The Learning Curve ......... That keeps Curving

Discussion in 'Featured' started by Felon82, March 7, 2018.

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  1. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    From the 1st leg we knew what we had to do 0-0/1-0/1-1/2-1 and even as a last Ditch 2-2 would've been enough to take it to ET.

    So of course it ended 1-2 and Spurs bow out of this year's Champions League.

    We started brightly enough and got a deserved lead to take into the interval.
    (Great 2 away goals and a 1-0 home advantage almost there)
    Out we trot and gift Juve despite the quality they have 2 sloppy goals.

    Now we're up against it, what's Poch got up his sleeve to claw this back ..... That's it you guessed it Lamela just when Juve were closing up shop congesting the middle on trots Lamela just to congest it even more.

    Width what is it that makes width and pace so bloody hard to do? 10 defenders in an 18 yard web with 4 of our forwards all holding hands trying to line dance through it while the rest of our team fans out across the half way line.

    On comes Llorente and to his credit actually started to get involved trying to force something from some high balls put in and Kane who's only real contribution tonight was a whisker from rescuing the day once again, but all to little too late.

    We threw a golden opportunity/position away tonight.
    When will we ever learn?

    There will of course be a large chunk of the fan base who'll tell us how proud they are and it's something to learn from but the fact of the matter is when it Counts and I mean really Counts they've not Got it and Neither has Poch.

    We drew & beat Real Madrid during possibly their worst month of the season where they were also beaten by a newly promoted Spanish side in the same week, we also beat a Dortmund side that is struggling to keep pace in the Bundesliga this year.

    In truth Juve were the 1st decent Side we faced that are playing at the level they are renowned for. And what hurts the most is not only did we match them we positively bossed them at times but sloppy school boy errors gave a kamikaze finish to this tie.
    That and once again Pochs very limited in Game management Juventus weren't in the game this is top European Football manage it see it out kill the game !
    Leaders on the Pitch Dembele/Jan/Kane rally/galvanise the team get the result!

    Instead we're leisurely doing nothing a needlessly high line predictably passing it around side to side just inviting Juve back in and they didn't need much did they.

    Another complete nalls up tactically when it Counts.

    Overall it was a great fixture and Credit to Juve who know how to get the big results , but can't help feeling we blew that one.

    When's it ever gonna happen at Spurs aye , projects/transitions/Learning curves = 0 trophies.

    Need to finish in that Top 4 now and have a bloody good go at the FA cup!
    bruski and Remy Uwilin like this.
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  3. LukeGee Guest

    Ridiculous to say that just because they dropped the levels as they did and allowed an excellent juve team turn this tie around that we can't be proud or learn from it.. Its these losses that young players learn from, including poch, and how they bounce back now in the league and fa cup will be a defining moment.
    I agree that his in game management needs some serious tweaking, conte/mourinho as boring as they are would never have let a 2 goal cushion slip, but like the players a learning curve..
    The next few games before city at home is where we'll really see the character of this team after such a bitter disappointment.
    To not be proud of this inexperienced CL side who dominated a tough group and were whiskers away from beating a top top very experienced European team over two legs is just nonsense COYS
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  4. Del Guest

    I agree with most of this article ..... how many times do we put ourselves in a great position then it’s always the same outcome so when will we learn and when will this change ??? We were the better team over 2 legs but it’s always stupid errors and lapse in concentration that costs us time and time again !!! Despite this, it’s not the end of our season we still have a lot to play ie top 4 and all important fa cup which will really cap another good season off domestically ! So go all out and win it .... COYS
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  5. bobsonic Guest

    To have a dig at Poch is ridiculous. What manager can you imagine could have come in to take over from the AVB, Tim Sherwood mess and create a team like the one he has created? So we lost today but maybe the bigger picture means this side is still learning and with this progress they continue to do do. Its hard to take for sure. So genius, who do thing could do better than Poch under the constraints that are imposed by Levy? Dream on if you think it could be better. We are punching above our weight and this manager has given the paying supporter, you know the ones that go to games, a lot pride and enjoyment. Lets get Poch sacked and really go backwards eh?
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  6. MP-DXB Guest

