Spurs-Norwich, FA-cup, 4th of March 2020, who wants it more?

Discussion in 'Featured' started by Jesper, March 4, 2020.

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  1. THFC Guest

    Krul is better than Vorm but no better than Gazzaniga
    Aarons is better than Aurier although I think that could be said about most RB’s in the PL
    Then you have lost me...not one of the starting players from Norwich are better than what we have available.

    The fact that they are putting in poor performances is down to confidence, desire and passion - all of which has evaporated.

    Winks & Skipp couldn’t get in the Norwich side? Don’t agree with that I’m afraid.

    Dier and Sanchez both full internationals (and both need to be sold for different reasons) but they are still better players than the CB’s at Norwich.

    Honestly, I would sell quite a few including Ndombele who clearly couldn’t care less and Alli who is so overrated, unbelievably lazy and careless.

    I think we will never fully agree on this but I still believe that the reason the performances are so bad is because of the setup, style, tactics and attitude that JM is managing into them, not because we have the worse squad in the league.

    Do we need GK, LB, CB, RB , DM, CAM, CF - yep

    Should JM be utilising the players that we do have currently with a system that works better for them, I think it’s a yes also.

    I agree with you that the fault is with Enic and Levy for not backing the growth of the team when it was needed most but I also blame them for selecting a manager whose style is outdated and doesn’t suit the PL any longer.

    Again this debate will rumble on but to keep referring to the fact that Kane and Son are missing makes no sense because every side is missing key players now pretty much and as much as it’s a nightmare for us, other clubs experience the same trouble.

    Which other club in world football, outside China, would want to take JM off our hands? Certainly none of the top sides in any league in Europe


     
  2. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    Just wondering what has caused the total demise of our great club because although some players are obviously getting older and most people on this site think we only have duds on our playing staff this is not the full picture. Most of our players would struggle to get in another premiership team at the moment but most of them are current or former internationals so there must be talent of some kind there.I believe it started with Pochetino who tactically had not got a clue and played players out of position on a regular basis and did not see the weaknesses arising in vital positions.We had the best back four in the division but let Walker go and did not replace him.Harry obviously covered up a lot of our weaknesses because he had 2 unbelievable years but even then he was getting injured and luckily Son was filling in.No back up striker bought and pochetino let our Spanish giant leave on a free.All this time pochetino insisted we did not need any replacements as we had a strong squad.throughout this time this site was full of poch lovers saying in him we trust.Were are they now???
    I still believe that we have more talent than is being shown.Ali is a good player who has lost his way Winks will be in the england squad where Southgate uses him in a specific way to suit a certain system.Sanchez ndombele decelso Aldy vertongen Foyth bergwijn Moura Gedson all current internationals so does this make all the international managers idiots.As I said I believe under pochetino we had become disorganised and lacked discipline and believed that Mourino would turn this round but unfortunately I don’t think be can especially without Kane and Son working miracles.I do feel for Mourino because he was sold down the river by Pochetino and levy but we really need a someone who isn’t protecting his reputation all the time and is prepared to upset a few people.
     
  3. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Krul is as good as Gazzanigga and Lloris he probably makes less mistakes.

    You need to ask yourself from a neutral pov - you say none of the Norwich players are better than what we have available but then are any of the spurs players actually better than them in turn?

    Would any Norwich City fans be thinking I wish we had players like Skipp Winks Dier Sanchez Lamela Aurrier Vorm Gazzanigga Davies etc? The answer would be mostly no because none of them improve or better any premier League side from 4th down to Norwich that's how average they are.

    Then it's Alli Moura & Bergwijn , which they may be a bit more sort after coz they score the odd goal but none are players that anyone else is gonna be banging the door down for to improve their sides.

    If you believe any different of course that's your opinion but I'd say it's delusional and rose tinted.

    All functioning teams need balance without it you can't get a rythm or philosophy going that's why other side's look better.

    When we did string a few passes together we looked decent the game was 50/50 in most parts but that's because player for player there's not much in it as much as some wish to believe they're better they're not.
     
  4. Spurporter Active Member

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    Being an average G, Krul is one of the best in Europe and arguably in the world, when in comes to penalty shots . Van Gaal used him exclusively for that when in charge of Holland (subbed him in on 120th minute in 2014 WC, Krul saved 2 pens). Spurs had no chance to win on penalties.
     
