Spurs improvement a myth

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Mattj78, May 15, 2016.

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  1. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    Do I start with today's game, or the season as a whole?
    Let's get today's game out of the way. It was a pathetic, disgraceful performance. Awful in every sense. From walking out onto the pitch, the players looked like they had already gone on holiday.
    Newcastle, already relegated had a partisan crowd behind them and looked hungry to win. The Spurs team looked bored, bored, bored.
    My first question ahead of kick off was why Ben Davies was chosen to start ahead of Danny Rose. Rose wasn't injured and Davies is nowhere near as good.
    Eriksen looked like he was asleep, Lamela grafted and scored his goal. Son showed moments of skill but is still a long way from being a first team player.
    And then there is Ryan Mason. His lack of application is appalling. It felt like he was showing his displeasure at getting injured and then being a bit part player. Against Chelsea he had great chances to score. Today he was truly awful.
    I think Pochettino is a good manager learning his way and can take Spurs forward. However, he has made one mistake this season. When Vertonghen got injured, Wimmer came in and formed a solid defence with Toby. Vertonghen came back to fitness and immediately Wimmer was dropped. Basically, Pochettino went for reputation over performance.
    Since the return of Vertonghen, Spurs defence has looked shaky. If I was Wimmer I would be furious. Why change things when they are going well?!

    Kyle Walker has shown in the last 4 games why he just isn't a premier league player. When he gets forward his crosses are poor but his defending is terrible. He fails to track back and is not really a team player.

    There are no other words for today than pathetic.

    So, I now turn to the season as a whole. And this is difficult. I want to put emotion aside but I also want to be honest as per my point of view.

    Let's get the elephant in the room out of the way. Before this season, would I have been happy with 3rd? Yes. But that is irrelevant. As the season unfolded, it started to become clear that Spurs could challenge for the title. Playing great football, pressing the opposition and with Alli and Kane working so well together, Spurs really looked the real deal.
    However, when the likes of United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal were all so poor, you have to take your chances.
    Leicester have been the story of the season. They have taken advantage of the poor form of the big guns. They have been organised and resolute. Compared to Spurs, they have been boring to watch, very much like a Mourinho team. But they have stuck to their guns and importantly changed their tactics when needed. That has shown the maturity of Ranieri.

    Much had been said about Spurs lack of experience in terms of challenging for the title. Other than Robert Huth, where was the title experience in the Leicester team?

    Much has been said about how far Spurs have come this season. We have, according to the experts become a team ready to Challenge for the title every year. The end to this season shows that to be a myth.
    This season had been odd in the sense that so many of the so called top four were so poor. It gave an opportunity for other clubs to take advantage.

    But when it came to it, Spurs became Spursy. Lacked bottle, lacked commitment and today they showed utter disrespect for the fans.

    Next season, will Chelsea be as bad as they were this season? Unlikely. Man United is anyone's guess. City will be up there and Liverpool under Klopp with his players could be ready to mount a title challenge.

    And Arsenal. We have finished below one of the worst Arsenal teams in a long time and that makes finishing third and behind them all the more frustrating.

    So where has it gone wrong?
    The lack of investment. In the summer and in January it was obvious we needed strengthening. What happened? Nothing. And that is down to Daniel Levy. Yet again he has failed the fans and this club.

    A lack of discipline. Although Chelsea players goaded Spurs players, the Spurs players were unprofessional and a disgrace. The manager should have changed things at half time but left players on the pitch who let everybody down.

    Goalkeeping. I find this bit hard but I have been disappointed with Lloris this season, I really have. Many talk about the points he has saved us but how many has he lost us. Against Southampton he cost both goals. His work at set pieces is awful and his distribution is non existent.

    I think we have turned in some good performances this season. The win at Man City stands out and the win at Stoke was a game when I really started to believe we could win the league. But we just imploded after that. The players looked tired and today looked like a team inept and lacking in any belief.

    I doubted Pochettino at first and I now think he's the right man. However, as much as it pains me to say it, we have just finished below one of the worst Arsenal teams in years. Only a point more than Dim Tim.
    That is not really a great amount of progress.

    We have qualified for the Champions league which is great. But this season we chose to toss aside 3 cup competitions to focus on the league and not only did we not win, we capitulated in Spursy style.

    Spurs must sell and sign this summer. We have a great young team but the strength in depth is just not there. Levy must release funds in the summer. This squad has talent and potential. But the final games of the season have proved a very hard point. The Spurs is as far away from winning the league than ever.

