Sack Poch? Get a grip.

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Mattj78, December 12, 2016.

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  1. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    Spurs have lost 2 games in the Premier League this season and our performances have been far from impressive. We put 4 past Stoke City, we destroyed Man City and hammered a very poor Swansea City. Maybe playing a team with City in the name every week is what we need!

    But the cries that have started to appear calling for Pochettino to be sacked are frankly ridiculous.
    As those of you who regularly read my posts will know, I do have concerns over Poch in terms of his tactics and lack of a plan B but to start saying he should be sacked is even more worrying.

    Since 2001, when ENIC took over our club, we have gone from manager to manager to manager with little success. A 2008 league cup win and several other semi finals, a couple of finals plus 2 Champions league campaigns (1 great, 1 awful), a flirtation with the title and right now.

    False dawns, poor transfers and great players sold but never replaced. That frustration is felt by us all but what would sacking Pochettino achieve?
    Although contracts count for little in the modern age, we have seen our best players sign new contracts, something that was rare pre Poch. For all we may question the manager, I do think the players respect and trust him. There is no dressing room unrest and that is positive.

    Kane has made it clear that Pochettino has been key in him signing yet another new contract and we should at least take some confidence from that.

    So why are some saying we need yet another change of manager?
    Maybe because we finished third in a two horse race least season? Maybe because our performances this season have been far from enjoyable. Maybe because our summer transfer business was far from ideal after a season when we were genuine title contenders.

    And all of those are understandable to a point. But let's look at the reasons why it is better for him to stay. He has no agent and manages his own affairs. I truly believe that he is committed to the long term of Spurs and not only wants success but believes he is at a club capable of success.
    Performances have been pretty dull but imagine if this is our blip! If it is then I'll take that.
    We need consistency too. Let's say we sack Poch tomorrow. Who do you really think could change things in the long term? In the short term things would possibly change because that always happens in football. Oh look, new manager, let's win a few games. That's about the mind of the modern footballer I'm afraid.
    Klinsmann is free and as soon as he was and we had a lacklustre performance there were calls on social media such as FaceAche to get him. Whilst that may one day happen, I don't think now is the right time.

    Don't forget that Poch is a young manager still learning his trade. We all want trophies and and all want to win the league. Last seasons flirtation has made many believe that we should be challenging again this season and I get that. Deep down I think we should be challenging but I also know that Spurs are trying to get some consistency.
    Levy is NEVER going to pay the wages of Chelsea or City. Ever.

    I guess what I am saying is that sacking Poch would change nothing and serve little purpose. Other than Klinsmann, who is out there that you would really want as manager? I can't think of anyone to be honest.

    But if people want Poch out, just remember that you might end up with Allardyce in.

    Keep the faith. Keep perspective and most of all, COME ON YOU SPURS!!!!
     
    burnt likes this.
  2. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't get the hype surrounding Poch we've seen in rare pockets what his so called 'philosophy' can do but its so far and few between that its actually a hindrance most of the time, because when it doesn't work it stinks and we have nothing else to offer.

    That Utd game was a perfect example all huff n absolutely nothing dangerous or slightly entertaining.

    Granted Poch has had a good clear out of a lot that was wrong with Spurs and has built the nucleus of a good side but we are not really any better than what Arry or AvB were doing in many ways we're not even as good.

    I asked a mate of mine (yes i do have some) the other day 'if Arry or AvB had the team that Poch currently has do you think they'd be doing worse or better?'
    Its an interesting question and il let others give their thoughts on it. Totally hypothetical of course.

    If you believe Poch is easily the better of the 3 and is doing better than the other 2 would then of course youl be happy with him.

    Personally i cannot see the progression so many would have us believe, league points, cup failure etc we're on a 10 year platuex 6/5th with the odd 4th and a default 3rd.

    The only improvement i see is from a Discipline and Effort point of view from Poch. Im convinced Arry would have us running riot at teams and that AvB for his faults would still have been racking up more points.

    Poch needs to step his game up and kick us on, im tired of seeing the same old predictable sh;t. We may have improved since the 90's but we've fell into a groove of just ticking along and talking it up like we're doing something- we are not.