    Last edited: March 5, 2020
  5. Spurporter Active Member

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    Rare instance I agree with Felon82. There was nothing wrong with Spurs performance, like it or not. We lost because of Vorm's error and Krul performance in goal during penalties. We can blame referee and VAR for not calling Krul's cheating, but not Mourinho. That is how he plays, that is how he won his trophies: give the ball away first hour and score from dead ball or counter attack and if not leading after, go forward and attack, but not sooner than that. He needs his "postmen" for that. He lost all at Spurs, so his tactic is doomed, but he can't play anything else.
    It was a mistake on his part to take on thin squad Spurs are, but he hoped to make it deeper before it haunts him. It happened sooner that he thought.
     
  6. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    Spurporter when did felon say there was nothing wrong with spurs performance I think I missed it??
     
  7. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    I walked out at 90, couldn’t take any more. We missed the final penalty when I was a mile from home, at least it was a PB return journey ......worse than shite.
     
  8. Guesty Guest

    out of our complete squad.... which players would the PL top6 (or top10) want?
    there's the problem.... our players are sh1t.
     
  9. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Well-Known Member

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    Krul has saved 2 out of the last 20 penalties he's faced, excluding shoot-outs - that hardly qualifies him as one of the best penalty-saving 'keepers "in Europe and arguably the world"; Lloris, in game-time, actually has a far better record and I don't rate him as anywhere near the world's best. Let's go further; last night Vorm saved one of his from 4 taken - that's a 25% success rate, a figure that could be used to suggest he's probably in the elite 'keepers bracket, but he's not - two standout clangers, one costing the equaliser, ensured he stays in my "you're not very good" category - so statistics can be applied anyway you like to prove anything you like. You're either believing far too much of this Krul Superman nonsense or you're dreaming it up yourself. If Lamela and Fernandes' penalties hadn't been so Godawful poor, if the referee had paid more attention to Krul's crass antics, including genning up on the stuff written on his bottle between each kick and where he was in relation to the goal-line when the kicks were taken, then maybe Krul wouldn't have appeared to be the Penalty-saving Marvel you're convinced he is. That may have altered things, maybe not, though it certainly wouldn't excuse the dreadful, woefully inept team performance that preceded, it would only have masked it.
    Also to say that Mourinho bases his tactics on giving the ball away for an hour - spare me please; a fair percentage of precious possession is lost with Lamela and Moura running that last yard up a blind alley when an earlier pass could be more beneficial or Dele trying yet another fancy flick more at home on Playstation. The game is primarily about possession - it's having the ball and doing the right thing at the right time with it that is THE major factor in winning most games. Tactics ? What abject nonsense.
     
    Last edited: March 5, 2020
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  10. THFC Guest

    Who has said that? No one that I have seen...the JM tactics some of us mention are nothing to do with deliberately giving the ball away or asking Lamela or Moura to run like they are being chased by something. Certainly no mention of Alli constantly attempting things that he’s not capable of or that have no real impact ever then sulking and walking back.

    The tactics I think are the problem are sitting on the edge of the 18 yard box with 5 defenders and having 4 midfielders no more than 5 yards in front of them. Not pressing to close the ball down when other teams are in possession. Not passing the ball forward shorter than 50 yards. It’s either sideways, backwards or punt. Not having the whole side move up the pitch when we attack, as a unit, the midfield push then there are massive gaps for teams to exploit when we do eventually give the ball away. Persisting with Aurier. Changing players positions in every game. Playing players out of position. Changing players in every game. Playing formations to suit a system that you believe works but not having any players that fit the system. He’s so bad I’ll mention it agin, persisting with Aurier.

    To call that nonsense is your opinion but that’s what I see week in, week out so to me that is far too defensive and doesn’t suit our available players. Just because you and Felon may not both agree, it doesn’t mean anyone else thinks you are both talking nonsense (I don’t want to name anyone but there are clearly people who have the same view as I do and clearly some who don’t), it’s just we have different views on what we are watching and how we are interpreting the squad and performances.
     
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  11. THFC Guest

    Like normal, I agree with everything you have said here

     
  12. Guesty Guest

    I just can't get it out of my head....
    Aurier is the worst RB I have seen at the club in a very long time.

    NDombele, Moura, Sanchez & Gedson are soooo bad for the money we paid for them.
    One failure okay.....but all four.
    It's a disgrace.
     