    That's not pessimism. It's realism.
     
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  2. Feri Guest

    After the Chelsea game I wrote in this blog that it would be hard for the manager to lift the sprit of the team . He failed to do so and the result was heart breaking.
     
  3. Cheshuntboy Guest

    I can only say 'hear hear' to every point, and ask why we seem to fall over ourselves to see qualities in the coach and the team that just aren't there, and make the inevitable fall to earth even harder. Pochettino teams run out of steam towards the end of the season - that's a fact, along with the lack of a plan B, poor use of substitutes, and favouritism, all of which were apparent at Espanyol and Southampton, and obviously at WHL. His record in buying players is also pretty iffy, and he's won absolutely nothing in management, and yet he's been hailed as our best manager in thirty-plus years on the strength of improved fitness and little else. There's plenty of room for improvement, and perhaps he will eventually become the coach so many Spurs fans seem desperate to believe he is already, but he's far from the finished article, whatever SAF might think (and he recommended Moyes for the United job, remember!).
     
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  4. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Matt if anyone dares speak the obvious on Spurs sites your made out to be a pessimist or a moaner but be safe in the knowledge you are a realist.

    People can dress up any slightest chink of light they can find but the fact remains weve stood still and will continue to, circumstance has us in the CL not progression.

    Poch is massively overated imo, he has brought some improvements but hes not the 2nd coming of Bill Nich.

    Im glad you brought up the Striker issue and how both Levy and Poch let us down and blew a golden opportunity.

    The facts remain still no silverware just treading water, the big teams will be back and if were lucky we'll have another consitent season of the same old- miss out on big targets, have a spell, get talked up, nose dive out of all cups with a mish mash of lets take it serious and then put out a second string team, once thats done we'll cling to the hope of rescuing a 'league campaign' and ultimately fail at whatever circumstance that might be.

    Thoroughly f*cked off

    Levy gloating in his little note to the fans at what a great season it was 1 point better than a season when we had a manager sacked.

    That right there is a harsh reality !
     
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  5. paul black Guest

    A disgrace of a performance,quite right why was Wimmer dropped we have been **** since Jan got back
    and perhaps Jan should have played in midfield.But many mistakes made by Poch and most certainly the players today but why was Mason starting god not good enough
     
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  6. ped Guest

    are you actually being serious?
    spurs have been terrific at times utterly unplayable and you say no improvement?
    yes, i'd grant you that perhaps the inexperience has let us down but we're in the champs league, the third best team in the EPL & considering the arse have had their best finish for years too you suggest it's their weakest team?
    I've been reading a lot this evening from bitter fans blinded by their hatred of the gooners & berating the fact that they've finished ahead of us... get a grip FFS!! go get a good night's sleep & tomorrow will be a new day where we'll realise we're going to play in the top European competition next season & that, along with the money it'll generate & the TV money means that we'll get reinforcements in the summer, the team will have learnt and be a bit more experienced & that things aren't so bad after all.
     
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  7. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think for one moment that Felon or I are suggesting sacking Pochettino.
    What we are talking about is the fact that he seems to be seen as the new messiah , but we are still a very long way from success.
    We need stability and I want to see Poch given his full contract to develop and bring success.
    In certain areas we have clearly progressed. It's not often Spurs have the best goal difference is it?
    But there has been a clear lack of investment and it's all very well Poch saying he wants us to win the league, but on this season we are still a long way away.
    We tried to get close but fell down. Ultimately, regardless of the West Brom and Chelsea game, we still wouldn't have won the league.
    That I can accept. The final few games? Unacceptable.
     
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  8. retro Guest

    Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Loris hasn't had a great season.

    Easy to point the finger at a goalkeeper after we let in five goals but I've been saying for weeks that he has been poor this year. He has cost us goals in important games and I can only think of a couple of times that he has done anything of real note.

    I don't agree with having keepers as captains and he doesn't seem vocal enough to be a true leader. It needs to be an outfield player and Toby or Kane are far more obvious choices.

    Loris also needs some proper competition to keep him on his toes.

    I think Walker has been better this season but he is still not the finished article. I rate Trippier more than a lot of our fans and with Champions League to contend with next season, more game time might lead to him becoming our preferred right back. I'm sure Kane and Alli would thrive on the better crossing into the box.
     
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  9. DAVE THE DUB Guest

    On the money We have shown that some wonderful results are nothing without doing the hard yards WBA,Leicester at home,Newcastle twice etc etc.
    No depth and Mason Chadli and Bentaleb not good enough.
    However some of the football was wonderful. Levy needs to back this manager
     
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  10. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    But will we get investment?
     
