Shkendija-Spurs, 24th of Sep 2020,

Discussion in 'Featured' started by Jesper, September 24, 2020.

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What is an acceptable outcome?

Poll closed September 26, 2020.
  1. Any win will do as long as there are no injuries

    3 vote(s)
    75.0%
  2. A win with a clean sheet and no injuries

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. A win with possession football, many goals scored, clean sheet and no injuries

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. There are no possibe good outcomes

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%

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  1. Jesper Active Member

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    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54272598



    Apparently a full strength team is flying there, will a full strength team play?
     
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  3. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    Location:
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    Must be careful what I say or the guest and others will be on my case.A good win but once again a frustrating performance.Dominate game and find ourselves one each half way through second half.neededto bring on Kane andDecelso to correct things.Must say ndombele started to look the real deal while Winks once again contributed nothing as didAli and Davies and surprisingly Bergwin.Just accentuates the need for another striker.I am so sorry to see Ali perform as he is because we all know there was a footballer in there somewhere.Come on Levy one more push for a centre forward and centre half and Mourino may have something to work with
     
  4. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    When 95% of your team look the same level as Shkendija you know you've got some seriously sh;t players.
     
  5. Spurporter Active Member

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    So the remaining 5% are better? It is less than one player. You mathematics sucks, Felon.
     
    Jesper likes this.
  6. Spurporter Active Member

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    Spurs could not be any stronger, except for goalkeeper. The Macedonian score demonstrated why has Hart been dismissed by his previous clubs.
     
    Bazza47 likes this.
  7. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    Cringeworthy performance first half, with Dele again off the pace and Winks having a shocker. Not the right position for Dele to be fair, but he has zero pace and seems to not know when to press or drop in. Both should have gone at half time.

    Ndombele’s first full game me thinks and he was better, but not good enough - a step in the right direction.

    We do struggle against this sort of side, a painful watch two weeks in a row for sure, we just can’t seem to break down the two rows of five, at any level....hey ho!
     
    Jesper likes this.
  8. Preed

    Preed Active Member

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    Location:
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    Agree with Bazza47 but why do we have these cringeworthy performances against teams that Liverpool and City would probably score 6.Listening to Mourino on the touch line you feel the players can’t produce what he wants especially with closing down and that is why Ali was pulled.Winks is different because he does not know how to go forward and he can’t defend.What does Southgate see in him??
     
    Bazza47 likes this.
  9. Big fran Guest

    Names in the hat for next round. Home tie v easy opponent that's what matters. Effectively preseason game isn't it.
    On a spurs fbook page few days ago and I stated that we should cash in on gazza aurier foyth rose winks sissoko lamela moura CCV and sign 3 big signings that go into the 11. Dias/skirinar, Partey and Belotti for example. To which a spurs fan says. 'you can't trade all them players for 3 new one because we need them for rotation.. Can't write it can you??? Rotate with what? The dross we are seeing, each other or the lads who perform welll every week?
    Why do fans get so emotionally attached to sub standard players. I don't get it.
     
  10. Guesty Guest

    I didn't think Hart had much chance with a decent strike.
     
    Jesper likes this.
  11. Jesper Active Member

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    A win is better than a loss and a few players who might have been close to getting to start got to start. The conceded goal was a wonder-strike, possibly the closing down could have been done better but if that guy scores goals like that on a regular basis then he'll soon be in a better club.

    It looked like the team lacked the killer instinct, if a second goal had been scored when leading one nil then the other team might have lost the will to fight and then maybe (not sure if it is even a maybe) it is ok to let performance drop. The great teams know that winning is a habit and once performance has dropped then it is not certain that the same level of performance can be reached again.

    The not regulars:
    Alli, not sure still. He appears to do well in grudge matches with full stadiums, possibly that increases his motivation but with COVID going on then he'll need to find another way to raise his game. Maybe he'll be reduced to coming in when chasing matches.
    Aurier, solid performance.
    Bergwijn, not playing in his favoured position and that might be making him look less good.
    Lamela, scored with his weaker foot and did not concede stupid fouls. Puts in an effort.
    Moura came in, he might be more comfortable than Bergwijn on the right.
    Ndombele, seemed to be doing better than before. Possibly he's doing better with the empty stadiums.

    A couple of matches into the season and it does not look like the team can do the high press for longer than a couple of minutes at the start of each half. After that is seems like the players don't know how to do it. With matches coming fast then I am not sure that it can be learned this season so it might be that defending deep will be the tactic for the season as the high press isn't being done well.
     
  12. Jose's Ghost Guest

    The team isn't set up to press. Yes here and there in isolation but not thematically like Pep's Barca or indeed Pochettino's early Spurs sides.

    Jose typically doesn't want the ball... ie. possession is not his aim. His preference is to attack quickly and directly into space and generally you create that space by inviting the opposition forward and allowing them to overextend themselves. Sir Alex enjoyed this caveat... humorously (or not) his United were always most dangerous when defending corners. Of course sometimes an opponent like Southampton will mystifyingly give you all the space in behind you could want by playing an absurdly high line manned by slow centre-backs.

