A Brave New World ...... Really?

Discussion in 'Featured' started by Felon82, June 14, 2018.

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  1. antony Member

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    I agree regards Toby and Danny but they want away! Dembele I love, but (30) now is the time to cash in (30m) because I think in 18 months time he will be shot! The others mentioned are not fit to wear the shirt imo and in terms of balancing squad numbers is why we have an academy and one noted as the best in the PL under John McDermott.
    Blood them in the league cup and give them 20 minutes against the lesser sides when we are 3-o up!

    But I accept there are a few who are fans of Lamela, Aurier, Sissoko, Lorente and Onomha, just not me! Is that ridiculous?


     
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  2. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    I fail to see what any of these players bring to the squad except Dissapointment , all need improving on if we are to kick on and not stand Still!
    Where is the drive to improve with people accepting these dead beats as good squad players?

    It is unfortunate how Rose and Toby are panning out but if their hearts not in it or the club aren't willing to meet them then they have to go.

    On Dembele a mate of mine said to me other day we're linked with Barrios (get the Google search on) so bye Dembele thanks for the memories- it made me laugh and I asked him what's the 1 memory you have of Dembele ? And then he was scrambling for something to say haha.

    Dembele for me is a complete Enigma of a player he has top class ability at holding and carrying the ball he's second to none but beyond that what's he ever actually done ????
    It's mad because he will be a loss if he goes but that's only because he's technically head and shoulders above the likes of Dier Wanyama Winks etc it's just a shame hes barely ever used it to influence a result so his career with us will limp to nothing as many others will if this trend of enjoy the ride who cares about winning attitude continues.
     
    Last edited: June 17, 2018
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  3. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    If you are incapable of appreciating or unable to see Dembele's influence on a game when in form; one's understanding of proper footballing protocol can be called into question. There's not many midfielders who are capable of seeing and making a forward pass or for that matter dribbling through different levels of a defense to open opportunities for forward players. Watch the games when Dembele wasn't available and ones when he was, and maybe that'll tell you a few things.

    On the other squad players, there are some whom we can afford to off load, Onomah and Llorente could be such. Off loading 6 or more players all at once...that's what's ridiculous. No squad can have such a turnover and expect to keep on from it. Lamela, Aurier, Sissoko for that matter are decent squad players...with Poch's coaching they'll keep improving. Unless if we don't expect our managers to coach anymore and only hope to buy silverware as some fans will tell you.
     
  4. antony Member

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    Ridiculous! Incapable! Not being able to appreciate/understanding proper football protocol! Because I have an opinion that does not comply to yours!
    You must be a very angry young (definitely young) man Remy. So I'll pass on replying to your posts and just admire from afar and bow to your superior knowledge. Apparently!
     
  5. Cheshuntboy Guest

    Most of Dembele's admirers reckon that last season was at least as good, if not better, than any of his six at Spurs to date, so without delving into the archives, his goals and assists were presumably as good as they've ever been for the club. In case you've forgotten, that means zero goals and zero assists, and how that possibly squares with the praise heaped on him is beyond me. I'm sorry but it really does seem that you're making the same 'you're too stupid to appreciate him' argument that's routinely wheeled-out in defence of under-performers, Lamela being the obvious alternative candidate in the current team, and whatever his merits (or lack thereof) even his biggest fan must concede that his injury record and frequent dips in form don't justify the three year £100k per week contract that he's supposedly seeking - pay as you play would be generous enough in my view.
     
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  6. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    There are players in the team whose goal isn't to score or provide assists, the work that he does for the team is controlling the tempo of the game. He does that for Spurs when on form, he's done relatively well this season. Would I like him to score goals or provide assists, yes...but that's not primary his job. Think about it, there's a reason Poch plays him and has gone on to praise him over the years. Some of these players that everyone is so keen on off loading are players that Poch has come to depend on...those whom he doesn't think fit, he's not shy of cutting them himself. Suggesting that Poch knows what he's doing more than most of us isn't extraordinary; especially since Sissoko, Aurier and few others were brought in with him there.

    well, if you can't counter a critic with something substantive.....
     