    With a cup final loss, a title collapse, a pitiful CL campaign, back in 5th and the EL (injuries/suspensions whatever) Poch is doing himself no favours, and a lot of the football on display has been dismal bout as pleasing on the eye as watching England play.

    For us Spurs fans we are used to having a Superstar in the side, some1 that gets us off our seats that other teams coo over. Well we've not had 1 since Bale left and by the looks of it doesn't look like Levy will buy 1 or Poch knows how to find 1 or manage 1.

    Just a few thoughts on it, Spurs like Pochs football has become very predictable and basically fruitless with not much than more to come of it.
     
    Mattj78 likes this.
  3. Mr T Guest

    Unfortunately this is a problem after a small bit of success like last seasons "over-achievements". Lets be realistic we still aren't ready for the title last season us and Leicester was a freak occurrence. But unlike them we will get better we have great young players who are still learning but not a great squad. To call for poch's head is not only ignorant but insulating for us fans who sat through the nineties believe me after the dross we've seen this is finally a team that can achieve things just get behind them don't force them out. COYS!
     
  4. burnt Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think it's crazy talk , he's a young manager still finding his own way and in fairness his hands are tied in a lot of ways but he seems happy to be here and do the job and gives the impression hes confident he can still achieve things under difficult enough circumstances .. He has his faults but they all do , most of the highest rated managers in world football are in this Lg now and even though it's early days for some of them , they all have their faults at this moment in time ... The great Pep seems like he couldn't organize a defense on a PlayStation and Klopp doesn't look much better at it , and Mourinho for all his spending is still behind us ... It's not that long ago there was a melt down over us missing out on Louis Van Gaal but the short memory brigade conveniently forget about this ... I'm a believer that you build from the back so at least I.m.o we,re going the right way about it ... Maybe he got a bit carried away after last season and like some of the fans believed some of the players were a lot better then they actually are ... The team hasn't functioned properly from the midfield up so far this year , now the reasons for that are what's debatable ... No doubt injuries haven't helped , and weather the others haven't performed like we,d hoped because of tactical reasons or a lack of form or progression or quiet simply they just over achieved last season when everything was rosy and they were in a pressure less situation because nobody really expected much , well only time will tell .... I know a lot don't like this or don't really believe it or certainly don't like hearing it but finance dictates in modern football , there'll be the odd exception like Atletico or the odd anomaly like last year in the prem , but over a period finance dictates where teams usually finish , it's not a coincidence ... As far as how we'd be getting on if Harry or Avb were still in charge , I don't think there'd be any huge difference in position , we'd probably be more erratic under Harry , from sublime to ridiculous but ultimately no real change in position and while I don't think there'd be any huge difference in style under Avb , I think he alienats too many players with his arrogance and he'd loose them completely in the end ... Ultimately I.m.o nothing will really change until all this stadium upheaval is over and after that I suppose it will depend on how it was financed .. I haven't a clue myself but I doubt it will be a case of , once the doors are opened it will be bought and paid for so we,ll probably be paying it back for years and how that's going to effect the team finance's remains to be seen ... In the end hopefully it will be all worth it but where the end is , well that's anyone's guess ....... C.O.Y.S .......
     
  5. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    We've been led to believe the last 10 years austerity was to fund the stadium build so we wouldn't be saddled with Debt???
    Can gaurantee Enic n Danny will use it as a beating stick for 10 years after the build at least, and the Enic sympathisers will lap it up reminding us all how lucky we are.
     
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  6. Bazza47

    Bazza47 Well-Known Member

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    I'd be fibbing I said I didn't have any doubts about MP and whilst it's not a reason for him to be under threat, there are stand out issues that, for me, need addressing, if we are ever to challenge at the highest level, so I guess that means at a European level.

    The stand out pluses. Our defence, our young talent, our English core. The emerging NWHL.

    The stand out minuses. Our lack of pace, a heavyweight second striker, and a midfielder who can pick a pass. Our inability to get the right results in top 4 games and at vital stages of key cup competitions.

