Keep calm and support Spurs

Discussion in 'Featured' started by dnoll5, January 28, 2019.

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  1. dnoll5

    dnoll5 Member

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    Two cup exits in four days is not a good thing, I’m sure of that. But judging by the noise coming from the internet, you’d think that it was the end of the world. Let’s examine why it isn’t.

    First of all, it’s been mentioned about ten billion times that Tottenham would’ve gone through if the old away goal rule still existed in the League Cup. Think about that please. A Spurs team with no Kane, Dele, Son, and others and hanging on to a tiny one-goal advantage, went into Stamford Bridge against a full Chelsea XI and did what we would consider an excellent showing in any year that the rule change didn’t exist.

    I’m sorry, but you can’t just change your standards when the rules change. People would’ve been applauding Mauricio Pochettino’s tactical nous in getting the exact result he needed. Llorente’s brave header would go down in lore, and a depleted Spurs side would’ve been in a final and put the pressure on Sarri’s Chelsea to “get their season back into gear.” Instead, we are faced with drivel questioning whether Poch is a winner or not. I would love to see a team go into Stanford Bridge in a semi-final without three of their four best players and get a result. But Spurs did. In every year but this one, Spurs did. Would the media destroy Klopp if he’d lost at Chelsea without Salah, Mane, and Firmino at his disposal? Unlikely.

    But you also have to remember that things got worse in that Chelsea match for Spurs. Ben Davies got hurt, as did Moussa Sissoko. A depleted squad just got more depleted and we are surprised that Tottenham lost to Crystal Palace?

    Look at that lineup! That starting XI featured four or five players that get regular minutes for Spurs. Kieran Trippier, Eric Dier, Jan Vertonghen, and Davinson Sanchez. Lucas makes five but is coming off an injury as well. That’s it, five. The rest were made up of a hodge-podge of players who are on the fringes or have been in the youth ranks: Juan Foyth, Kyle Walker-Peters, Oliver Skipp, Georges-Kevin N’koudou, and Fernando Llorente. Crystal Palace played their strongest eleven outside of Luka Milivojevic that they could and were playing in front of a home crowd.

    And personally, I’m happy that the manager sat Christian Eriksen, Harry Winks, Toby Alderweireld, and Danny Rose. We need them for the league and the Champions League. Anyone prioritizing this FA Cup over those simply in the pursuit of silverware is being shortsighted. Remember back when Spurs were routinely in the Europa League? I remember about 75% of the fan base crying and whining about fixture congestion and a Thursday-Sunday schedule and actually wanting the team to lose in that competition to free up some training dates and resting time. That’s exactly what happened at Palace today and yet everyone is acting like the roof is caving in. Poch can’t win, no silverware equals failure. C’mon.

    I know that the people opposed to this article will bring up the lack of signings. Fine. I get it, but I feel like the manager not making signings just for the sake of making signings is a sign of two things. One, it’s a sign that he believes in his system and the time it takes to get a complete understanding, and two, he needs the right players. There is no guarantee that Spurs will be in all competitions right now if they’d signed some players. I seem to remember players like Vincent Janssen and Roberto Soldado who never meshed and never worked out and cost more than we offloaded them (or will offload them) for. What would you be saying if Spurs had bought some players and this week’s results still happened? No one can say that it definitively wouldn’t. Would that be better?

    Sure, it would be nice to have a bigger squad, but we don’t. The squad is the squad and it still dominated Palace for large portions of that game, especially the second half when Erik Lamela came in.

    I’m sick of it. Silverware doesn’t necessarily make you a winner, and not winning a cup doesn’t make you a loser or someone “unable to win” as so many have labeled Pochettino. City are going to win the League Cup and will make a deep run and probably win the FA Cup. Not winning cups now is totally different than it was even ten years ago. City have basically bought each of the domestic cups as they are the only team that has the depth to make challenges on four fronts. Why should we compare ourselves to the oil billions of City? We don’t compare ourselves to them in passion, philosophy, global support, or anything else, but we feel obligated to compare ourselves to them when it comes to winning trophies? It’s a ridiculous comparison and even if it is a tangential one, isn’t what this team’s supporters are doing? Isn’t it what the media are doing?

    The only manager that I’d trade Pochettino for is Pep, and even thinking about it now, how much could he win if he wasn’t handed every resource possible at every turn of his career? That number would be very low. So let’s just hold off on the sky is falling narrative. As Spurs fans, we need to corral it because the national media will not. Nuance isn’t their thing. They will keep labeling Pochettino as a loser until he wins a trophy. It’s going to drive him off at some point. He could easily go back to PSG when they get sick of Thomas Tuchel and win three cups per year. Does that automatically make him a winner?