  7. antony Member

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  8. antony Member

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    I appreciate and love Dembele as stated in a previous post but at 30 and after what 6 years at the club? For me, if we are to keep our momentum going we need an upgrade! Same applies to Lamela! 4 years? An when was the last time he dominated (30mill our biggest purchase until Sanchez) ANY game for a 70 minute+ period! For me he is just a show-pony and a liability in the sense, granted he is committed, but more often than not, that commitment results in him given away free kicks in vulnerable areas! Sissoko! Just a donkey and not a top 4 footballer! First touch is atrocious and on occasion when he does power past the final line of defence he then stops and passes backwards and hands over the responsibility!! Aurier defends like a school boy! Rash, go's to ground far to often and has poor positional sense! Lorente! Just not happened!! Onomah! An honest player but not got that extra bit it takes at this level! If we are serious, and I believe we are, about remaining a top PL top 4 side and making a serious challenge in Europe, these are not the type of squad players we need to achieve that. The best example I can give is I could see all of the above turning out regularly at The London Stadium! Nuff said!

    For me 6 that need shipping out + sadly (if they want away) Toby and Danny too!
    Toby and Danny aside I cannot see how moving these players on is going to dramatically upset the equilibrium of the squad, especially if that £100mill + Toby/Danny is reinvested with the same foresight and long-term planning as Foyth and Sanchez was! Examples: Martial, Wegli, Zaha, Max Meyer. Quality not quantity!

    COYS!
     
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  9. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    Below are your own words Remy from another thread -

    (Ever since Luka left for RM, we've lacked a true deep lying playermaker. Someone of that type that can push Dembele and not always have to resort to having Eriksen drop...)

    As I've said I think he is Technically a top player but over the years has chosen the comfy uninspiring route and in turn has wasted his Talent which is dissapointing.
    Too many sideways passes and looking good in undangerous areas.
    Should've been up there with the Keanes/Vieras/Gerrards/Toures/Lampards/Scholes of the Premier League such is his ability instead he's coasted through games and his career sadly.
     
  10. Josh Bolton

    Josh Bolton Active Member Blogger

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    Twitter:
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  11. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    Dembele is not comparable to the kind of player Modric is, even though they play similar role...they have completely different games and mentality. When we look at our squad, we have no one that can challenge him for his position. Just like how Davies challenged Rose to lift his level...Dembele when fit he plays. Poch has gotten him to improve his game in the last couple of seasons though, and only at 30...I think he has atleast 2 or more good years.

    Looking at the options we have now, Dembele is the best of what's left...he position is so pivotal that I believe we shouldn't let him go unless we have a viable replacement.
     
  12. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    I agree with this Remy, if he goes he will leave a void in the CM as on the ball he is far superior to his competition in the team I just believe if he stays he could and should do more to Drive us on.
    I just can't see it happening unfortunately, a leopard doesn't change its spots/can't teach an old dog new tricks springs to mind.
    If he stays he needs to step up and lead more hes too good to just tick along if he goes he needs replacing with as good or better quality.
     
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  13. antony Member

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    Has anyone asked why this debate is going on! We are debating the potential sale of Dembele because THFC are considering selling him! Why? The why for me being that they know the boy Mousa is coming to the end of his career and cannot continue to do what he does for us for the next 2-3 seasons.
    I have not read one post that slates Dembele. We all agree and "appreciate" his talent and what he does for the team, and any negativity is from seeing such a talent not being able to take the next step, bag 10-12 goals a season and become World Class as a result!
    Does anyone really think Poch would let Mousa go if he believed he had another 2 full and productive seasons left in him!! But what do I know!

    Post copied from "Here's looking at you Mousa"
     
  14. antony Member

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    Its been suggested that shipping out 7-9 players and replacing them with 4-5 is ridiculous! But for me, it is part of our progression.

    Bare with me! Two seasons back a Nkoudon, Lamela, Sissoko etc might have been acceptable. What my point was/is, we are now 3 times (consecutive) CL qualifiers. We now have a state of the art stadia, to match our unequalled training facilities, plus it seems we are willing to "view" our wage structure.

    So! Part of the clubs progression is to have acquired these players to do a job and in some small (important small) way help us to achieve what we have. Now however and thanks for their contribution, we can attract and afford a better quality player to take us the next level/stage of THFC's/Poch's progression/philosophy. So as a result of these players and 2 or 3 others we now need to cash in on them!

    Harsh? Maybe, but football is and I'm sure they will get by on their next 3+million£ contract.

    By moving these peripheral, spent or disheartened players on we could raise close to 200m. 200m that could be reinvested 4-5 better players to strengthen the squad and take us to the next level. An as peripheral/spent or disheartened players their sales departures will not necessarily upset the equilibrium of our the squad or regular starting 11. Footballers understand the business of football! If they see x leaving but being replaced by xx, and know it has been done to benefit the club/team and therefore them having a better chance of trophies and continued success then by nature a top sports-person is selfish and will be accepting.