  11. What a load of nonsense. You enter a tournament and come third so you are the third best team. The top 3 automatically qualify for the CL which brings money, prestige and exposure and the ability to build the club and attract players. Although we didn't win the league CL was crucial. But heh we didn't win qualification everyone else was useless and list it. 2 more points than Dim Tim in another season - what's the relevance of that? We won't progress next year but everyone else will? So its all doom and gloom. Oh and don't forget to blame Levy. Its been so annoying recently doing well as we haven't been able to blame him. That know nothing knob on Harry Hotspur blamed Levy for allowing Poch to have a meal with Fergie for our defeat against Newcastle. Tottenham have a top manager, a young squad and money to spend. There is a togetherness and yet, as usual, the doom merchants are out in force. Tottenham will improve again next year but who cares because everyone else is going to be miles better so lets not even bother.
     
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  12. G M Guest

    Don't we ever learn, How can we lose to a team that is already relegated and have nothing to play for when we only needed to draw to finish above Arsenal. By comparison we had an easier job because they needed a win at all cost and we only needed a draw and we could not handle that too? Disgraceful. Is this the standard with which we are going into the Champions League to rub shoulders with Europe's best? Forget it. On this evidence I doubt we will even make it out of the group stages. And please let us not delude ourselves into thinking that next year will be better cos the big teams will be bigger and better - Man City Man U Liverpool and Chelsea are all going to improve their squads and challenge for the title so at best we are looking at may be 5th or 6th place. Oh I almost forgot West Ham not to mention Leicester. Today's performance was nothing short of criminal.
     
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  13. james coys Guest

    Havent got the stomach to watch the shambles on tv . There is no doubt we have improved this season and some of the football was indeed sublime. Now lets get real we embarassed ourselves against Chelsea when a win was insight. Arsenal must be laughin out loud at todays result. Poch started todays fiasco by having lunch with Sir Alex and we went on holiday. The players should be disgusted. Lloris prone to errors now And Kyle will always cost us with awful defending. The following must be sold to raise finance and the standard of the team. Carroll and Mason are not premier league midfielders, Bentaleb can go if the others are sold and replaced. Chadli is no cover for Kane and I am not con vinced about Son after a season Njie just dont know he just looks fast but lets persevere. Just needed a draw to be second and I think a place should have been found for Wimmer who didnt let us down.Why no forwards in January? Onumah you must be joking too soon as we need experience. Buy established Mitsuyahmi and Callum Wilson for an inexpensive backup and buy an established cruncher like Wanyama and a goalscoring winger of the calibre of Yarmolenko. The dross were cleared to help us defend now we need more offensive options. The only good thing from today will be a wake up call and that we are not there yet. The results against West Brom West Ham Chelsea Southampton and the team who did the double over us and were Relegated ! Without Dele and Dembele we just faded away with no strength in depth. Poch take note and upgrade!
     
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  14. Guest 1 Guest

    While today's result was very disappointing and embarrassing for a team aspiring to winning trophies, it seems that this year's progress was not sufficient to convince that here we have a team capable of competing for the top awards. Spurs seem to have failed in most of the important and critical matches. The collapse in the last few games is due to a number of factors. As mentioned in other comments, the downfall was due to lack of Plan B when things do not go according to the script. There is no doubt that Alli and Dembele were badly missed in the last three games. It is also true that MP's teams run out of steam before the end of the campaign. Pity that the cup competitions as well as the Europa League were sacrificed for the League. With Chelsea and Man City under new management next season and a renew Liverpool along with a strengthen Arsenal it is not at all clear how Spurs will again compete for a top 4 position. In fact even 5th and 6th positions will not be that easy with competition from West Ham and Southampton.
     