    Some of this is down to Poch. Take the 2nd striker. There must be some young talent worth risking money on. What happened to the other Moussa Dembele at Fulham.....now knocking them in for Celtic. Whose decision was it not to invest. DL..MP....

    MP needs to reveal those hitherto absent attributes. Influencing DL. Tactical Nouse.......those two for starters.

    COYS
     
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  7. burnt Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya Mate , I really haven't a clue about how the financing for this whole project is supposed to work so anything is possible ... Only time will tell ... I've always had it in my head these guys were going to sell out at some stage been an investment company and I still think that is their ultimate goal ... I know the idea of us being owned by some sugar daddy is not a road a lot of fans would like to see us heading down but ultimately it might be the only way we ever close the financial gap completely .... I'm not sure where I stand on it myself to be honest , I can see it from both sides , but at this stage if that's what it takes then feck it ... Life is short at the end of the day ...

    Maybe there's also something else stirring in the background concerning all clubs with all these streaming options now available ... Not sure how long this sky money is going to last ... Will be interesting to see how the next few contracts play out .. Maybe the bubble is about to burst ... Now again I'm not going to pretend I know anything about this either , maybe that would make the money bags clubs even more powerful , I don't know , but is one to keep an eye on and will be interesting to see how it all pans out ... C.O.Y.S ........
     
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  8. Dace Member

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    I have enjoyed the Poch era up to and including the Man City game, however we are seemingly stuck in some kind of a rut. There appears to be no passion or urgency in the way we play, let alone any kind of plan B .

    Poch is the man in charge and so all the grief will be aimed towards him, he is the one overseeing the turgid football we are serving up but he seems to believe that as we are 'controlling' games then all is alright.

    In my eyes we are being controlled by other managers/teams who will let us fanny around with the ball in the first two thirds of the pitch knowing we will go from side to side a couple/few times before any real attack happens. This allows them to get back into their defensive formation and basically wait until they gain possession and then with out FBs up field front 4 all over the place and with no real pace in the team counter attack.

    Poch also is apparently in charge of the transfers now but really does have varying degrees of success when it comes to getting in players. In my opinion only Toby and Wanyama have been a success since day one. He has improved others massively and that is a plus, also he has integrated some younger players.

    Onto Levy and wages, I agree with him not paying massive wages, he will not ever change on that. That teams supposedly lower in the financial table are happy to pay some of their playes more than we are is rather strange. The players normally are not supporters of the clubs they play for and will follow the money just as each one of us would do.
    Hindsight is a wonderful thing but actually paying up for Berahino or loaning back Dembele or offering Isco £150k p/w would have been beneficial ... Only mentioned those players as an example.

    I do think we overachieved last season due to circumstance and I do think we are in our place (5th) at the moment, yes I wanted to win the PL last year and want top4 this.
    I do think Poch will stay and I will be happy with that.
    I see Poch leading us out at the NWHL.

    Not sure what we will do at Wembley next season !

    However I do see Poch sticking to his plan and not changing us into a more dynamic team, that is a shame because we have the spine in place and just need a couple of differing options, maybe even behind Kane.a.n.other a three like Nkoudou ? Zaha .. just a complete different three, all speed and trickery, again just using players, any will do.

    Actually does anyone have any ideas for a new 3 behind the striker ?

    Interesting point made by Burnt above re. the streaming...I do think Sky may well leave the football after this contract with the PL, streaming must be costing them a fortune, read somewhere they pay an average of £11 m. per game !!

    Anyway, Hull today, a big win required....COYS !
     
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  9. Big fran Guest

    On the 3 behind the striker we all agree this is our problem at present turning possession into clear cut chances. We are stuck with what we have until January so need to shuffle the pack with what we have. I'd like to see either nkoudou or sissoko start tonight to add more pace and directness. Moussa has been a flop so far granted but after a decent cameo v man utd this could be an opportunity for MP to push him on.
    Going into January we need a 40m plus signing I'm afraid in order to get a top quality player such as lacazette or reus maybe.
    Barkley was fantastic last night maybe he could unlock doors or draxler.
     
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