    Sorry - I have been a spurs fan for 50 years. There were good times but the bad times are continuing too long and with current day excitement, nothing changes much. It is the same old Spurs - we never learn.
    Juve?- come on !. Both the angels and devils knew that after the 1st half JUVE would try to hit us on break. Unfortunately MP with all his ability could not visualize that?
    On top of that we played a fair game - Ok in 1st half - that is what was minimum expectation. There was no passion like in the 1st game - Dier and Trippier were dreadful. Eriksen was a shadow. Kane lost the killer and worker bee instinct? The backward passes never stop. We get a corner and the ball is shoved back to our keeper? The shots - the power and accuracy is always missing. So many Corners we get, but we very rarely pause threat! These are basics!! So MP unless you fix the basics, the aggression and passion in every game - yes every game - we will be the 'same old Spurs' - Players will go, MP will go and we scratch our heads and butts again?
    You know, the talent and players we have are far better than any team. But that one deadly factor is missing. Why do City win like they do? They have players covering every position every time because the hell they want to win every game! Look at some of the crosses we ourselves zip across the goal mouth or in the D - we never have someone to pounce back - but Son did for his goal. He was the one in tears at the end. poor soul.
    It hurts, can't go on. I can go on realistically. This is for MP more so than for audience (like a reply from him - why did you not play Wanyama instead of Dier? ) The cream we created will go! The same players will perform for others what they lack for us. What a shame!! Season over. The same mistakes will be repeated and I expect Swansea to dump us out of FA.
  7. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    This one was very hard to take, it falls mainly on MP. Allegri made some tactical changes and we had nothing to counter that with. Once Asamoah and Lichtsteiner came on, Trippier and Davies were overwhelmed...rather than instructing Son and Eriksen to drop more; us being 2 goals ahead we kept the same formation. At home, 2 goals ahead...why not settle in and make it hard to be beat, especially after they equalized and we were still ahead with the differential.

    Furthermore, we got two down and on comes Lamela in the 70th minute and Llorente in the 82nd...we have Moura on the bench, we needed width and crosses in the box. The players showed no sense of urgency, in the last 10 minutes they put only about 4 crosses in the box...had they managed a few more we could have been a bit more dangerous. It's a shame, we still lack leaders in our team...especially in the back with Toby out.

    This one for me falls on MP, Allegri made adjustments while Poch just watched. I'm a big supporter of Pochettino, but tonight wasn't his night.
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  8. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    Like the optimism!
  9. Big fran Guest

    Juve are much more than a decent side felon if we're honest but I have to agree poch should have tightened things up and reacted quicker in his game management. Alli played well but was on a yellow so I'd have pulled him for wanyama and gone 451. Thought lamela did quite well tbh.
    Look how allegri had no qualms in taking star man off higuian to see the game out. Could we not have taken one or two offensive players off.
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  10. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    Theres no calling for Pochs head here, but I am calling for Poch to use his footballing experience/intelligence to react to what is happening and the situation.

    With Spurs it's always some sort of 'Learning Curve' , something that is only a sound bite if the same thing is delivered every time the important result is needed.

    And I for 1 am fed up with the same sound bites that are never remedied.

    Poch is not beyond criticism, why is he from the driving position in the tie not shoring things up?
    Why are we still playing the high line when you could see the zip and press was going from the teams legs?
    As Fran pointed out why have we still got 4 forwards on the pitch at least 2 had gone to sleep/ineffective?
    And as others have said above Juves manager made the big decisions and turned the tie around, while Poch for all his talent just stood and watched and then panic threw Lamela on and later Llorente.