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  15. Mattf1977 Guest

    What a load of b******s. For a long period of this season we looked like the best team in the league, unbelievable team spirit and togetherness with a great manager who knows what he wants from the team. I have not enjoyed a season like this in my life time. BUT 2 major issues have to be addressed imo, we need to finish of games when we are dominating and we have to finish the season playing with the same tempo and drive right until the last final whistle. It was a disappointing end to the season because we had been so good.
    I have total faith that Poch will address this, he is still a young manager learning his trade but I do not believe he will stand for it. You only need to look at the clear out before this season started to see how ruthless he can be and I believe the lack of enthusiasm in the last 4 games has probably sealed the fate of a few players whereas others will be learn under him not to taper off.
    It is only Poches 2nd season and I can't wait to see our progression next year when he starts to address these issues.
    As for the lack of transfers, I have to agree I was disappointed not to see a second striker come in, but we are having a new stadium built which is going to be one of the best in Europe I also agree with Poch's decision to not just buy any top star if they do not fit his philosophy, eg Saldado/ Paulinho.
    We have to stick with Poch and give him time to turn us into a top club, we need to have a long term manager or we will never be able to compete at the top.
    COYS
    F**k off pecamistic t**ts
     
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  16. Nick T Guest

    we've been superb this year ran out of steam as soon as Leicester won it.
    We need 5 quality players this summer and we'll be up there and hopefully win it.
    We're all disappointed right now, but try supporting your team instead of slagging them off.
     
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  17. Bob6834 Guest

    This season has been exhausting for me and I'm just a supporter. Even I've been trying to stop myself thinking about 'next season' as we still had two games to go and needed to finish at least 2nd. Looks like the players were thinking the same..... At least we know a few things now. Losing Alli lost us some something then losing Dembele exposed us completely. Any head scratching about what we need for next season isn't going to be difficult for any of the clubs recruitment and management staff. We've done very well with squad we had but it's not the 'fantastic squad' that Poch has been telling us. The number of academy players, the youth of the squad, the number of English players in the squad is all well and good but what we now need is quality. We now move from being proud of 'one of our own' to another level. It's tougher at the top. Don't you wish we could play another game to get this one out of our system? Trouble is we have to wait months till the next game. Now that hurts. Champions League group stage qualified, 3rd place and I'm pissed off. I'd Taken that at the beginning of the season (how many times has line been trotted out) after watching us give up a two goal lead against Stoke at home. Life of a Spurs supporter!!
     
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  18. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    What a disgraceful end!
    The team has ran on an empty tank for awhile now and ended with quite dramatic crash!
    Stop blaming players, please. Poch is at fault for this terrible loss. He should have known better than anyone that team's engine is cracked, oil have leaked out and there's no fuel left. Not having critical parts (Alli, Dembele) Spurs must have sat back and play for scoreless draw. Instead they ran up and got burnt badly. Hope Poch will learn from it. Looks like he saved Wenger his job. Terrible!!

    Next season the lad on my avatar as well as Mason shall be sold. I would hold on to BenTaleb, as he is young and may be better. At least 4 players must be bought and at least 2 promoted. COYS!!!
     
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  19. Wow Guest

    Wow!

    What a fickle lot you are . You complain about consistency but maybe you should try to find some yourself .

    Matt a few weeks ago you said "As I have said previously, whatever happens, this is a squad and manager destined for Tottenham glory."

    "Whatever happens"???
     
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  20. Ramos43

    Ramos43 Active Member

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    On the surface, it could appear that Spurs had MORE to play for than Newcastle today, but the Ram is hear to tell those people, who operate on a 'surface level' when it comes to football, that, that particular conclusion can be considered misguided, at best!

    You see, because whilst finishing 2nd would've been a great achievement for a young team STILL very much in its infancy, as far as its DEVELOPMENT is concerned, the truth is once the clubs title challenge was ended at Stamford Bridge and automatic qualification for the Champions League was secured, the difference between finishing 2nd or 3rd becomes minimal.

    Would it have looked better to finish 2nd rather than 3rd (factoring in the points difference between 1st and 2nd) ? Perhaps.

    Would it have lead to an extra couple of million in the bank for finishing ONE place higher in the league? Of course

    Oh, and would it have given the more primitive supporter the opportunity to claim bragging rights over our North London neighbours? Maybe

    But when put into TRUE FOOTBALLING perspective, the rewards between finishing 2nd/3rd are, like I said, minimal, at best.

    On the other hand, this was a Newcastle side that were playing for their futures (i.e 'putting themselves in the shop window') - as I don't suspect many of their players will fancy the rigours of plying their trade in less glamorous surroundings next term.

    Emotional drivel aside, if any group of supporters should feel despondent by the events that occurred at St James' Park today, than it should be the ones wearing the black & white replica shirts. Because they are the ones who help pay large salaries to a group of talented players, and have seen little, or no, return on that investment.

    The truth of the matter is, Newcastle should NEVER be in the position they are given the squad they have. I mean, its nothing short of SCANDALOUS!!!