    No, because he already is one.
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  3. Justin Guest

    Brilliant article!

    I agree with almost every word. Although I do share the frustration of others that under Poch we have arrived at a plateau ( albeit at a high level) and we all know what needs to happen to move higher still. But we also know that's extremely unlikely to happen.

    I reject those comments suggesting Tottenham are the new Arsenal but I do hope the leading figures in the boardroom aren't going to settle for a cosy top 4 spot each season.

    Tottenham are close to being so much more than that.
    Mick and Remy Uwilin like this.
  4. Graham Guest

    I think in years to come what you have stated about domestic cups will become clear . I am old school being 59 and still struggle to put top 4 over a domestic cup . Yet deep down know that to the modern player it is . They desire the nights in CL as much as a medal from a domestic cup final . Frustrating thing with a little more fortune we could achieve top 4 and a domestic cup . MP has set his sights on PL and CL as real glory and if he picks up a domestic cup along the way then to him that is an added bonus . I thought in League Cup this season he picked sensible sides that won at WHU and Arsenal plus the first leg v Chelsea before injuries made second leg very hard . Perhaps MP thinks League Cup is the better one to target as the semis are finished before 4th round FA Cup . The FA Cup eats into the second half of the season when top 4 is the main concern for MP . Who knows a miracle could happen and we do what Chelsea did when they finished 6th and have all the luck going for us and win CL . Then we will laugh about the defeat at Selhurst as a minor bump in the road on the journey .
  5. I wouldn't trade poch for pep. I you get to pick all the best players you tend to win. Sure he can win pretty and that's nice but he would sink where he doesn't have all the money in the world exactly because his tactics only work with all the best players

    Poch is performing miracles with the level of resources at his disposal. Unfortunately, winning stuff against 4 other teams with dramatically higher resources means hoping they all slip up.

    But our long term strategy is to hope we attract all the top talent into our youth teams We are still about 3-4 years away from seeing this start to kick in, so we do need patience but it should provide the kick we need in the long term
    Mick likes this.
  6. MikeySpurs Guest

    Same old drivel. Same old ‘don’t rock the boat’ ****. I stared supporting Spurs in 67 BECAUSE of winning the fa cup. We’ve won it 8 times. It’s the biggest part of our history. Playing the weakest Tottenham team in years shows utter DISRESPECT for the world’s oldest and best cup competition and more importantly for OUR history, our club and our fans. Poch is easily the best manager we’ve had since Burkinshaw but he doesn’t understand how we feel about winning things. Just for our ego? Really? That’s such an INSULT!!!!
    Gordon Mc and Felon82 like this.
  7. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Right, let's fall out

    Now we're back to the glory in failure mantra and the punching above our weight nonsense.
    These are all self imposed needless restrictions that Poch's inability to actually scout or be bothered to find better players to bolster our ranks, and a board that has invested £9mil into the team in 10 years.
    Focusing on look at all our poor buys , we can't find anyone to improve , we shouldn't compare ourselves to winners why not believe there are plenty more good players that can improve our team and we should be going after them, realising that a number of our squadies are simply bang average and aspire to more, more quality, more competition etc
    This team is not as good as it was 2 seasons ago , the football isn't anywhere near the same quality we've gone from a finely tuned engine to a dirty diesel that's now running on fumes.
    That's not progress and doesn't look to be going anywhere currently. I have previously said about projects that don't have anything tangible to show for them it's in human nature for the belief to start to wonder, how anyone can say we're going for the League and CL with a straight face is either dellusional or a fool and if your not seriously going for either and your only interested in top 4 then you/we are the new Arsenal.
    Now we all get the game is completely money orientated and that top 4 is where the big bucks are over trophies which is fine IF THE CLUB ARE PUMPING THESE RICHES BACK INTO THE TEAM in pursuit of better but they clearly aren't , and while our fan base crow about how well we're ran we are constantly flirting with it all falling apart due to lack of hunger to make the next step , CE and Toby both are heading towards the exit , Dembele and Walker have gone , this is not the signs of a club progressing or a club that sends signals out to top players to join whats the USP- you have to get us in the top 4 but don't expect top 4 salary, Trophies? Well we don't really care about those, and we won't be challenging City etc for the League but there's always a few European group stages to showcase your talents in so sign here today and we'll argue about a contract extension in 2/3 years if you're any good.....
    It's a project doomed to repeat itself over and over and over again!
    Jesus Christ the sheer fact we're again season after season picking the bones out of another crash saying the same stuff just shows something's gotta change for us to progress and all this in Poch we trust, slowly slowly, building is utterly demoralising or living in pure denial of reality.
    Last edited: January 28, 2019
    Gordon Mc likes this.
  8. Cheshuntboy Guest

