No Europa excuses

Discussion in 'Tottenham forum' started by Mattj78, September 22, 2014.

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  1. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    Am I the only Spurs fan to be mildly amazed at the amount of football commentators and today's back pages, still talking about Tottenham's inability to win games on a Sunday after Europa league games? No, I didn't think so!

    No excuse

    In the past couple of seasons, there have been maybe three or four changes from the premier league team to the Europa league team, but yesterday we saw ten changes! From Sunderland to Europe, the manager made TEN changes. From Europe to the Premier league, he made TEN changes, and completely dropped two players who actually looked promising in Belgrade, in Fazio and Stambouli. In fact, they weren't even in the squad, and Vertonghen who looked much more solid in Belgrade than Chiriches did on Wearside, was dropped to the bench. I understand squad rotation, I understand resting players, and of course I am fully aware that we have a huge game coming up against Arsenal, but surely you want your best players playing? They need match time.

    Deja Vu....

    Under AVB, one of the main criticisms was the slow, possession football, that lacked any real penetration. Under AVB and sherwood, the lack of passion was at times sad to see.
    Last season, all we seemed to hear from the players were comments like, " we are really disappointed and must bounce back." Last season, we heard that from Dawson on more than one occasion. This season, replace Dawson with Kaboul, and a sense of déjà vu starts to creep in.
    When asked about Spurs lack of passion on Sky yesterday, the 'new' managers comments were also sounding rather familiar;

    “This is my surprise. We need to show more,” said the Spurs boss, when asked about their lack of passion. “Every game in the Premier League is difficult.

    The same old excuses being churned out by different faces.

    Time, time, time

    Of course any new manager needs time to develop his squad and decide on his best eleven ( just ask a certain manager at old Trafford) but I would have thought MP would have had a much better idea about his team and squad by now. I appreciate that every team needs a big squad, but you do not need to make ten changes from one game to the next. That is is simply going over the top.
    MP does need time, but he needs to make sure that we win against Forest and get a good result, and more importantly, a good performance against the Gooners. If, heaven forbid, we were to lose those two games, you do start to wonder what is going on at White Hart Lane. And as I write this, there goes that feeling of déjà vu again. Weren't we here last season too?

    Get it right

    As stated in my match summary yesterday, I have only really seen evidence of the high pressing game we keep being promised in one game, at home to Limassol. Against QPR, the opposition was so inadequate, high pressing wasn't really required. Against Liverpool, there were flashes of it in the first quarter of an hour and also for about half an hour up at Sunderland. But then it just seems to stop, and we go back to passing the ball around without going anywhere.
    The lack of a cutting edge up front has long been a topic of debate on this forum, but the fact we failed to create any clear chances yesterday was frightening.
    We need to improve, and improve quickly, but Europe is NO excuse. Lack of passion is NO excuse.

    Lack of ideas and passion is however, at present, a very concerning reality.
     
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  2. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    I dont understand how anyone expected any different, there are a number of players that simply arent good enough and a number of players with an appalling atitude.
    We did ok transfer buisness but no where near enough were sent packing and no where near enough quality was brought in as seems to be the norm.
    You cannot coach character its either in a players mindset or it is not. None of this current crop are willing to put a shift in let alone walk through walls for the cause.
    Its not just effort either, there is a severe lack of football intelligence. Too much dithering, running down blind alleys, sideways, backwards, ball watching, no responsibility, no organisation and as a team no cohesion through out.
    Every player seems to be waiting for every other player to take the reigns and do something but i genuinely believe none of them have the drive or ability to take the lead and make things happen.
    All coasting along content with inept displays its embarrassing!
     
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  3. Tommy Guest

    We are playing like strangers without a plan of attack and just keep moving the ball inside into traffic, there is no cohesion as nobody seems to know what the other is doing or what they are going to do! we dont seem to know how to break down well drilled defenses! the movement is non-existant or when there is movement up front the ball is not passed forward because our midfielders are defensive and don't possess that passing ability or vision to get the ball forward quickly to the forwards! one area which is so simple which we do not do is when a player passes the ball to another player there is nobody giving that player on the ball options and he becomes isolated and often tries a risky pass and gives the ball away! what happened to pass and moving? watch the best sides and when a pass is made there is 2 or 3 options to pass to or movement so a pass can be made forward to start an attack! it's all so AVB, possession based but no penetration and teams know if they defend well and play on the break they will often win, if they defend we need quick passing and movement to drag them out of shape! a lot of work needs to be done but we have to play our best team in the league but i think Poch thought that playing Kaboul and Chiriches would be enough to beat West Brom and gave our better players the day off to save them for tougher challenges but that back fired badly! also if we are to keep one striker up front then he will need a lot of service which is not happening otherwise we go with 2 strikers and go for the game, seems like Poch keeps one system and doesn't change from it whether we play West Brom or Real Madrid, Poch needs time and will be a success im sure but we will need to be patient. Coys!
     