    Forgive my long-winded post, rant if you prefer, but we are moving forward as a club and the likes of Nkoudon, Sissoko, Lamela (had plenty of time to prove himself) Lorente, Aurier (poor player imo) Onomah, Toby and Danny (because they want away) plus Dembele because at 30 if Poch thought he was going to be as influential as some, and I agree, as he has been these past years, he would not be considering selling!

    My point! Football is a multi-billion£ business therefore there is no time for sentiment if as a club we are serious about making our mark! 5 peripheral uninspiring players out. Two who want away and one who (Poch knows) will be spent in 18 months from now = 200m!
     
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  15. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    Quality over quantity , State of the Art Training Facilities and Stadiums Don't win Titles - the 1st team and options on the bench do
     
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  16. antony Member

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    Ultimately Yes! But what the state of the art training facilities and a 62,000 seater stadium can do is help persuade a player that Poch wants, signing for us.
     
  17. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    Sentiment doesn't have much to do with footballing decisions, rather pragmatism. There certain hinge players whom we can afford to let go; the Nkoudou, Llorente, Onomah...ones who haven't really contributed anything to our squad. After that, we also have some decent squad members, ones who participated in 15 or more games for us when they were healthy. The Lamela, Aurier, Sissoko....all are necessary in having a good squad. We've already paid the fee to have them at our club, some we should have passed on...but we won't recoup any of their original fees. On top of that, Poch has invested time in coaching them and adjusting them to the culture of our squad.

    If we're looking to move forward, we can't be taking several steps going backwards. New players need the time to adjust and gel with the team, we'll be better off investing in 2 to 3 top quality players to add our already strong squad.
     
  18. Felon82 Well-Known Member Blogger

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    Tottenham boss Mauricio Pochettino has cast fresh doubt over his Spurs future after calling on chairman Daniel Levy to be “brave” and “take risks” in order to ensure the club reaches the next level.

    “You need to be brave,” said Pochettino. “In this type of situation being brave is important and you need to take risks. It is the moment in which the club needs to take risks.

    “We need to talk a lot with the club. I have a very clear idea of what we need to do. I don’t know if the club will agree with me or not but we are going to talk to create the new project or what I think we need to do together again to try and improve.”

    “We are working with Steve,” said Pochettino. “The World Cup only can confirm your idea about a player. It is so dangerous to go and scout players in the World Cup because if a player is good, how after are you going to sign him?

    “Sometimes you need to anticipate and say 'OK this player can be good for us' and then he goes to the World Cup. But you need to sign before the tournament starts because he is doing well and then you will have a lot of competition if they are good.

    “We are thinking and trying to anticipate because it will be difficult if not at the World Cup.”

    And he believes getting their business done early and allowing the team more time to bond and get used to their new surrounding in the summer is key to continuing their upward curve.

    “When you miss a few months in this competitive league it is so difficult to reduce the gap,” he added.

    “We had many problems, not only with Wembley but It’s not the right way for the club to start if you want to win big things."



    Suprised the Loyalists didn't scream at Poch for such talk?
    But as has been proven it has been just that - Talk.
    He himself has said now it's going to be difficult because anyone of any notes price will rise after a WC putting us out of contention, a new project based on risk and being brave is not hoping that we can find a couple players in just over 3 weeks when the WC finishes and bed them in.
    Poch even spoke about the negative effect of signing players so late (although he was so calm and happy at the time).
    So what are we doing any different from seasons past?
     
    Last edited: June 21, 2018
  19. Remy Uwilin

    Remy Uwilin Active Member

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    Things don't always have to gloom and sad all the time. You ask any rational person, and yes they'll say; bring in the best quality of players early. This is part of life, we don't always get what we want...we have to be pragmatic. There's progress being made, breaking the wage structure was a big step forward. Extending the contracts of our most valued players is also important, that'll even bold well in recruiting top quality of players to join our squad.

    There's still time to improve our squad, I as a fan believe that Poch will make the right decisions and bring in good quality of players who will fit his scheme. There will always be negatives to emphasis, but also there are positives taking place; it never hurts to look at the brighter side.
     
  20. Cheshuntboy Guest

    I don't think people who question Levy/ENIC's commitment to improving the team are gloomy or sad; I think they're mostly angry because two Spurs sides in the past seven or eight years have seemed to be on the verge of real success, and both fell back, mainly because of poor or non-existent investment on the part of the owners. I don't suppose Redknapp actually wanted Nelsen and Saha but at least they were free, whereas Sissoko, Aurier, Llorente et al have wasted a fair chunk of Pochettino's kitty without bringing anything to the party, hence last season's decline from the previous year on every measure. I won't be sad if all Pochettino's 'brave' words prove to be empty bravado, I'll be furious.
     
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