    Undoubtedly putting in their best display of the season so far, it took Newcastle's players to PERFORM FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS, to actually come together as a team - which might be alright in the 38th game, when they are NOT expected to win, and are already relegated, but what happened to the other 37 games before?

    Okay, granted, the SUPERB Andros Townsend wasn't there for the whole campaign to, both, dazzle, and inspire, in equal measure. But extremely talented individuals such as Sissoko, Wijnaldum, Mitrovic, Mbemba and Tiote all were. And what have they done up until today - very little of any note, with the Dutchman within that group being the only exception.

    Anyone remember The Ram saying, last summer, that signing Sissoko could represent a shrewd piece of business by THFC or any of the top 5/6 clubs in the country - even describing the Frenchman as possibly being our very own answer to a certain Yaya Toure (the rampaging version)? Well, before today, he has tried his utmost to make a mockery of that statement.
    And yet his display this afternoon was EXACTLY the reason why I considered him as such a major potential asset to any side with a manager capable of honing his considerable skill set.

    Newcastle were excellent, and Tottenham were poor, today, but that doesn't change the fact that the former will be visiting Loftus Road next year, whilst the other can look forward to potential visiting the Nou Camp.

    So, whilst todays result may of been embarrassing, given the nature of the scoreline, the circumstances and performance, if you ask little old educated (in the football sense ;)) me, I think it is the BEST thing that could've happened to this team, at this moment in time.


    Why - I hear you ask. Well, let me tell ya!

    • The results over the past few weeks will highlight both to Poch & The Chairman that this squad, however good, is NOT realistically ready to challenge seriously on more than two fronts. And therefore requires improvements - not all of which can be funded by a cheque.

    • MP will get an even CLEARER idea as to which players have futures at the club, and which ones he feels can't take us any further.

    • Results/disappointments such as the recent scorelines SHOULD help sharpen the players focus ahead of next season - therefore, ensuring they don't believe too much of their own hype going into the new season.

    • The experience from the season as a whole, and the last few games, will stand this squad in good stead, ahead of future challenges both domestically and abroad. With those experiences, be it tactically, technically and mentally, will come improvement/development.

    The problem today, was the same problem we had recently up at Upton Park, and that was the balance of the team WASN'T right.

    You see, what has made Tottenham such a force domestically is that we have had an EXCELLENT blend of pace, power, athleticism, strength, technical prowess and tactical discipline.
    In short, we have been able to - when our key players have been fit/ available - match, and more often than not overwhelm, ANY side in the division with these attributes/characteristics.

    But when you take 3, or more, of our 6/7 KEY players out of the team, (depending on which ones, really) the team becomes unable to function to the same standard.

    Listen, EVERYONE who is currently in the Spurs squad is a GOOD FOOTBALLER, but it takes more than that to be consistently good enough to compete at the very highest level, both domestically, and abroad.

    Mentality/characters aside, you NEED athleticism and power within the group. And when a few/or most of the players in our squad that give us those ingredients are missing (i.e. Walker, Rose, Dembele, Alli, Kane etc), we WILL look like a different outfit. It's as simple as that!

    What then highlights a lack of those features in our play even more, is when we come up against opposition who whilst may NOT be as technically adept as ourselves, excel in the two KEY departments that I mentioned.

    Today, we were outran and out-muscled, particularly in the midfield and down the flanks, where players such as Tiote, Sissoko, Townsend and Wijnaldum exerted their physical prowess.

    At Upton Park it was Kayoute, Payet, Obiang and Antonio.

    What Spurs have to do to prevent this from happening in the future is sign more like-for-like players so when we are missing KEY components within our team through injuries/suspension, the players that come in can give us similar characteristics, helping the side to maintain its overall dynamic.

    Hence the reason I spoke about players such as Sissoko and Delph, being such potentially viable additions to the club, during the summer.

    If those two had come in for Delle Alli and Dembele, who have both cost the club with there ill-advised/unwarranted/naive displays of petulance, I can ASSURE you that the difference in our
    performances would have appeared minimal.

    Not because they are the best players in the world, or even because they are at the same level of those they would be replacing - but because they would give the team a similar dynamic. Our style of play wouldn't change, neither would our ability to be diverse.


    Look, I could go on all day about this, but I won't. :cool:

    All I will say is that this HAS been a FANTASTIC season where the club has made HUGE strides both ON and OFF the pitch.

    There is SO much to look forward to -and although I could do with a break from club duties after a long and emotional campaign - I am really excited about what is to come in the forthcoming seasons.

    We live in exciting times!!!
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2016

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