    Poch at times is so Blinkered in his Philosophy that he likes to bang on about that he can't see where and when it needs altering to suit the game.
    I'm all for attacking pressing football but there are plenty of times in football where you have to tighten up, sit back, go long, go wide, nullify, double up, and make changes to suit especially from a leading position.

    That is a Learning Curve that needs to be Learnt very quickly!
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  11. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    And another issue in our Team is the sheer lack of Winning Mentality and Leadership!

    Look at Chiellini last night and Buffon the bar they set in want and desire once they had their lead they were willing to die for the cause and it sets the bar for the rest to follow suit.
    Leading Marshalling talking digging in!

    I'm looking round our team littered with good some great players but where's the Leadership?
    Jan as good as he is always looks like he's got 1 eye on his hair style, Dembele blessed with all the attributes to be a worldy plays most of his football in the safe zone and always looks like results aren't the be all and end all in his approach, Lloris is like a mouse and is in no way commanding of his box or defence, then your looking around at ....

    Jan and Dembele are coasting towards the end of their careers with very little to nothing in medals to show for it and the vibe they give off despite their top abilities is almost as if it's not important. These are the players that should be Governing what's going on on the pitch, the 2 goals we conceded if you watch back is players not concentrating/talking/marking properly the 1st goal as predictably the balls crossed we've got 6 defenders in the box all standing ball watching Trippier Jan Dembele all gaurding the front post Eriksen Dier and Trippier not picking up either of the 2 danger men at the back Sanchez the only 1 to spot a player who got the flick on was still holding hands with the front post 3 some and the flick on finds Higuaine unmarked at the far post.

    Ok they've scored lapse in concentration it happens -
    now where is the pulling together ?
    The organisation?

    Then 3 minutes later Sanchez goes to close his man down with the ball as Dybala makes his run through the space that's created and neither Jan or Trippier even saw him waltz past , (why hasnt the defence squeezed in like Juve did to protect their lead) only when the ball zips through to him do they react and it's too late by then.

    2 goals that could be completely avoided with some talking/organisation.
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  12. Pickleman1967

    Pickleman1967 Member

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    I sense your pain and frustration mate, there wasn't a Spurs fan worthy of that description who didn't feel pain and frustration tonight. We had them by the balls and we let them back in with some sloppy defending.
    I agree with you that Lllorente was a poor sub (I believe he will always be a poor sub for Spurs), surely Moura would have been a better choice against aging defenders? Also, Trippier for a game like this? No threat from the right? Whatever, Tottenham should have put the tie to bed with a second goal in the second half when they were pulling Juve all over the place, they didn't do so and they got punished. Sh*t happens, that's football, after 10 minutes of the away leg most of us would have said a humiliating exit is inevitable. At least we had a competitive game tonight.
    The positives I draw from tonight's CL funeral;
    1) Levy/Poch, tonight illustrated why we need more depth in our attacking options. Both are intelligent men, both know it is "bad business" in every sense of the word not to address this. I think Spurs will continue to invest in youth and potential, but this "wake up call" will surely help to loosen the purse strings in the transfer market.
    2) Poch to Real Madrid? F*ck off, not after this display. Some Spurs fans may have doubts about the man after another European night of misery, not me. There is no-one better to manage this club, he may yet become a Tottenham legend.
    3) Let's have it, I (along with most Tottenham fans I suspect) knew we had little or no chance of winning the CL. When the group news came out with us in the "Group of Death" it seemed even more likely that our CL experience would be brief. As it happens we done okay.
    Now we HAVE to focus on the one trophy we can win, the FA Cup.
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  13. Cheshuntboy Guest

    We went into the 2015 League Cup final having thrashed our opponents a few weeks earlier, and lost; we went into last year's FA Cup semi against the same team, supposedly to prove that we were the best team in the PL, and lost; last night we were given a masterclass in the art of WINNING by Juventus, and I'm coming to believe that Pochettino, whatever his other abilities, is simply not a winner when it really matters. Winners can become losers, as AVB and now Wenger have proved, but making the jump from nearly men to top of the podium is far more difficult, and it's GOT to be the FA Cup and a CL spot now, if this season isn't going to be another let-down, another false dawn.
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  14. Big fran Guest