    You can defend from the front and still play direct a la Klopp's gegenpress and Spurs will attempt to do so from time to time (Moura often being good at this) but generally unless chasing a game Jose is not going employ the high press as a team tactic.
     
  13. Jesper Active Member

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    Yep, Mourinho does not aim to have possession, he aims to win.
    To me it looks like he would like his team to win the ball up high as a winning the ball up high might quickly lead to a scoring chance against an unsettled defence. But for whatever reason the pressing up high isn't done well.

    From the documentary I have the impression that Mourinho wants the press, instructs on how to do the press but there are players who prefer to defend deep and drops down to defend space rather than to push up against their man.

    Moura good at the press? He's as far as I can tell one of the worst at doing the press....
    Moura often has to sprint towards the man he's supposed to be pressing - which to me is a clear indicator that he was too far away from the man he was supposed to be covering. Maybe he doesn't trust that others are doing their press so he tries to do their pressing as well and ends up chasing shadows.

    As is, pressing needs to be done as a team and it is currently not done as a team. I have no idea why, possibly the wrong kind of players, possibly not practiced enough or possibly Mourinho provides other instructions than what was seen in the documentary.
     
  14. THFC Guest

    I’m with you on this...what’s the point of keeping players that don’t add anything, especially when Jose tends to prefer smaller squads to work with.

    I would sell Aurier, Foyth, Rose, Lamela, Moura, CCV, Dier, Sess and Sanchez then send Gedson home.

    Try to sign Diaz and Skrinar along with another CF. Depending on the sale value also try to pick up another CM that will screen that can actaully pass.

    Give Alli and Ndombele another season and if no improvement look to replace them both next season.

     
  15. Jose's Ghost Guest

    Every manager aims to win... surely that needn't be said... just as it should be obvious that there are different ways to achieve that outcome. Some prefer to dominate possession (eg. Barca tiki-taka or 'death by a thousand passes') while some prefer to defer the ball and instead wait for and punish the opponent's errors with swift direct counter-play (cue Jose). The only time you'll see Spurs dominate possession will be against sides that want the ball less than we do.

    I have explained to you why the team does not systematically press. It is not my opinion... it is basic well-established football theory and something that has always been synonymous with our manager. Jose likes forwards that defend for the reason you mention... that is indeed the foundation of Klopp's lauded gegenpress... and the reason Jose loves Moura (who works his ass off and wins plenty of ball up the pitch) despite his lack of end product. But again the team will not high press in numbers on principle (unless chasing a game) because 1) it requires a high line and 2) it pulls the team out of shape. Both are elements that can potentially expose a side defensively... Jose's nightmare.

    Our manager is exceptionally cautious and pragmatic... cynical if you want. His style has been very effective (with loaded sides I might add) but is ultimately shite to watch. This again is well-established... Jose's teams have never won any awards for style even when dominating their respective leagues.
     
  16. palmover Active Member

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    Do you expect to do all that business this transfer window?
     
  17. palmover Active Member

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    The squad balance looks a lot better than this time last year. Still need a lead the line CF to give Kane a rest, this window.
    Cb is a position where Spurs will have to add one player, if it didn't happen this window it wouldn't be the end of the world, however, i do think spurs will bring in a Cb over the next two windows, to replace Toby.
    Spurs need another ball winning CDM to compete/partner PEH. I don't think this will happen this window.
     
  18. palmover Active Member

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    The arrival of Reg, Doh, Peh, and bale make spurs a stronger team with the revival of Ndom and the improvement in Loco when all are fit and raring spurs will have a very strong 1st 11.

    Attack/midfield squad options: Moura, Winks, Ali, New CF, Lamela, Sisoko, berg,

    I took the liberty of adding a CF, however, when i look at the balance of the back up players Sisoko is the one that could be swapped out for a CDM. Lamela or Moura could be moved on however, both are good coming off the bench as impact subs. Winks or Ali could be moved on, there will me some tough calls for Jm and spurs to make.

    The key is how many games does the strongest 11 play together.
     
  19. Jesper Active Member

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    Before Mourinho came to Spurs then I might have watched his teams play maybe 2-4 matches per year and in those matches his team always played a good/great team so for me then I can't say that I've verified the well-established football theory. The sample is too small and comes with a bias (high-stakes matches are in my experience often boring no matter who is playing) so I'd need to watch a lot more of him.
    But does that theory possibly come from the same people who describe the end of Pochs tenure as him being sacked by a trigger happy chairman only a couple of months after leading Spurs to CL-final and having a few bad matches early in the season?
    If so, then those people appear to not shy away from selecting the facts that fit their narrative while ignoring other relevant facts.

    Most modern managers appear to like to have forwards that also takes part in the defending and as you say Klopp (who is also a top-manager supposedly more modern) also like it so I am not sure if I get your point?
    & I've explained to you (and that wording is something that I find condescending but since you used it then I guess you are ok with it) that when I see Moura doing his press then I do not see him doing it well, I see him running hard but not effectively. You appear to see it differently so we might agree to disagree.
     
  20. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Are you accusing 'Jose's Ghost' of being selective with the facts and condescending? Surely not!
     
  21. THFC Guest

    Not enough time now...we could try to exchange one and maybe sell two. Other than that they will be here until the next window and beyond I would imagine

     

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