    We really have moved in to an Orwellian world, because every other pundit or blogger now seems to be saying that trophies don't matter - they're only a mark of success for people who don't understand modern football, in other words the fans, whose money actually keeps the pantomime on the road. If City and Chelsea are preordained to scoop the lot, how come Leicester snatched the PL from under OUR noses (not City or Chelsea's) in 2016, or Arsenal managed three FA Cups in four seasons at a time when they'd supposedly ceased to be serious contenders for the top trophies?
    Pochettino is endlessly credited with 'transforming' Spurs, but from what to what? As I've previously pointed-out, his record at WHL is spookily similar to Redknapp's; one losing League Cup final and two lost FA Cup semis, one fifth and two top fours in their first three full seasons; neither won a damned thing but at least Redknapp didn't denigrate the competition that was once synonymous with Spurs, and Pochettino's explanation for our CL exit against Dortmund (which I think is near-certain) or our falling-out of the top four (which I'm starting to believe is a serious possibility) will be quite something - he'll probably go back to his interpreter, to add an extra layer of obfuscation to his normal incomprehensible ramblings.
    Gordon Mc and Felon82 like this.
  9. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    I think the crux of the split is not that we do not all support Spurs it's more what we are actually supporting about Spurs.

    Incredibly it seems that there is a dying number of fans who support Spurs in wanting them to win Trophies , have our days in the Sun , fill up the Trophy cabinet , give us all the memories and history/markers.

    Then there's this new breed who seem to have this support for a weird buisness model that operates on taking as much as is possible from every revenue stream and spends absolutely F-All on the team relative to today's market.
    Somehow finding anything non football related to get excited about, like record attendances in a borrowed stadium, biggest screens in Europe, climbing walls....
    Flaunting all the above as if people are thinking wow.
    While also scorning anyone that thinks winning things is somehow negative or not seeing the bigger picture.

    It's confusing times, but this latter bracket of support I can't believe have ever won anything in their lives or even played sport at a decent level because winners don't have such a passive accepting attitude, no one ever got to the top of any sport/profession by accepting second best as enough.
    Gordon Mc likes this.
  10. MikeySpurs Guest

    Agree 100% with you Felon82. Deliberately steered clear of the whole Levy/the board thing. Don’t get me started on that one. Lewis sunning himself in the Bahamas with plenty in the bank to pay for the stadium himself. If he cared that is.
    Gordon Mc and Felon82 like this.
  11. Hootspur51 Guest

    I too am old school and the trophy issue needs addressing. But this article represents reality. How much stronger a team could we have put out in the circumstances? Not a good performance, but even I have to admit that if we beat Watford this week and maintain our momentum for next season's CL, then I can swallow the Palace result.

    The transfer issue also needs addressing. However Poch can only do so much. Yes we would like a bigger squad with quality in depth, but we are not Chelsea or Man C, who bought all their trophies with oil money. The club's only route is to buy/develop talent and it has worked big time. No matter how big the talent if the attitude is wrong then there is no point in pursuing a player. Why should we expect other clubs to sell us their best players when we want to hang on to our stars?

    We may have plateaued a bit this season but compared with where we have languished in the past this is a fantastic advance.

    Either you have faith in the Manager and Chairman, or not. Instead of criticising Levy for a net outlay of £9m, look at the money he got from our sales. Would you prefer to swap places with Everton and their £100m layout in the last transfer window? No? Thought not.

    Our turnover last year was just £10m behind Arsenal. Once we pass them, then we will have overtaken them in every respect - bar one and we all know what that is!

    My Sunday was ruined too; but in the circumstances I back Poch's selection even though my son would not agree!!! Poch does make mistakes but I believe that he learns from them. His philosophy is spot on for the club. But he needs to take the emotions from the fans for what it is and learn from it. As the club proudly proclaims in requoting Danny Blanchflower, the game is still about the glory not just the balance sheet.
    smiler smyrk likes this.
  12. smiler smyrk New Member

