will unless some club spends millions on the best players in the world and hires him as a figurehead.Maybe United will keep solskar after their escape tonight it it could be a race between him and poch as to who goes first
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  11. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. He simply left for better pastures. First to England, then to Spurs. He resigned in both instances. I am not 100% convinced that Spurs would need to rebuild. If this is the case, then he, IMO, would rather do that at MU. It is a more risk -more award type of challenge. I am not sure he has the guts to overtake the place where many have been buried already. But I would not be surprised. Then Levy might want to call Marseilles and see if AVB wants to return.
    Last edited: September 26, 2019
  12. Thomas Guest

    I can't agree with Felon more.

    Tinkering at RB pisses Aurier and KWP. Freezing Alderweireld in World Cup year because of contract situations and supposedly Vertonghen now.

    Criticising Wanyama in the media before he leaves; I cannot understand why.

    Pochettino is convinced that there's a need to rebuild unless he wants to slot Lamela into RB, Sissoko and Dier into CB or recall some of the loanees.

    Like what Spurporter said, Pochettino may opt to leave for greener pastures
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  13. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    Rumour mill says Real Madrid want Ericson then Pochettino . Surely Pochettino is having problems with Ericson now so would he want him again?? Spurporter thinks Pochettino only leaves for pastures new so what happens when he fails at Madrid on to Barcelona??? Or maybe he breaks with tradition and actually wins something.Love to see how he would cope with Madrid dressing room who usually control the manager.
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  14. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    He's built a side that lacks proper leadership , the ruthless winning characteristics that are needed.
    Sometimes you need players with personalities who aren't afraid to speak up, call a few shots... Any player that has dared not tow the Pochettino ego stroking mantra has suffered the consequences because he can't handle them.
    That's why Lloris is his perfect 'captain' and there's no taking of responsibility on the pitch.
    That's why I believe a club like Utd or Real would swallow him up n spit him out because his methods aren't suited to clubs that demand stars and trophies not projects and misleading quotes.
  15. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    Mirror? I follow, but don't believe them . They make things up. I have to agree with Felon82, they will swallow him and spit him up. No patience there for his work. Heck, there is no patience even among some THFC fans. Hopefully Levy has enough of it. I would take one game at a time. Saints are coming. COYS!!!
  16. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    It's easy to kick a team when they are down. It's really unfortunate but these mishandled contracts and the lack of rewarding our players who have outgrown these wage restriction and by that account our club if nothing changes. This issue squarely falls on ENIC and Levy's doorsteps. Changing our manager or getting new players won't change a thing. Our mentality as a club needs to change.

    One thing to consider, for all who believe it should be Poch out. If he leaves, say goodbye to the likes of Kane, Alli, Lloris, and possibly Son. We can't underestimate how much these players are attached to him. When a team is unsettled, especially one that plays with a style as ours and the main dis-settlement of that style being the player central to it. All this has led to the dip in form these few weeks/months.

    Our problem isn't Poch, it's the narrow minded view of our owners. If we're to be competing with the likes of Liverpool, City and the other tops clubs, we need to compete on all fronts. Vert, Eriksen, Toby, Walker and all our other top players should have been offered contracts that reflect their performance and quality. That would also allow us to bring in true talent that can actually improve our team and challenge our main top players.

    Again, this is a very critical time for our team. I for one still believe Poch is the man to lead us forward. He style of play, and player management has never been the issue. We need to accept the fact that he doesn't have the last word, when it comes to transfers or contracts. Rather than taking the Mourinho route of complaining and throwing feats, I do respect how he's rather chosen to put his head down and keep on working. Last point to consider is who else is out there. Other than Klopp and Pep, all the remaining candidates are either on Poch's level or beneath.

    There's no easy fix to this issue. I prefer to support the team and the manager, this season isn't lost. Negativity won't get us anywhere either! COYS!
    Last edited: September 28, 2019
  17. Big fran Guest

    Must win game for Poch today?? If he loses?
  18. Preed

    Preed Well-Known Member

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    No doubt from reports from a couple of sources the players were not Happy with Pochettino remarks about agendas and they believe he is the one with the agenda and they expect him to go as soon as he gets the chance.If this is correct it confirms my opinion that he has lost the dressing room and that is always a disaster waiting to happen.
  19. Big fran Guest

    Not heard any thing on agendas? What's he referring to?
  20. Jesper Guest

    I'd say that when it comes to styles of play then in the main then it is about:
    -exciting football
    -football that results in wins
    If the style play is neither then the style of play is an issue. Is the current style generating wins? Is the current style exciting football?
    The player management is difficult to assess without knowing what happens on the practice-ground. When I look at who plays and who does not play then when I look at how they perform then some should be dropped, others should be playing more and others given their chance. From the outside it looks a little like playing personal favourites. & the benching of some, who performs, for reasons that appears to be contract related? Players on the final year of their contracts are the ones who should be the most motivated to perform. So all in all I am not certain of how good or bad he is when it comes to player management.
    I wouldn't sack him nor would I be too bothered if he went. But yes, if we want a lot of money for him if another club wants him then yes he's great, the best manager ever.

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