Spurs-Wolves, 1st of March 2020

Discussion in 'Featured' started by Jesper, February 28, 2020.

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  1. Luckyluciano New Member

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    Well said Felon not sure what one or two others are on about Jose gets 15 million therefore he should be able to improve players what a crock the squad is done Dier Jan Toby Rose etc etc have spent the last few season being run into the ground also makes different who's in charge the squad is/was and will be for sometime complete unbalanced can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear we all know who's to blame. Levy, ENIC and to some extent the great Poch every week win lose or draw the same arguments arise play 442 or 352 etc etc no manager anywhere can legislate for individual schoolboy errors and the majority of the goals we are conceding wouldn't look out of place on a Sunday morning down the local rec


     
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  2. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    He may not but at this moment in time it's a fact so if anything he's done well with the circus he's been handed.
     
  3. THFC Guest

    Let’s try and iron this out.....below are the available players we have and the country that they actually represent - 16 x full international’s, without mentioning our best/injured players, so enough for a match day squad.

    Please can someone explain how this squad of players can be described as having no quality?

    These players represent their respective countries, please tell me how anyone thinks this group are worse than most, if not all of the teams from 5th place down?

    Lloris -
    Gazzaniga-
    Alderweireld-
    Vertonghen-
    Sanchez -
    Davies -
    Dier -
    Winks -
    Foyth -
    Aurier -
    Ndombele -
    Fernandes -
    Alli -
    Moura -
    Lo Celso -
    Bergwijn-

    I understand that we do need players, especially fullbacks but we should still be able to put in a good performance (not necessarily win but play well) with this group.

    I’m pretty sure JM doesn’t have us attacking all week in training then when they all turn up on match day they decide to drop 10 men behind the ball and then launch passes upfield.

    The way they play is a direct reflection of the instructions they are given.

    I’m not sure where the list of random manager names came from because I haven’t seen anyone ask for any of them.

    But if whoever mentioned Benitez thinks that he would sit deep and defend with this squad clearly hasn’t ever watched his sides play. Maybe we would lose week in and week out 4-1 instead of by the odd goal, maybe we wouldn’t, but at least we would try and play football rather than sit deep and let other teams dominate
     
  4. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Lloris- error prone dreadful kicker aswell
    Gazza- not a No1 decent enough back up
    Toby- quality but on the slide due to age
    Jan- quality but even more on slide
    Sanchez- error prone poor reader of game
    Davies- extremely basic lacks pace
    Dier- sloppy in possession not a CB or DM
    Winks- lightweight bang average
    Foyth- awful error prone player
    Aurrier- awful error prone player
    N'Dombele- lazy can't get fit
    Fernandes- not sure what he is/does
    Alli- inconsistent contributes odd goal
    Moura- inconsistent contributes less goals
    LoCelso- runs about no goals no assists
    Bergwijn- fresh looks promising
    Tanganga- fresh looks promising still raw
    Lamela- runs about when not injured
    Parrot- scores goals at u21 n reserve level
    Skipp- plays when no 1 else is available
    Sissoko- runs about lacks any talent
    Wanyama- was decent can't run now

    That's the team/squad we have to date.
    It's short, limited, unbalanced, way too many weak links, has no leadership & lacks pace.
    I'd say not 1 of that bunch gets/improves or holds down a starting place at any other top 4 side in the country most wouldnt improve teams mid to lower end of table.
    Alli on 1 of his 5 decent games a season maybe, N'Dombele if he can ever bother to get fit and that's it. (Old Jan n Toby would've not current over the hill Jan n Toby tho)

    Or do you genuinely think these players individually and collectively are better than this?
    Coz I don't see it, minus Son & Kane I wouldn't expect to see that squad challenging for top6 let alone top 4 it's painfully average and badly put together.

    As Lucky Luciano has alluded to Mourinho just because he's paid a lot of money doesn't mean he can turn players into something they're not, players are either top quality or they're not.

    It's been our utter failure in the transfer market that has us where we are at currently and that's on Pochettino & Levy who never bothered to improve or make competition for places because Kane n Son were there to carry it, just enough for top 4 while others were sh;te.
    Many clubs have proactively improved while we put our fingers in our ears and trusted/believed in Poch despite all evidence pointing to a slide & decline.

    Now people want to jump on the back of the new guy who's not only dealing with this sham of a side but who's actually only been outpointed by the 2 best managers in the league who've been backed for numerous seasons whatever happened to time patience were in a transition......