  4. Trigspur Guest

    Well said both of you. I could have handled losing yesterday if we'd tried everything but the keeper was briiliant but we didn't even trouble him.sick of players saying we must bounce back as it seems like lip service to me. Show some bloody passion you overpaid fairies!!!!
     
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  5. I've read that the manager likes to use a recording of a game with individual players to help them improve. Perhaps he could consider showing a recording of yesterday's debacle to the entire team, stopping the recording each time something happened that could have been better (I know, it'll take hours!) For example, when a defender makes a sideways pass, the recording should be stopped and the defender asked why he did that, rather than venturing forward himself or passing the ball forward. If his reply is that he couldn't find anyone unmarked to make a pass to, check the recording to see who was close to him in a more forward position and ask them why they were not running into space to give the defender an outlet for a forward pass. At throw-ins, why are players not losing their markers in order to be available to receive the ball? Ask each front men who cuts inside into a congested midfield why he didn't spread the play wide. If a corner kick doesn't clear the first defender, ask why the ball wasn't lofted higher.

    It's not a blame game, it's merely confronting the players with their decisions and showing them the collective consequences of their actions. If it makes them think about what they're doing wrong, and if it raises their levels of concentration, determination and effort, then it's got to be worth a try.
     
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  6. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    The point is that too many players are simply not interested, and the manager cannot do too much about that. Adebayor was a complete joke yesterday and I don't say that lightly. His lack of effort was staggering. Kaboul being captain makes me seriously question the managers judgement. He should not even be on the pitch, let alone captaining the team.
    Even lloris had a poor game by his standards yesterday. His distribution of the ball was lame although that was in part due to the complete lack of movement by the outfield players.
    We need consistency in the team. You cannot have twenty different players, three games apart. It is madness.
     
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  7. Supporter Guest

    Well said, sir! I have often shouted out, in frustration, to a Spurs player "why did you do that?" These guys train with each other week in and week out yet so often they seem very content to pass the ball sideways. The thing is I am quite capable of doing that. But then I don't earn what these players earn. I want to see these so called professionals earn their £20,000, or whatever, a week. Let me see their skills. Let me see shots on goal. Let me see someone beat a player. Let me see a half decent corner kick. Let me see some effort and passion. Entertain me. Excite me. Reassure me that you know at least some of the other members of the team. If this is the best that players on these kind of salaries and in front of 30,000 passionate fans can muster, then there is something very wrong.
     
  8. Felon82 Well-Known Member

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    Ive seen a number of posts stating the captaincy isnt important and that the team needs 11 captains, i agree the 11 playing all need to show commitment to the cause but to say the captains role is not important i would like them to take a look at Vincent kompanys tussle with Diego Costa yesterday.
    Kompany was not at any point going to allow his defence to be bullied by Costa which in turn drew the same atitude from the rest of the defence, when the midfield sees this being enforced by the defence they raise their comitment levels leaving the strikers feeling i cant let the rest of the team down so it is a catalyst for team performance it sets the bar.
    Kaboul is not captain material and when you look through our side who is setting the bar? No one
     
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  9. johnnyhrvat Guest

    We watched Spurs play for 160 minutes (against Partizan and first 70 mins against WBA) until they got a shot on target.
    On Sunday, the first two times that we got possession we hoofed the ball forward. At that point I realised that we were going to lose.
     
  10. Tommy Guest

    There is a lack of mental toughness and lack of will to win at any costs in the side from what i can see, we get rolled over quite easily because the opposition has more fight and determination to win the game! where are the leaders that kick the others up the Ar se for not being switched on and determined? would you see Roy Keane just take a preformance like that lying down? to many strollers in the side with a couldn't give a F..k attitude, Poch has to instill some kind of mental toughness and will to win into these players otherwise he will ultimately be the one getting sacked because these sorry bunch won't fight for the right to play our game, we seem to not be able to impose our game on the opposition? Paulinho is the worst example of a lazy player that couldn't give a flying F..k.
     
  11. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    Felon, you are spot on. I don't think anyone truly believes being captain is not important, it is more a case of needing all 11 players to step up and show passion whic is causing the most frustration.