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    I have been supporting Spurs since 1967, and I understand both `camps` arguements. On the one hand Spurs have a history of FA Cup wins (but not since `91), and the other side is, nowadays, the real sign of a successful Pl team, is finishing in the top 4 and having a good run in the CL. With the cost of the new stadium, Pochettino has not been given any finances by Levi, to improve his squad, so he is NOT to blame. A lot of Spurs fans have very short memories, and even shorter fuses, it is depressing being knocked out of 2 cups in less than a week, but Pochettino cannot be blamed for resting Eriksen, Anderviereld and Rose, as league games and a CL game are coming think and fast.I for one, would rather finish in the top 4 of the EPL, than win a cup, it`s all down to a matter of opinion. The main thing, is for `real` Spurs fans, to get behind their current manager, (who was being sort by Man U and Real Madrid over the past few months, he`s that bad !), and have a go at the people who hold the purse-strings. Finally, some of the players have let us, and the manager down badly recently, after being given a chance to `step-up`, they`ve failed badly, Trippier, Moura, Lamella, Lorente, Davies,Wanyama, and Aurier. For me, it was down to mentality in both cup ties, poor sloppy starts in both, poor finishing in both, these are what really cost us, I would hate to have Pochettino`s job !
  13. George p Guest

    Whatever the club do are all based on the financial interest of the club not for the sake of glory. The only league that levy and Co are interested in is the deloitte financial league where we are doing better and better every year. However, that will not translate into any investment into the playing squad, as we have seen in the past 10 years. It will be absurd to think that we can't identify the right player to improve the squad. We just can't find a good player which is dirt cheap and have low wage demand that want to join a champions league team. The club won't mind if it goes on another five years without winning anything but the players and fans do. I wonder who in the right mind who want to join a CL team without CL wage package and isn't seriously competing for anything.
    Gordon Mc and Felon82 like this.
  14. smiler smyrk New Member

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    I too started supporting Spurs in that FA Cup winning year.I too think Poch got his remark badly wrong about ego`s, but I think he had little choice fielding the team he put out, imagine if any one of either, Eriksen, Toby, or Winksy, had played and was seriously injured ? It`s already a nightmare scenario for Poch, but he`s been put in this position by Levy and his financial restraints.
  15. Big fran Guest

    It was an absolute horror show. Poch got it oh so so so so wrong. Think he was gambling an Palace fielding a much weaker side. Eriksen and winks should have started and maybe rested Wednesday
  16. Spurporter Active Member

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    No way would Poch risk 3 points over the advancement into 5 round of FA Cup. Spurs got 70 millions for getting into UCL knock-out stage. You need to win 10 FA Cups to get that amount. We got the same money last year. We need to do the same or better next season. Poch works for Levy, who values Pounds over Sterlings His job is to get Spurs in next year UCL. Domestic cups are viewed as fringe benefits, not as priority.
    Mick likes this.
  17. Genevaspurs Guest

    Big Fran how can you say that? PL games are more thougher and difficult than a game like yesterday. I understand that you are frustrated but I would prefer To win the next 2 games and To stay up in the table than a win in a FA cup before an exit in the semi final vs chelscum or man city... Son, Moussa and Kane Will be back soon and we Will be happy to stay upper than arsenul or united. It's the main thing for us ! Ok that would be easier if levy would let some money To buy a good holding midfielder and another top striker but we can dream for a long time...
  18. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Which is a disgrace and everything that is wrong with this club.
    It's an insult to the history of our club and us fans.
    Gordon Mc likes this.
  19. Spurporter Active Member

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    I've got an easy fix for the problem. The FA should award its cup winner a place in UCL instead of 4th place team in EPL.

    Or better yet to have a Super Cup game between the winners of PL and FA cups for that very UCL spot.
  20. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    I've always liked the idea of 4th being scrapped in favour of the FAcup winner it is the 'champions' LG after all and in most sports 4th wouldn't even get u a place on the podium.
    But still even when Europa LG was a route into the CL we couldn't even pay that competition any respect which was scandalous in my eyes , for a club our size it's probably realistically the biggest Trophy we could win yet we treated it like a hindrance which is like I said earlier it's everything that's wrong with the club.
  21. P reed Guest

    Really can't believe some of the previous garbage written by poch lovers especially the one from the USA.No problem with him being in the USA but has he ever been to a match in England.The team picked for palace was an insult to fans .Why was Nkoudou playing when it is obvious that poch wants rid and he showed his class by missing two simple chances and the less said about trippier the better.walker peters is a promising right full back/wing back so play him on the left and leave rose on the bench.Having seen the draw city and the two Manchester clubs have a free run to another trophy unless they adopt the poch philosophy and play all the players who have not kicked a ball in anger for them .All this talk about saving players from injury is nonsense as proved by Kane injury happening when game was over.I don't doubt poch has done a good job with no help from levy but some of his buys have Been disastrous to say the least.I just want to see him show some nous and let levy know what is needed.Any other manager worth his salt would have resigned by now.Just seen solskar on sky saying that United can't win league this year but they are after winning trophys and will give it everything in FA cup

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