    It's actually embarrassing, people need to take the rose tints off realise where this team really is quality wise and accept the best we can hope for is the FACup.

    Personally I'd write off even trying to get Europa to swerve the whole distraction.
    Attack the summer window with buying new FBs, a CB, a DM, a Striker minimum and I'd savagely get rid of the stock pile of non entity error prone injury prone half hearted wage thieves and hope to bolster with anything made from such a collective bunch of flops.
     
  5. THFC Guest

    It’s funny, I agree with absolutely everything that you have said below...100% but also think we could go through most PL teams in exactly the same way.

    I just can’t understand why some people (like me) think it’s painfully obvious that JM hasn’t improved what we do have in any way and won’t no matter who he signs yet others think that in the summer, with a few signings that he may or may not get (because Levy probably won’t spend) he will change his style, the current playing style and turn us into a more attractive/dangerous side.

    I really believe that all he has done and will continue to do is turn us into a posh Burnley

     
  6. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    I am not saying this as a fact and I don't think many are either but he has to be given a reasonable chance to do this with his own built squad.
    And that's the point I'm getting at, he's done alright with what he has and inherited but currently how can anymore be expected?

    He needs to be given funds for a rebuild, 2 FBs 1 CB 1 DM 1 Strk as a minimum and all of a starting top 4/6 standard.
    Else how can anyone realistically think we should be playing good football and challenging?
    If he's not going to go about improving these areas personally then by all means get on his back next season especially if we're still serving up this disjointed slop but the guy needs his own players and time to be fairly judged.
    If Levy as we all presume will not give him or support him properly with the rebuild then that is another issue.
    But I'm waiting till then to judge.
     
  7. THFC Guest

    Sorry Felon, another couple of things...the only reason for the turn in opinion on JM is the performances so far this season as I and lots of other people wanted to give him a chance in the hope he would have adapted his style to fit today’s PL. He hasn’t, so I for one would rather cut my losses early and start again with someone like Allegri.

    Mentioning the outpointing makes no sense because many people have said many times, it’s not the points, it’s the performances.

    Aiming for the FA Cup after consistently challenging for 2nd as well as progressing each year in the Champions League is not my goal for the club. We managed to achieve a lot and despite the change in form, we have way more experience and still have heaps of pace in the side we do have available. Again for me, it’s the coaches role to get the best out of what he has available but he isn’t and no amount of men in our third will help change that. If what we have isn’t working, he should try something new, that’s what he is paid the big money for, surely?

     
  8. THFC Guest

    Fair point but he won’t get the players and IMO we will be saying exactly the same this time next year about our unattractive, defensive style.

    I do hope that I am wrong though...

     
  9. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    There's no point in being the most entertaining side to get relegated, it's a points based business at the end of the day especially from a side that's got so many issues.
    It was a poor 2nd half display from us Vs Wolves but at HT we were beating them 2-1 how many other side's are doing that v wolves without their best stand out players available?
    The 2 goals we conceded were through distinct lack of quality defending not because we didn't try or stuck 10 players behind the ball.
     
  10. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    We can go round and round in circles on this.Just accept as with pochetino some will love Mourino and some will hate him.I don’t think he has improved us and yes he has a ageing and in some cases lazy squad.I am prepared to see if he can turn it round with a good transfer window but he was involved with this window and didn’t buy what was needed but did agree I assume to Fernandez and felon you query what he is as a player .he also must have agreed to lecelso being signed permantly and once again felon you don’t over rate him so do you trust him with more money or not???
     
  11. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    JMs brand of negative 10 men behind the ball has created 40 goals from 23 games and has 3rd highest points tally in that time.
    Yet it's not attacking enough or good enough for some regardless of who's missing n how limited the personnel are.

    It's crazy talk
     
  12. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    So Fernandez I'm sure JM saw we needed legs in the middle of the park and a bit of box to box ability that Dier Winks N'Dombele can't/don't offer especially in the absence of Sissoko. He's on loan so is a stop gap n possibly being given a chance to get a permanent move?
    LoCelso can't be faulted for effort and in a side that is carrying so many passengers I can see why Mourinho made his signing permanent but let's not kid ourselves is running around gonna compensate the goals n assists of CE? It's not, but it was not his initial sanction to sign him.
    So really it's only Fernandez & Bergwijn you can judge him on ( in a January transfer window) and I'd say Bergwijn has made an impact and has been good value for money.
     