    The issue of captain raises a number of concerns. Why does the manager feel Kaboul is fit for the job when hundreds of thousands of others can he see he is not up to that job.
    Why does he see the need to even select Kaboul as his performances simply do not warrant selection.
    If there are two vice captains, why is one of them showing no effort?
    Captains must lead by example. Look at Mabbutt. Organised, passionate and a leader.
    Kaboul? None of these things.
     
  12. Deggsy56

    Deggsy56 Active Member

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    Read all the posts and couldn't agree more. A few points to add: Capt Kabul - was one of our best defenders before injury, so y has this affected his ability? I say WAS as you rightly say he is no longer capable or warrants the armband. How I wish we still had Ledley! Even with dodgy knees he was a rock in defence. I saw some of him in Fazio, so where was he yesterday? He needs to play regularly with Verts. Sorry Kabul you aint good enough!
    Strikers? Where are they? We have none - or at least none good enough for PL. I make no secret of the fact that I am not a fan of The TogoTogo! ( i wont even say his name). The guy is useless in front of goal - and was only competent on loan to us. Just Like D Bent, 'Harry's Sandra' could've scored that header (our only shot) yesterday. Kane simply is not PL material and Soldado is playing for the wrong team. We just do not play to his strengths and style. WELBECK? How did we miss out on him I ask you? 16m cheap as chips these says for quality? January may be too late for us to acquire a quality striker. I mean too late by we maybe halfway down table by then.
    Midfield only Eriksen shows any promise of anything but he is NO Luka Modric (best player for R Madrid still). But Eriksen cannot do it alone. How I wish we still had 'Capt' Van den Vart. Our best signing in recent years now Captain for Hamburg.
    Watched the game on stream yesterday and saw ( as already said) the same old back and sideways dance. What happened to the 'New Spurs' style? When our players had the ball at times it seemed they didn't know what to do with it and looking round for someone to pass to like the 'old Spurs'. I despair of them I really do.
    Some stats: WBA were in bottom 3 till yesterday. They hadn't scored for 6 hours till yesterday. They hadn't beaten Spurs at WHL for 30 years. That says it all how bad we were. They used the out of fashion 4-4-2. But were like a solid brick wall. We had no pace at all on the wings (Lennon, Walker??). A complete shambles! The only consolation was the other top teams were bad too - less Arse. But especially the Mancs - losing 5-3 to a promoted club, made up for our abysmal performance. They beat QPR 4-0 (as did we) and suddenly they're title contenders. So are we?? They were **** - and so were we and IT NEEDS SORTING NOW before we implode. 'Nuff said !
     
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  13. Spurporter Well-Known Member

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    They can have as much passion as Poch or Matt would like, but if players do what manager wants and it doesn't work it will be gone very fast. MP was out coached last two losses. Plain and simple. That is why he (deja vu Tim) blamed the team. That is expected reaction of him.
    I am sorry, but pressure game can only be played without ball. We had possession most of the time. We needed patiently break the bus they parked in front by quick short passes or get ball behind defenders. But Baggies limited room for our top 4 and we not in the form to proceed with one touch passes. Our lob specialists left their skills off the pitch somehow. May be passion took them elsewhere, I don't know... MP is saying we were not quick enough to get to the box before their bus comes back. May be... but the bus has been parked most of the time and never left. We did try to stretch them, but they were careful and we could not get the ball behind them or it is just not what MP likes to play. He finds crosses being not effective, I guess...
    The concession from set play is inexcusable, but that can be fixed. What is not so easy is to develop a set of particular fragments of the sustained attack when entire opposition is behind the ball and teach it to players. That is MP's job. Levy's job is to get an attacking performers that are able to get trough defenders. Our lads at their best so far can only get around them.
     
    Last edited: September 22, 2014
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  14. dnoll5

    dnoll5 Member

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    Any reason why we can't play with two strikers? Soldado came in and immediately put a shot on goal, something that hadn't happened in the previous 65 minutes. While Soldado needs to bag more goals, I think he can be as valuable as a link up player. We complain about Adebayor, but honestly, how many times was he even given an opportunity to do anything? He had to come deep far too often to even get involved. The game moved forward better with Soldado in the game. Everyone's in love with Eriksen (I am too) but his performances so far this season haven't been good and he didn't move the team up the pitch at all on Sunday. In my opinion, putting Soldado in as the #10 would improve things for the time being.
     