    Gordon Mc likes this.
  13. Luckyluciano New Member

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    Got what we deserved really went a goal up and then tried to see the game playing deep conserving energy not sure why we started with two holding midfielders looking at the squad it would appear Jose was hoping to get through by boring the opposition to death and due to the players available trying to save players for other games again not sure why probably would have been better if we went for it and failed at least it would have been better to watch over the internet loads of posts saying with the quality in our squad we should be beating teams like Norwich seriously what quality apart from Son and Kane what do we have Jan did okay but needs two weeks off between games Alli who allows his frustration get the better of him he made runs in the first and Lo Celso (who may turn out to be decent) chose to pass the ball to Moura who is a willing runner but never looks where he is going or even looks to pass Gedson Stevie B (may develop in good squad players) ah Aurier a player who can be brilliant and absolutely shocking with 5 minutes then there's Ndombele not sure what he is or what he may become definitely not worth 60 million could go on but your probably get bore suffice to say we are pretty awful and will continue to be due to piss poor recruitment and investment but it's ok because our revenue is going up all the time and ENIC will be busy counting their profits also boycotting games won't work the majority of clubs make their money from TV money and unfortunately we love our club and will continue going no matter what happens
     
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  14. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Well-Known Member

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    See Spurporters previous post regarding tactics at 16.57 "Give the ball away first hour..... etc"
    Certainly each to his own opinion and each interprets what another posts in his own way but you've taken points out of context - I amended my post to remove "deliberately" as it gave the wrong message, I never said Moura & Lamela were instructed to run up blind alleys, that would be ludicrous, and Alli's failings are mentioned by many others on here, not only me. It's what these players do, and do regularly, though what sort of idiot would ask them to do that as part of a plan - Mourinho doesn't, obviously, but can't seem to get them to do otherwise. My point - read it again - is that Spurporter's analysis of Mourinho's tactics suggests (and he states it) surrendering possession for the first hour. I see that idea as nonsense, my opinion obviously, and that a large percentage of possession is lost through careless play, helped (but not exclusively provided) by the three named individuals, not through instruction or coaching. I would have thought it was plain enough to see but obviously not. As regards tactics - I wouldn't get drawn into a discussion, each person sees his own best/worst in that sphere and is welcome to it. I'm commenting on a dire performance and another's (to me) strange interpretation of it. Oh.... and a flawed (to me again) analysis of an average goalkeeper.
     
    Last edited: March 5, 2020
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  15. THFC Guest

    Agree, we should sell all of them while they are still worth something

     
  16. THFC Guest

    Sorry, I did indeed misread what you wrote and having read below do agree with what you are saying

     
  17. THFC Guest

    Great summary

     
  18. Gordon Mc

    Gordon Mc Well-Known Member

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    Not a problem at all. We agree or don't, that's what makes interesting debate mate.
     
  19. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    I just can't believe people look at our current squad n think it should be playing better.
    We've sold or loaned all our dodgey back up full backs and haven't replaced them so have just 1 for each position who neither are any good.
    We sold our playmaker who was consistently our highest assist maker (and a decent goal contributer) and haven't replaced him.
    We sold Dembele and have replaced him with a crocked N'dombele and a mixture of Winks.
    We've sold Wanyama and the only real DM we now have is Skipp.
    We had Janssen & Llorente as senior back ups sold them and you guessed it didn't replace either just promoted a 17 yr old that doesn't play.
    And then we Lose Kane & Son.

    Yet we've got people expecting better football and bemoaning tactics.

    What's available is what's available and that's a group of disjointed average calamitous inconsistent unbalanced passengers that have been allowed to get away with sub standard performance for far too long because they're clapped no matter what and have no serious competition for places or a proper bar set by the club.

    It's a breeding ground for failure and half heartedness
     
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  20. Spurporter Active Member

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    I stand by my assessment. JM do not play possession football. No one gives the ball away intentionally, but we do not move forward as a unit (again for first 60 minutes or so), leaving ball runners with the choice to either lose it or at best to earn a corner or free kick. Those, the dead ball kicks in the last 3rd, are precious to Mou.
    I summary, Spurs are playing Tony Pulis football. Well, that is a little excessive word, but you get my point. The thing is a teams like Norwich are familiar with it, they used to see it among bottom feeders, and just try not to make mistakes on which such approach is striving. Even when mistakes are maid, it requires performers able to capitalize on them. I agree, those are absent from the lineup being injured, being at Juventus or , in case of Dele or Lucas, not being at top form, but to blame those who are still available, to discharge the supporter's frustration on them is unfair. They just a tool in the hands of Mourinho, they do what he instructs them to do. Plus, the Aurier's shot could easily go in, crowning the Spurs game end domination with victory. Mourinho approach could have brought a required result, should he was a little luckier. I would give him time.

    Krul is a recognized shootout specialist. His in-game penalties saves are not relevant. Shootout is a different art that includes running to supporters, getting to the bottle and other tricks intended to get into shooter's head. He was successful. Referee could have gone after him.

    Bad result and bad performance is not the same. And I leave it at that.
     
    Last edited: March 6, 2020

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