  13. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    Felon you have not mentioned why he didn’t buy at least one defender this window as he seemed only interested in trying to sign another back up striker.Nothing I or anybody else who have reservations about Mourino will convince you to criticise the man so we wait with bated breath for the end of the season and then we will see what transpires
     
  14. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    What transfer budget was he afforded ?
    If it was only 25 mil then he did what he could with it and bought Bergwijn who's been decent.
    I believe he was interested in the Benfica CB and will probably go back in the summer for him.
    The summer prior to this season is where the defence shouldve been sorted out anyone with an ounce of football knowledge called that at the time and if these things aren't addressed this summer then by all means criticise that. (Because I certainly will) I just personally think it's unreasonable right now.

    No one can seriously say that January is the time for a rebuild and a great time to buy a new side it just doesn't happen unless big big cash is thrown at it.
     
  15. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    For the record-

    I'm no advocate of JMs brand of football, I'm not saying he's gonna be a success, he's not beyond criticism either no one is.
    But moaning because the football hasn't been vintage enough for some when he's clearly got someone else's average squad missing it's best players yet has still got results is farcical.

    Anyone would think we were playing champagne football before his arrival we weren't and are weaker from player departures.
    I'd suggest it's a deck clearing exersise like Poch was afforded in his 1st full season with us.
     
  16. Cheshuntboy Guest

    I'd decided to keep my views to myself, at least for a while, but the ridiculous rush to criticise Mourinho is too much to put up with. Back in 2008, Levy sacked Ramos when we were bottom of the table, appointed Redknapp, and the next season we'd qualified for the CL for the first ever time. I always was a fan of Harry, but I don't think he's a miracle worker, and the turnaround in our fortunes was very largely based on his ability to motivate a good squad (including Bale and Modric remember) who'd lost direction under the previous bloke.
    Fast forward to 2019, and the 'lost direction' bit was clearly still true, but Mourinho wasn't taking over a good squad; he'd got a disparate mob of malcontents (Rose and Eriksen), permanent crocks (Lamela, Wanyama, plus Kane and Lloris, it now seems), players who've gone backwards despite Pochettino's legendary coaching skills (Alli and Dier), bought players who've never justified their fees (Sanchez, Aurier, Foyth and now N'dombele), and once good players now obviously past it (Alderweireld and Vertonghen). How do you mount a top four challenge from that?
    I don't think for one moment that Mourinho fully grasped what a mess Pochettino and Levy's combined efforts had left us in, and whether he's up for the total rebuild we need is anybody's guess, but to launch into him after barely three months (in which the loss of Kane and Son is just the garnish on the **** sandwich) is taking impatience to new levels, even for Spurs fans - give the man a chance!
     
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  17. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    I’ll settle for that, or we’ll never move on.....win tomorrow Jose...
     
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  18. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    Just when I decided to give the Mourino debate a rest he appears on sky and when asked if there would be big changes in the summer he replied no.When asked why he said because it was not needed and because of the provider?I assume he means Levy.He said the squad needs strenghthening but nor massively.Does that sound familiar .Anybody else think we don’t need massive changes even if only to get the defeatist attitude out of the club.If he does not think we need big changes why are we so poor at the moment???
     
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  19. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    Well there’s a surprise. He who pays the piper call the tune, it’s simple. With no CL that will remove close to £100m from the revenues and it limits the attraction to top talent. Add to that we are a seller of players nobody wants, so there is no seed corn cash, result....decline..........
     
  20. THFC Guest

    I’m not sure why, despite repeated attempts to clearly ecplain it, people still talk about a dislike or lack of patience with JM which is not true, I actually find him as a manager quite entertaining.

    To me, the point is simple....we haven’t improved our performances enough with the players that we do have to make the change justifiable when there are other managers who I believe would have done a better job.

    I will continue to support JM and am not criticising his transfers because he only has made a couple. I cannot accept that because we have scraped points to put us in an artificial position, things are better.

    As is being proved, we can just as easily scrape a defeat as we can a loss and if we continue to sit deep then that’s what I fear will happen.

    I still hope that with some signings in the summer, he will change his style of play and try to get us forward quicker but his style at every previous club hasn’t been that. If he carries on as he has in the past, he will leave with us in a much worse position than he picked us up in and any rebuilding will take that much longer.

    I genuinely hope that he doesn’t though because when he was successful in years gone by, he won everything and I would take anything as an improvement.
     
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