    In the end we went out with a wimper. Harry had an off day and others didn't turn up to help him out apart from Sonny.
    Second striker goes on with five mins or so to go and we don't give him one meaningful cross to attack as poor as he is.
    Finish the game still with a back four rather than a three or maybe a 2. Moura a 25m plan b signing bought for his pace and trickery doesn't get on with a sub to spare.
    Juve changed their tactics constantly thru the game while poch scratches his head.
    They start in caution mode with 3 cms. Then they concede and its don't panic mode we will get to half time and re evaluate mode. Take centre mid off to open up and nick a goal and spurs will go into spursy mode. Score goal we smell blood mode. Second goal back into caution mode defend with your lives see it out mode.
    So who was in charge of the tie really???
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  15. guesty Guest

    we got beaten by tactically better management decisions at half time...and through the second half
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  16. dnoll5

    dnoll5 Member Blogger

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    Sorry, but if you're ripping this team apart, you're either emotionally invested and still feeling it (I get it), or just plain wrong. That's it.

    Juve are excellent. On their day, one of the best 5 sides in the world. They have talent and experience at every position. They have won Italy 5 times in a row and have finished second in the CL twice in three years. I know it's hard for some English football fans to believe this, but other countries' teams are good too. Maybe even better. GASP.

    Let's analyze it for a second. This is a Juventus team that didn't give up one goal at home all last group and knock out campaign. Not one. We got two after being down 2-0 in the space of 9 minutes. We should've been done and dusted in Torino, but this team fought. Did you honestly expect Spurs to come in to Wembley and lock down a team with Higuain, Dybala, Matuidi, Sandro, Pjanic, and more? That team is full of dudes who know how to win a two legged tie, Spurs don't have that yet. They waited for their opportunity, and they pounced. Then, they do what Juve does best: like a sponge they easily soaked up our pressure.

    Tip your hat to the better team and cheer us on as we win the FA Cup.
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  17. Pickleman1967

    Pickleman1967 Member

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    I agree with almost everything you say there mate, but I don't agree that Juve were the better team. Spurs were a goal up and in cruise control. Credit to their manager right enough, he made his subs while Poch made none, and that tipped the balance in their favour. Even then, we came back again, and if that last minute chance wasn't cleared off the line, we'd be talking about Tottenham's quality and determination winning them the tie (we'd have won in extra time, I'm confident). However, such fine lines between success and failure in sport, football in particular.

    Whatever, agree with you about the FA Cup. COYS. :)
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  18. MagicSlim New Member

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    This was an excellent CL run and the loss was to a side who were just as good and certainly more experienced - we were not embarrassed in any way nor should we be. We gained experience from this and will put it to good use on our road to greatness. We looked every inch CL competitors. They deserved a penalty in the first half, Chinnelli should have had a red and they should have received more yellows for cynical defending but none of this would have changed the result. They won't go any further is my bet.
  19. bruski

    bruski Active Member

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    Yep Remy. We all love Poch and what he's done, but to see him on the touchline with his trademark pen in hand looking shell shocked was not what I wanted to see.
    FFS after their first goal it was clear to see the Allegri had made a significant two man tactical change, and what was Poch's response.....nothing but to keep playing in the same formation and the same way. Their first goal told him everything he needed to know about what was coming and he did nothing.
    How can you be losing 1-2 at home with 1o minutes to go and not use a final sub? He only used to feckin subs!!! Was it just me our were we all screaming at the box/in the ground to gamble with Moura? We're losing so give SOMETHING a go!!
    Yes we're punching above our weight which we have all agreed for ages is a supreme testament to Poch, Levy and the club. Tottenham forums have been bemoaning the fact that Poch has no Pan B and sadly that was very evident against Juve.
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