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  15. OldjdubLloris New Member

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    So you are the person in charge of a business, responsible for appointing staff. You appoint a manager, fail to give him the resources required and when the business fails to reach the target you feel it should, you sack the person you appointed. You then follow this by doing the same thing numerous times more. You continually fail to invest wisely and even the person you bring in to find those employees fails to bring in the quality required. Its also a doubt if you have any real knowledge of the business you are in charge of, but you appear to be in total control of all major decisions. You never give any reasons for your actions or give interviews as to how you feel the business should progress. Does this feel familiar? It should.
    In the real world, YOU would have lost YOUR job many years ago, but as we all know, this is not the real world I am speaking about, but our beloved club and our mis-managing chairman.
    Success they say begins at the top, so if making a profit of a few million in the transfer market the last few years is success then bravo and we would be European Champions, but we all know that this is not the case.
    What's the point of having a fantastic training ground and a brand new stadium, (if that ever materialises), if you have neither the team to do it justice or the fans to fill it.
    No one wants to see the passionless pedestrian style of play we have been subject to over the last few seasons and I for one am somewhat tired of getting my expectations up every transfer window hoping we will end up with a competitive team.
    So, Mr Chairman, leave the running of the club to those who know how, get rid of the under performing staff, (we all know who they are) and invest to a level that makes us competitive or sell the club and take your money and run. Oldjdub
     
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  16. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree that Soldado needs more game time, and I also agree that we should play two up front. Adebayor may not have had a lot of service, but when the ball went up to him, he won only two headers! That is either really good defending or sheer laziness. It was the latter.
    The simple fact is that we play far too slowly. We have lots of the ball but do nothing with it. If we were struggling to score goals but creating loads of chances, then that would be great, but we are simply not creating enough chances. We didn't even work the west Brom keeper and that is criminal.
    If Pochettino thought he had a hard job coming to Spurs, he knows it for sure now. Having watched spurs and Southampton this season, so far, there is only team that looks any good. And it isn't spurs.
     
  17. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly my point! According to some on here though, the chairman has turned us into a brilliant team, attracting the best players, and gaining worldwide recognition.
    We have always attracted top players.
    We have always had a huge worldwide fan base: go to Barcelona for example and they love spurs!
    The chairman has not suddenly brought these things to the club.
    Levy is a businessman, not a football man. Until he either recognises that or peddles off into the sunset, spurs will not be in the top four or winning silverware for a very long time. A very long time indeed.
     
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  18. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    I will be interested to see the attendance on Wednesday. Spurs tend to get big gates, whatever the game, but against Limassol there were more empty seats than I have seen in a while, and I just begin to wonder how much apathy has started to set in.
    The jeers at the end of the west Brom game were deafening. Much more deafening than the atmosphere during the game.
     
  19. stevethespur Active Member

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    Agree with most of the sentiment in all the posts. Players really need a boot up the backside for Sundays performance, but will they get it ? I doubt it in the modern game. Where is the character, the grit ? I think alot of the premier league sides are improving, which is great in one way but there are no certain easy pickings now. Every game the opposition has always had fight in the English prem but i think alot of clubs now have players that can hurt you, ally that to a real work ethic and every game is a battle. We dont seem to be improving our first eleven. Welbeck and Remy were available, even Lescott would have improved our defence this season. We could have changed our striking options, but didnt. We've become obsessed with a certain style of coaching and football that other sides are clearly learning to exploit, as results show. There is , i hope, a top eleven waiting to emerge amongst our squad but some shrewd and successful buys in January wouldn't go amiss. Coys.
     
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  20. Mattj78

    Mattj78 Well-Known Member

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    Great point about the players that were available Steve. Lescott would have been a decent buy, and as you say, Remy was available and even Welbeck, although I must admit to not being too sure about him. He looks like proving me wrong though and I dread to think how much he might prove me right on Saturday tea time.
    For saying levy is shrewd, he missed a fair few tricks this summer and Pochettino had his work cut out to get the best out of this squad.
    Lamela is looking good, Dier is a great prospect and Chadli looks much more confident.
    Eriksen is yet to come out of hibernation, but I am sure he will soon enough.
    Kaboul is awful. Chiriches looks very shaky. Vertonghen looked good in Belgrade but was then dropped.
    Adebayor is good but only if he can be bothered. Lloris is class and should be captain, no question.
    Capoue is decent enough and can break play up.
    There is potential in this squad, but there was last season too, so why the heck is it not being realised?
    I championed MP as manager throughout the summer and stand by that...for now. But so far, AVB or tim may just as well be sat in the dugout for all the difference we have seen....so far.
    I remain optimistic...........but that optimism is seriously dwindling.
     

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